Should they just stop face and heels?

[Jason]

Hear me out, I think faces and heel's are one of the focal points of wrestling, BUT they also restrict people from doing what they are capable of. MOST wrestlers work better in the ring when they are faces, it's a heel's job to get his ass handed to him, basically.

Especially nowadays, when a heel somehow even gets a sniff of a pop, they push him down or make him un-interesting. Back then, the fans decided who to like, not WWE. They decided that they liked Stone Cold and were a huge influence behind his push. That's what made him the legend he is, today. WWE don't do this anymore, when the fans turn them face (MVP), they have them turn into an ass-kisser, slapping hands and they practically change his whole gimmick and eliminate what purpose the crowd cheered for them, in the first place. Austin's gimmick didn't change, he didn't slap hands, he was always a bad ass and that's why he was so over. He wasn't kissing ass, he didn't become a goody two shoes. It's no wonder that they can't build any top stars anymore, when they backtrack when somebody is getting good pops.

So I think heel and face roles shouldn't restrict ring-work. I think that faces and heel roles shouldn't restrict or change your character. I'm not saying that you should still hate on the crowd when you're a face, but I'm saying that you shouldn't kiss their ass, either. Teaming with faces/heels should be the only difference IMO. Thoughts?

[wrestlecrapcrap]

No, I can't stand TNA where they think they above the oldest tradition in the wrestling book and not having true face/heel dynamics. It's ridiculous.

It leads to storylines making no sense, and it means the matches are harder to follow. I like that a heel will control the match, work rest spots and a face will make a comeback and shine for example. When I see it happening, I know where the match is. When it's all up in the air, it's too much effort to think and leads to me not bothering to watch.

[Jason]

Jan 20, 2010 6:34:31 GMT -5 wrestlecrapcrap said:

No, I can't stand TNA where they think they above the oldest tradition in the wrestling book and not having true face/heel dynamics. It's ridiculous.

It leads to storylines making no sense, and it means the matches are harder to follow. I like that a heel will control the match, work rest spots and a face will make a comeback and shine for example. When I see it happening, I know where the match is. When it's all up in the air, it's too much effort to think and leads to me not bothering to watch.

But you always know that's will happen. That's my problem with it. The heel beats them down and the face comes back. That's why it's so predictable IMO.

[Bam Neeley]

Personally I like the TNA way of not drawing a clear line between heels and faces. During the matches the other guy should play as a heel and the other should be a face who makes a comeback and saves the day, it would be disorientating otherwise.

But I think there should be bad ass tweeners and faces who have attitude and aren't all jolly good old Billy boys. Watering down a bad ass heel after he turns is just something I can't figure out.

[Deleted]

The more traditional face/heel conflict is what sells the PPVs to be honest.

I think it's a key reason why TNA sells so few of them. TNA has roughly 1/3 the viewers of WWE, yet has roughly 1/10th as many PPV buys.

[Bub (BLM)]

They should never, ever do away with faces and heels. Even the original ECW, as rebellious as it was against pro wrestling standards still had clear-cut heels and faces. As has been said already, good vs. evil sells.

[brettappedout (BLM)]

Jan 20, 2010 15:14:18 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

They should never, ever do away with faces and heels. Even the original ECW, as rebellious as it was against pro wrestling standards still had clear-cut heels and faces. As has been said already, good vs. evil sells.

This.

[King Boo]

Jan 20, 2010 15:14:18 GMT -5 Bub (BLM) said:

They should never, ever do away with faces and heels. Even the original ECW, as rebellious as it was against pro wrestling standards still had clear-cut heels and faces. As has been said already, good vs. evil sells.

Exactly. Good vs. evil is the whole core of wrestling stories, sans the few times we get the "respect/want to prove something" type angles.

[Deleted]

Without faces and heels there isn't a storyline, and without stories there's honestly no reason to watch wrestling. Most matches are not able to stand on their own.

[xxshoyuweeniexx]

Jan 20, 2010 15:32:54 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

Without faces and heels there isn't a storyline, and without stories there's honestly no reason to watch wrestling. Most matches are not able to stand on their own.

Pretty much. I mean TNA at least has good matches with its midcard, WWE...eh not as much.

With that being said I hate it when TNA does it (which is my main problem with it along with the crowd), and if WWE did it, it would just confuse the hell out of people and turn people off to the product. You think the Minnesota crowd was bad? You ain't seen nothing yet when there's no heel/face line. Silence and dead chants for everyone!

[corndog]

Hate to say this, but Austin still worked face in his matches. His character didn't change much, but the style he worked matches did. Actually that is why I loved his match with Bret Hart at WM13 so much. In Bret's book he said the way he worked with Austin made the crowd go from cheering Bret to cheering Austin, and it wasn't just the sharpshooter at the end. I thought he was being cocky, so I re-watched the match,it's truely odd watching the crowd turn on Bret and cheer for Austin more and more through out the match as Bret works the match as a heel and Austin a face. Austin was popular, but Bret was still more popular going into to match, at the end it was the complete opposite.
So no matter how much of a badass the face is, and how many other faces he beats up, you still have to use a face/heel match formula to truely get the crowd behind you.

[Psychoblue]

I despise it in TNA, and I'd despise it in WWE, too.

You can have heels who have issues with one another, but you should never do away with alignment entirely. As someone else said, good vs evil sells.

[Crazy Diamond]

I used to think they should take the approach of AJPW (circa early to mid 90s) and have heels and faces, but in a more realistic approach. Keep the over-the-top ish to a minimum, but that may not work here. At the very least, I wish they could go back to how they treated faces and heels in 2000. You had more variety in personalities back then. I don't think wrestling is quite ready to move away from faces and heels but if the WWE wants to be more entertainment than sport then they don't have much choice.

[Fiddleford H. McGucket]

Honestly, I'd say no. It's not really for the changes that would have to take place but moreso WWE's own failings in the writing dept. In order for an unaligned roster to work there would have to be more diversity and personality in the roster to begin with. As it stands now there are just too few superstars that can get ANY reaction to screw that up by having the face/heel dynamics muddied or done away with.

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

Being an "edgy tweener" isn't isntant gold. To me, the main reason the Stone Cold character didn't flop was because of how amazing a wrestler/performer Austin was. And his face incarnation was as pure a babyface as one could find, aside from the beer- which in itself was kissing up to the crowd. When he'd guzzle it and spray it around, it was quite a visual.

There was a clear cut line with him- Austin was the everyman hero, and Rock/Dude Love/Vince/everybody else were the villians keeping him down. The storyline was different, but the dynamic was the same old thing. So yeah, you've got to have wrestlers that go out of their way to be loved and hated, otherwise it'll all become very bland.

[The Ichi]

I think the answer is to have more dominant heels (that aren't hosses).

[Dynamite Kid]

It needn't be so obvious who is who, but doing away with face and heel is like doing away with the ring. You may as well invent a new sport or entertainment form.

[Big L]

No