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Post by -Lithium- on Oct 1, 2006 7:41:12 GMT -5
Why was kayfabe still such a big deal even after Vince admitted that it was fake in 85 or so and called it Sports Entertainment?
I mean I know they are just gonna break kayfabe in the ring and stuff all the time but I remember reading about how terrible that Duggan/Shiek police incident where they were pulled over in a car today while still fueding was to WWF or whatever...why? Vince himself said it was fake...
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Matt Rogers
King Koopa
member is currently offline <stalking Emma Watson>
Omae wa mo shindeiru.
Posts: 11,869
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Post by Matt Rogers on Oct 1, 2006 7:43:09 GMT -5
Yeah, but by basically admitting to kids that it's "fake", you're killing it for them. While older people might not mind that it's pre determined, younger ones do, I think.
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Post by -Lithium- on Oct 1, 2006 7:44:28 GMT -5
Yeah, but was the big deal about the Sheik/Duggan incident, after they pretty much admitted it was fake and was "sports entertainment"?
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STMP
Hank Scorpio
Wild and Only 50
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Post by STMP on Oct 1, 2006 7:50:35 GMT -5
Yeah, but was the big deal about the Sheik/Duggan incident, after they pretty much admitted it was fake and was "sports entertainment"? Wasn't that incident the cause for breaking kayfabe? Anyway, the two were complete opposites in the ring. Duggan the patriotic American and Sheik the evil Iranian. Those two smoking medicine in a car, is the worst publicity you could get for pro-wrestling. |
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algertman
Hank Scorpio
Heroes Die. Legends Live Forever.
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Post by algertman on Oct 1, 2006 7:55:52 GMT -5
Look at this way. It's no idfferent than actors breaking charecter in a play. You're suppose to keep the illusion going.
we all know it's fake
just like every other show on TV
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Post by Loki on Oct 1, 2006 8:32:06 GMT -5
Didn't the Sheik/Duggan incident happen many years before Vince admitting it was "fake"?
Anyway, breaking kayfabe was and still is a big deal because wrestlers are "on stage", playing their roles, so anything not "fitting" the role hurts the flow and the enjoyment of the show.
When Matt Hardy ranted about Lita "was coming home to him", while she was married (on screen) with Kane, he basically killed the whole Kane-Lita-Edge-Hardy storyline.
I'm probably one of those old school fans who somewhat misses the whole kayfabe wall around the business.
I'm fully aware it's impossible (and pretty stupid) reverting to the 80s kayfabe, but IMO WWE need to stop the "worked-shoot" trend. After all, the matches are staged and we all know that, but we don't need reminders of the "fakeness" of the business.
How can I enjoy a grudge feud between, let's say, Orton and Cena, if I can easily find out they're best friends backstage?
Wrestling won't ever be like "any other TV show" as long as the competition is presented as REAL.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Oct 1, 2006 8:33:29 GMT -5
The fact is, children were less likely to hear about the Duggan/Shiek incident just like they were less likely to hear about any remarks by Vince outside of his WWF announcer role.
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Erik Majorwitz
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
I don't have a PS3.
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Post by Erik Majorwitz on Oct 1, 2006 9:00:57 GMT -5
Wrestling is fake?
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Post by Cousin Judge on Oct 1, 2006 9:07:42 GMT -5
Dude, we're SUPPOSED to believe it's real. Otherwise what is the point? If you don't suspend disbelief while watching it we might as well not bother.
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Post by Topher is Human on Oct 1, 2006 9:20:54 GMT -5
It's still real to me dammit...
Come on it took how many posts for this?
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Post by darrenstarr on Oct 1, 2006 10:56:34 GMT -5
the concept of "sports entertainment" came about for 2 reasons
1. during the steroids case...they admitted it wasnt a real sport and therefore should not be covered under sports drug laws
2. in most US states boxing and wrestling promoters must pay a state tax. by declaring that they are neither boxing or wrestling they can avoid paying the taxes and thus saving money
Vince only did it to save his ass and save money
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Post by Smark4lyfe on Oct 1, 2006 13:23:29 GMT -5
Look people want belive it's real and I want to belive Baseball is real...
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Post by KB Klash is nWo 4 Life on Oct 1, 2006 14:02:20 GMT -5
Look people want belive it's real and I want to belive Baseball is real... Ive been saying baseball is fake for years. I want to go to a baseball game and start a "boring" chant. |
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Corporate H
Grimlock
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Post by Corporate H on Oct 1, 2006 14:14:38 GMT -5
WWE never admitted it was fake. They just called it entertainment just like basketball is entertainment.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 1, 2006 14:22:20 GMT -5
I believe that wrestling should drop any last remains of kayfabe as soons a possible. Vince speaks of wanting WWE programing to be viewed as compatition for other shows on TV, but he still uses the stupid carny kayfabe idea that's been around for years. It's not enough to admit that wrestling is fake, they most admit that the performers are just that, worker/actors playing roles. Finally they need to admit that Raw and Smackdown are TV shows that get a ppv advertisement once everyother month, not some sort of spontaneous event that just happens to get filmed each week. Give the directors, camara operators, writers and production crew credit. Admit that they are just as opportant as the in ring workers. I just can't see the whole kayfabe is needed to keep the illusion going thing. Kids learn that their favorite super heros airn't real at somepoint, so one can not use that as a valid argument for kayfabe.
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nisi
Vegeta
Da Bears
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Post by nisi on Oct 1, 2006 16:33:24 GMT -5
But "sports entertainment" is not the same thing as abandoning kayfabe. Even in reality TV shows we know there are re-shoots and scripts and whatnot, but reality TV fans watch because it's presented as real. Sports entertainment was a business move to avoid taxes and fees, not a storyline development, and I say we need more kayfabe not less. WWE is already too influenced by TV writers.
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Post by Loki on Oct 1, 2006 16:33:37 GMT -5
I believe that wrestling should drop any last remains of kayfabe as soons a possible. Vince speaks of wanting WWE programing to be viewed as compatition for other shows on TV, but he still uses the stupid carny kayfabe idea that's been around for years. It's not enough to admit that wrestling is fake, they most admit that the performers are just that, worker/actors playing roles. Finally they need to admit that Raw and Smackdown are TV shows that get a ppv advertisement once everyother month, not some sort of spontaneous event that just happens to get filmed each week. Give the directors, camara operators, writers and production crew credit. Admit that they are just as opportant as the in ring workers. I just can't see the whole kayfabe is needed to keep the illusion going thing. Kids learn that their favorite super heros airn't real at somepoint, so one can not use that as a valid argument for kayfabe. I see your point, but how could Vince convincingly "sell" his product if he admits it's just a staged event like an episode of Friends or Beautiful? Pro Wrestling, as bastardized as it has become, CAN'T get away for good from the illusion that the competition and the fights are real (or real-ish). Sure, it'd be stupid using the strict kayfabe of the 80s, but the remaining meaning of the show will die if Vince kills the last remains of that illusion. How idiotic would be openly advertising a "fight" between two actors? |
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Post by Magneto on Oct 1, 2006 17:07:16 GMT -5
Why was kayfabe still such a big deal even after Vince admitted that it was fake in 85 or so and called it Sports Entertainment? I mean I know they are just gonna break kayfabe in the ring and stuff all the time but I remember reading about how terrible that Duggan/Shiek police incident where they were pulled over in a car today while still fueding was to WWF or whatever...why? Vince himself said it was fake... If kayfabe was still strong, guys like Shelton, Haas, and many others would be pretty over with the crowd because kayfabe made it easier for fans to get behind wrestlers without idiot commentators ruining it. The Attitude Era and Tough Enough changed wrestling fans' perception on wrestling forever here in America. |
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Post by -Lithium- on Oct 1, 2006 22:02:25 GMT -5
I never said "why do they still act like its real on TV". I just said why was that (the Duggan/Shiek thing) such a big deal if Vince had already admitted that it wasnt real...
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Post by acropolis619 on Oct 1, 2006 22:06:15 GMT -5
Yeah, but by basically admitting to kids that it's "fake", you're killing it for them. While older people might not mind that it's pre determined, younger ones do, I think. This is very true. I still regret turning my 9 year old cousin into a hardcore smark. He just wasn't ready for it and I think i may have taken away all of his zeal for wrestling. |
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