Maniac Mitch
Mephisto
Mary Droppins? ...well I thought it was funny
Posts: 669
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Post by Maniac Mitch on Mar 21, 2010 16:42:46 GMT -5
I still maintain having this match at all is a mistake. Maybe theyll prove me wrong and top their first WM match, but Taker's physical condition is deteriorating at a rapid pace. Now I'm all about matches not having to be crazy physical or fast paced to be good if the story is right. If this had been the first ever meeting at Mania between the two, they could get away with a match based mostly on psychology, but last year they set a blistering pace having one of the best Mania matches certainly in recent memory if not ever. The chance of them outdoing what they have done is minimal, but the chance of them coming up short is much bigger. This is a match where the expectations are going to be too high even for these two to reach.
The fact that HBK's career is on the line and that that angle has been minimized in favour of the streak shows that any chance of this being a match based on emotion and atmosphere has a good chance of backfiring. The streak is great for suspense, but they've rung that bell once before with Shawn. The law of diminishing returns is going to kick in.
The real story to this match is Shawn's dilemma. Can he do what nobody else has been able to do, what he himself has tried and failed: can he end the Undertaker's streak with the threat of his own career ending in defeat hanging over his head like the Sword of Damacles?
I'm really hoping I'm wrong on this and I'll be the first to admit it if/when that happens. I hope they knock it out of the park. But judging from the build up, I still have my doubts.
I still believe HBK vs. Taker should have been a one time only encounter at Wrestlemania. Think about what happened when Hogan and Andre faced off at Wrestlemania 4. You ended up with two major names wasted on the biggest card of the year because they thought it worked so well the first time, they could just do it again and get the same result. Atmosphere and context counts for something and I'm not feelin' it this time. Austin and Rock were able to top themselves, but they were the two hottest names in the business and were both in their prime for Mania 17. Both Shawn and Taker's best days physically are behind them and the story just isn't there for this one.
Again, I really hope I'm wrong on this. Maybe somebody has and ace tucked up their sleeve? How many times has Taker pulled off a Wrestlemania miracle when a stinker was predicted(Batista and Mark Henry come to mind).
EDIT: I just remembered it'll be No DQ, so there might be hope for something inventive to set it apart. Fingers crossed.
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Post by Jason on Mar 21, 2010 16:45:39 GMT -5
The video is TOO damn long! I remember after the chamber PPV, they showed it on all 3 shows, for two weeks. It's like a 15 minute promo.
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Post by hajimenoippo on Mar 21, 2010 16:50:02 GMT -5
Jeez, kids nowadays have no patience. They've built it since december, and it's had great moments of making you think the match wouldn't happen.
Edge/Jericho has had the same amount of Buildup from December till Now...
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Mar 21, 2010 16:54:14 GMT -5
This has been virtually a year of build up. The story is in what has already been done, and it accelerated around Royal Rumble time. Now it's just a case of making them both look strong in order to sell the match. We know what the match is about, there is a logical reason that has been established. Shawn's emotional downward spiral, and then recovery and back to confidence, where Taker has shown some slight fear.
I'm not really sure how they make more of a deal of Shawn's career. He is given equal time in the build up packages, with highlights of his career, and it is always mentioned in the match run down. What else do they need to do? Have him cut a promo every week and say 'MY CAREER IS ON THE LINE DONTCHA KNOW??!!?' it doesn't need to be done. The story is about how Shawn was so obsessed with the streak that he was willing to put his career on the line.
This is a story that rivals anything in the so called glory days of wrestling, it's been fantastic. Expertly booked.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Mar 21, 2010 16:57:22 GMT -5
Maybe they figure last year's match was so good that the rematch pretty much sells itself? Honestly, the reason I think they're even bothering to do this is that when they first began to build this, Mania was looked pretty awful so they were hoping for another bailout. Granted, I have no hopes for this actually being good. Taker hasn't had a good match since the one with Shelton Benjamin like three weeks after last year's match. This year's Mania is the strongest in years. They have no injuries to big stars, and they have been able to build exactly how they want to as a result. This rematch was always planned. You could tell on the Smackdown tenth anniversary show when Shawn stared Taker down before tagging him in that they wanted to build anticipation again. And Shawn isn't coming back for a DX run this time if he loses. Certainly not at Summerslam anyway. I have no doubt that he might wrestle more matches in the future, but one time deals. The days of seeing him on Raw every week as a wrestler will be over this time.
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jamielowndes {N}
Unicron
The following post has been paid for by the Nexus World Order
Posts: 3,240
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on Mar 21, 2010 16:57:48 GMT -5
All the promos needed was Native Son. I absolutely LOVED this song in any of the promos they used it in. The ending is just surreal.
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Hanzo
Dennis Stamp
"You want Cena to go to ECW?!"
Posts: 4,666
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Post by Hanzo on Mar 21, 2010 17:21:28 GMT -5
Jeez, kids nowadays have no patience. They've built it since december Actually, you could say it's been building since January 2007.
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SlimTrip
AC Slater
f*** This Company
Posts: 221
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Post by SlimTrip on Mar 21, 2010 17:52:23 GMT -5
I thought they were really on to something after I saw that promo with the Placebo song. It's been old hat ever since unfortunately. I'm not hating it though, it just seems like they could do more.
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Post by Robbymac on Mar 21, 2010 17:55:25 GMT -5
Granted, I have no hopes for this actually being good. Taker hasn't had a good match since the one with Shelton Benjamin like three weeks after last year's match. You realize Shawn hasn't had a Wrestlemania match that wasn't spectacular in seventeen years right? In that time he's taken Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Mr. McMahon, John Cena, & a 59 year old Ric Flair and gotten MOTY candidates out of them. If Undertaker can walk his ass to the ring...then Shawn will take care of the rest, and the match will once again leave us breathless.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Mar 21, 2010 18:25:32 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just poor at analysing wrestlers, but I haven't really seen the so called 'bad' in Taker's matches.
He seems just the same to me, doing all the right things. If he moves a bit slower it doesn't affect his ability to tell a story, and he still has his entire moveset before his hip apparently limited him so much.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Mar 21, 2010 18:36:25 GMT -5
Granted, I have no hopes for this actually being good. Taker hasn't had a good match since the one with Shelton Benjamin like three weeks after last year's match. You realize Shawn hasn't had a Wrestlemania match that wasn't spectacular in seventeen years right? In that time he's taken Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Mr. McMahon, John Cena, & a 59 year old Ric Flair and gotten MOTY candidates out of them. If Undertaker can walk his ass to the ring...then Shawn will take care of the rest, and the match will once again leave us breathless. What if it didn't leave us breathless the first time? Last year's match was the most overrated match in 'Mania history.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Mar 21, 2010 19:07:22 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Spankymac, I thought it was a really good match but, this might sound 'smarkish' to some, it seemed very similar to some of the really good matches you see on a pretty regular basis in Ring Of Honor to me.
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Post by maximilian on Mar 21, 2010 19:16:14 GMT -5
This year's Mania is the strongest in years. They have no injuries to big stars, and they have been able to build exactly how they want to as a result. [...] I agree, but it could have been even stronger. Edge-Jericho didn't need the title. Having Punk drop it to 'Taker in the fall was a mistake. He should be defending and possibly retaining against either Rey or 'Taker. (I've also thought about Sheamus as the guy to beat 'Taker, but I think he has great potential as a face, so I wouldn't want to risk the fans never forgiving him. Punk, on the other hand, would become the biggest heel on the planet if he isn't already.) Nor would I have had JeriShow drop the tag belts to DX. We're getting Edge-Jericho with a less-than-100% Edge, and ShowMiz vs. Morrison/Truth when we could have gotten JeriShow vs. Edge/Christian. I also agree with those who feel that 'Taker-Michaels shouldn't be happening at all.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Mar 21, 2010 19:26:50 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Spankymac, I thought it was a really good match but, this might sound 'smarkish' to some, it seemed very similar to some of the really good matches you see on a pretty regular basis in Ring Of Honor to me. It WAS a good match, I'll give it that, but it was far from a "breathtaking spectacle" or the "match of the decade" like some people called it.
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Post by Robbymac on Mar 21, 2010 19:30:14 GMT -5
You realize Shawn hasn't had a Wrestlemania match that wasn't spectacular in seventeen years right? In that time he's taken Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Mr. McMahon, John Cena, & a 59 year old Ric Flair and gotten MOTY candidates out of them. If Undertaker can walk his ass to the ring...then Shawn will take care of the rest, and the match will once again leave us breathless. What if it didn't leave us breathless the first time? Last year's match was the most overrated match in 'Mania history. Opinions are a beautiful thing aren't they? Your opinion that it wasn't all that great is no more valid then those of the vast majority who rate it so highly. I've watched them all. I've rated them all (check out last year's Wrestlemania Match Ranking countdown at 411mania *cheap plug*). I've got it solidly at number two. So the only people overrating this match are those who feel its the best match in Mania history.
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BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
Posts: 17,424
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Mar 21, 2010 19:30:47 GMT -5
The first Taker/HBK match is the WWE equivalent of putting a decent looking girl into a group filled with ugly people.
It looks far better than it is simply by comparison; the rest of the XXV card was meh.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Mar 21, 2010 19:32:22 GMT -5
The first Taker/HBK match is the WWE equivalent of putting a decent looking girl into a group filled with ugly people. It looks far better than it is simply by comparison; the rest of the XXV card was meh. This is also very true. The thing of it is, it was the best match on a weak card. If the match were rated out of that context, it's a good Raw main event, nothing more.
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Post by Robbymac on Mar 21, 2010 19:43:09 GMT -5
The first Taker/HBK match is the WWE equivalent of putting a decent looking girl into a group filled with ugly people. It looks far better than it is simply by comparison; the rest of the XXV card was meh. This is also very true. The thing of it is, it was the best match on a weak card. If the match were rated out of that context, it's a good Raw main event, nothing more. A good Raw main event? C'mon now. Wrestlemania last year was largely considered a dud due to the big giant crap Orton and Trips laid in the ring in the main event. Last I checked that match was AFTER Taker-HBK. It wasn't like I, and the majority of people who thought it was the classic that it was, didn't decide after the match "oh wow, Taker-HBK was really incredible" Go back and read the Wrestlemania thread from last year during that match. People were marking out like crazy during the match. I remember actually breaking out into a sweat watching the match, and needing a cigarette when it was over because I was so physically drained from watching it. The match was incredible rather it took place at Wrestlemania or a house show. The fact that the show was awful has NOTHING to do with people's opinion of it.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Mar 21, 2010 19:45:54 GMT -5
This is also very true. The thing of it is, it was the best match on a weak card. If the match were rated out of that context, it's a good Raw main event, nothing more. A good Raw main event? C'mon now. Wrestlemania last year was largely considered a dud due to the big giant crap Orton and Trips laid in the ring in the main event. Last I checked that match was AFTER Taker-HBK. It wasn't like I, and the majority of people who thought it was the classic that it was, didn't decide after the match "oh wow, Taker-HBK was really incredible" Go back and read the Wrestlemania thread from last year during that match. People were marking out like crazy during the match. I remember actually breaking out into a sweat watching the match, and needing a cigarette when it was over because I was so physically drained from watching it. The match was incredible rather it took place at Wrestlemania or a house show. The fact that the show was awful has NOTHING to do with people's opinion of it. Almost the entire content of the match was "big move, kickout, shocked face, repeat" repeated ad nauseum. There's nothing entertaining about that at all, and the people who tout the "great psychology" of the match must not have watched it. It was the spottiest match I've seen in years.
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Post by maximilian on Mar 21, 2010 19:49:51 GMT -5
I can understand why people loved it -- it was a Wrestlemania match between two legends that lasted half an hour and saw them kick out of each other's finishers. But to my mind, that's all it was.
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