Sell me on the Austin/McMahon alliance

[erik316wttn]

Ok, I know that I'm in the minority with this stance, but I really didn't like the Austin/McMahon alliance in 2001. It made very little sense for Austin to turn on The Rock after their WM 19 match. It made even less sense for him to allign with the man who was his sworn mortal enemy for the previous three years. Seriously, I don't think I could just bury the hatchet that quickly with a man who spent pretty much the entire past three years trying to destroy me personally and professionally. I couldn't get past it.

Now, had there been a better buildup toward the alliance between the two of them, I could MAYBE have bought it if it was done correctly. However, out of the blue made no sense whatsoever.

Yes, it led to some pretty funny skits with Kurt Angle, but other than that it bugged me the entire time.

So sell me on it: Why was it good, and why did it make sense?

[The Tank]

Austin knew his time in the spotlight was coming to an end, and would do anything to keep it, even ally with Vince McMahon.

That's really the easiest explanation for it.

[Ben Wyatt]

Mar 21, 2010 21:38:52 GMT -5 erik316wttn said:

Ok, I know that I'm in the minority with this stance, but I really didn't like the Austin/McMahon alliance in 2001. It made very little sense for Austin to turn on The Rock after their WM 19 match. It made even less sense for him to allign with the man who was his sworn mortal enemy for the previous three years. Seriously, I don't think I could just bury the hatchet that quickly with a man who spent pretty much the entire past three years trying to destroy me personally and professionally. I couldn't get past it.

Now, had there been a better buildup toward the alliance between the two of them, I could MAYBE have bought it if it was done correctly. However, out of the blue made no sense whatsoever.

Yes, it led to some pretty funny skits with Kurt Angle, but other than that it bugged me the entire time.

So sell me on it: Why was it good, and why did it make sense?

It was good because it lead to the 2 man power trip with Triple H. (Though I do have a problem with Austin's alliance with Triple H. They basically traded attempts at killing each other...and then.....they're buddies)

Their pairing was gold. H and Austin running crazy, with Vince as the evil puppet master. I always wondered what was the plan had Triple H not hurt himself.

[The Tank]

Mar 21, 2010 21:45:53 GMT -5 Ben Wyatt said:

Mar 21, 2010 21:38:52 GMT -5 erik316wttn said:

Ok, I know that I'm in the minority with this stance, but I really didn't like the Austin/McMahon alliance in 2001. It made very little sense for Austin to turn on The Rock after their WM 19 match. It made even less sense for him to allign with the man who was his sworn mortal enemy for the previous three years. Seriously, I don't think I could just bury the hatchet that quickly with a man who spent pretty much the entire past three years trying to destroy me personally and professionally. I couldn't get past it.

Now, had there been a better buildup toward the alliance between the two of them, I could MAYBE have bought it if it was done correctly. However, out of the blue made no sense whatsoever.

Yes, it led to some pretty funny skits with Kurt Angle, but other than that it bugged me the entire time.

So sell me on it: Why was it good, and why did it make sense?

It was good because it lead to the 2 man power trip with Triple H. (Though I do have a problem with Austin's alliance with Triple H. They basically traded attempts at killing each other...and then.....they're buddies)

Their pairing was gold. H and Austin running crazy, with Vince as the evil puppet master. I always wondered what was the plan had Triple H not hurt himself.

Supposedly, it was going to go all the way to WrestleMania X8, culminating with Face HHH vs. Heel Austin for the WWF Title.

[Evilution E5150]

it gave us Angle in a childs cowboy hat, greatest moment ever!

[Magician under the moonlight]

Mar 21, 2010 21:47:44 GMT -5 The Tank said:

Mar 21, 2010 21:45:53 GMT -5 Ben Wyatt said:

It was good because it lead to the 2 man power trip with Triple H. (Though I do have a problem with Austin's alliance with Triple H. They basically traded attempts at killing each other...and then.....they're buddies)

Their pairing was gold. H and Austin running crazy, with Vince as the evil puppet master. I always wondered what was the plan had Triple H not hurt himself.

Supposedly, it was going to go all the way to WrestleMania X8, culminating with Face HHH vs. Heel Austin for the WWF Title.

I was actually thinking that HHH would have the Kurt angle role in the invasion storyline.

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

Mar 21, 2010 21:58:43 GMT -5 Magician under the moonlight said:

Mar 21, 2010 21:47:44 GMT -5 The Tank said:

Supposedly, it was going to go all the way to WrestleMania X8, culminating with Face HHH vs. Heel Austin for the WWF Title.

I was actually thinking that HHH would have the Kurt angle role in the invasion storyline.

Nah, probably the Jericho role. The booking team loved them some HHH-Rock.

[rnrk supports BLM]

I'm really surprised by all the love the Austin heel turn gets on these boards, since even WWE seemed to acknowledge that the angle pretty much failed when they immediately turned Stone Cold face again post-Invasion.

From a smarkish perspective, the turn was set up well and freshened up Austin's increasingly stale character. But from a markish outlook, the angle was an utter disaster, because EVERYONE KEPT CHEERING AUSTIN. If no one wants to boo you, then it doesn't matter if you're better at playing the heel, you're the face.

It'd be the equivalent of Hogan turning heel and starting the nWo at Wrestlemania VI, right after losing to Warrior. Sure, his character was just past its peak and needed a change, but the fans weren't ready for it yet. It was too much, too soon, and faded away ignominiously before the year's end.

[fw91]

who cares, if it didn't make prefet sense. it was oretty darn funny. austin and angle competing for vince's effection

[Hugh Mungus]

If you read "Ring of Hell", the author claimed that Trips tried to bury Austin via the heel turn. I can understand Triple H trying to hold back those he feels is a threat to him, but for the author to accuse him of trying to sabotage Austin's run? On a side note, the author DID name The New Age Outlaws' shoot interview as one of his sources, so the credibility level went down a couple of notches.

Looking back at WM17, I noticed the foreshadowing of the heel turn: McMahon telling Cole, "You want shocking? I'll give YOU shocking", as well as Austin looking at himself in the mirror before the match, and Heyman saying that Austin will do anything to win the WWE Title, even if means siding with Mr. McMahon.

For better or for worse (for some fans, it's the latter), Austin introduced the wrestling world to the "WHAT?" chant. And now some people are claiming that the "WHAT?" chant is the single worst thing to happen in pro wrestling.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I thought the entire thing was just weird. It'd help if they had really worked to set it up at all, but Austin eliminating like 15 guys from the Rumble is not compatible with him having lost it. It just doesn't work.

Though what was far, far stupider was the sudden Austin / Angle / Vince turn at the end of the year. Just... Not at all set up, never rationalized, never really even brought up. It's like months of character development for all three just vanished.

[The Corporate Strudel]

Mar 22, 2010 0:40:28 GMT -5 Lizuka #BLM said:

Honestly, I thought the entire thing was just weird. It'd help if they had really worked to set it up at all, but Austin eliminating like 15 guys from the Rumble is not compatible with him having lost it. It just doesn't work.

Though what was far, far stupider was the sudden Austin / Angle / Vince turn at the end of the year. Just... Not at all set up, never rationalized, never really even brought up. It's like months of character development for all three just vanished.

I think it started well and endly super poorly, but that was more about the Invasion angle falling apart than anything, really.

The original turn was brilliant and they did, kinda-sorta hint at it in the Austin-Rock build. Mentally, Austin was uncertain that he could beat the Rock. Cut an awesome promo in the dual-interview about how he "HAD to beat The Rock" and came off far less confident and cocky than pre-surgery Austin.

Then, in the day-to-day build-up, Rock was pushed to give everything he was taking from Austin. Austin stunned The Rock because Angle hit Deborah, The Rock stunned Austin right back. Austin hit Rock's beer when they were "celebrating" together, Rock hit Austin's beer right back.

Before, only base heel tactics were allowed for anyone to get one over on Austin. Nobody stood up man-on-man against, NOBODY. That was the whole point of Austin's reign. Now The Rock was just as good or better and it freaked Austin out. He felt he HAD to win the match so he HAD to turn to Vince; a deal with the devil.

They continued that whole character arc into Invasion with Austin being less than confident that he could stand-up to the WCW or lead the WWF. He still had it in him to come back and stun half the roster, but he was slipping. Then he was paranoid that Vince was less than confident about him.

It led to The Rock coming back to lead WWF, which was great character-wise because he was still the man that Austin felt he couldn't beat.

Of course, they went another direction with the feuds involved. Heel-Austin and Face-Angle didn't work when the crowd no longer considered their loyalty to WWF more paramount to their liking of the individuals on the roster, and they forced WWF to turn everyone on a dime. It was silly. Didn't really work. Even with Flair involved.

[Hobby Drifter]

At the time, my friends and I were joking around and trying to figure out what it would take to get the crowds to boo Steve Austin. We couldn't think of anything. Apparently, neither could the writers.

I recall that our first thoughts after Austin sided with Vince were, "Did Vince just turn face? Did the Rock turn heel and we missed it?"

[Bo Rida]

Mar 22, 2010 0:36:29 GMT -5 Hugh Mungus said:

Looking back at WM17, I noticed the foreshadowing of the heel turn: McMahon telling Cole, "You want shocking? I'll give YOU shocking", as well as Austin looking at himself in the mirror before the match, and Heyman saying that Austin will do anything to win the WWE Title, even if means siding with Mr. McMahon.

They also made a big deal about Austin using the million dollar dream, I think it was meant to show his desperation or something.

I always thought it was just that they couldn't continue fighting and could achieve more together.

[Hugh Mungus]

I'm beginning to think that the inVasion angle was really the WWE's "Plan B" after Trips and Benoit were sidelined with injuries.