King of Fighters XIII is out: Mr Karate is back!

[N E O G E O B O Y S]

So yeah, the game was released in japanese arcades yesterday, and with it, we saw tons of surpises, for example, something that I think has never seen in a 2D fighting game before, alternate costumes















Fatal Fury Team Ending

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}

[MolotovMocktail]

Did they go back to the established team format this time?

[N E O G E O B O Y S]

The format never left (well, except XII) so I don't understand your question

I mean, now we have full teams, but the team edit has always existed since 95

[MolotovMocktail]

I meant XII. When that came out, I was disappointed that SNK abandoned it, and hoped they would go back for future games.

And can I see a breakdown of the roster and who's on what team?

[N E O G E O B O Y S]

Well

Japan Team: Kyo, Benimaru and Goro
Art of Fighting Team: Ryo, Robert and Takuma
Fatal Fury Team: Terry, Andy and Joe
Ladies's Team: King, Yuri and Mai
Elisabeth Team: Elisabeth, Shen Woo and Duo Lon
Yagami Team: Iori, Mature and Vice
Psycho Soldier Team: Athena, Kensou, Chin
Ikari Warriors Team: Ralf, Clark and Leona
VINTAGE! Fatal Fury Team: Kim, Raiden/Big Bear, Hwa Jai
K' Team: K', Maxima and Kula
Ash doesn't have a team, and the bosses are Saiki (somo guy who looks similar to ash) Dark Sakai (Sakai + Mukai] and Dark Ash (Sakai + Mukai + Ash)

Here yo could watch all the characters with their respectives Sprites, theme songs and teams

Also, the 31 Neo Max

[MolotovMocktail]

They brought back a lot of the original teams, it seems (Benimaru and Goro all but disappeared lately), and the VINTAGE FATAL FURY [/Cole] team is interesting...I believe this is Hwa Jai's first appearance since Fatal Fury 1.

[Red Impact]

Jul 15, 2010 11:33:27 GMT -5 N E O G E O B O Y S said:

something that I think has never seen in a 2D fighting game before, alternate costumes

Street Fighter 4 beat it there.

[Lionheart]

Jul 15, 2010 18:28:42 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

Jul 15, 2010 11:33:27 GMT -5 N E O G E O B O Y S said:

something that I think has never seen in a 2D fighting game before, alternate costumes

Street Fighter 4 beat it there.

Well, maybe he isn't counting SF4 as a true 2D fighting game, since it has 3D characters usually moving along a 2D plane.

[N E O G E O B O Y S]

Street Fighter IV is much 2D as I am

Also, creating alternate costumes in polygon models is way more easy than a sprite, also, in KOF XIII are free, I still can't believe that there's people who pay 320 points only for 5 costumes

[thwak is T.hawk]

what's the explanation for vice and mature coming back?

[Red Impact]

Jul 15, 2010 20:02:13 GMT -5 N E O G E O B O Y S said:

Street Fighter IV is much 2D as I am

Also, creating alternate costumes in polygon models is way more easy than a sprite, also, in KOF XIII are free, I still can't believe that there's people who pay 320 points only for 5 costumes

To me, no 3D movement = 2D fighting game. It doesn't matter how they did the sprites, a 3D fighting game has things like, you know, side steps and motion on multiple planes. The sorts of things that 2D fighting games are generally lacking. Tekken, Soul Caliber, and Power Stone are all 3D fighters. Street Fighter 4 is as much a 3D fighter as Madden is a shoot-em-up.

It also doesn't matter if the costumes were DLC, or how difficult it would be to make them, although I'd be highly dubious of the claim that it's easier to computer animate 2D costume changes than a polygon model.

[Red Impact]

Jul 15, 2010 22:26:33 GMT -5 thwak is T.hawk said:

what's the explanation for vice and mature coming back?

Can't say for this game, but generally when they bring back dead characters in this series, it means the installment is a dream fight of sorts, and those appearances are non-canon.

[hajimenoippo]

It looks awesome, cant wait for ps3 release

[N E O G E O B O Y S]

Jul 15, 2010 22:28:20 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

Jul 15, 2010 20:02:13 GMT -5 N E O G E O B O Y S said:

Street Fighter IV is much 2D as I am

Also, creating alternate costumes in polygon models is way more easy than a sprite, also, in KOF XIII are free, I still can't believe that there's people who pay 320 points only for 5 costumes

To me, no 3D movement = 2D fighting game. It doesn't matter how they did the sprites, a 3D fighting game has things like, you know, side steps and motion on multiple planes. The sorts of things that 2D fighting games are generally lacking. Tekken, Soul Caliber, and Power Stone are all 3D fighters. Street Fighter 4 is as much a 3D fighter as Madden is a shoot-em-up.

It also doesn't matter if the costumes were DLC, or how difficult it would be to make them, although I'd be highly dubious of the claim that it's easier to computer animate 2D costume changes than a
polygon model.

People never appreciate how hard is to make a sprite

Those KOF ones, are really hard to do because they had to animate them PIXEL PER PIXEL, isn't like they drawn the sprite and then start animating them, we also need to add than KOF sprites has tons of frames (I think that are 600 per character) think that those sprites took them approximately 2 years, and even though they could not created 720p sprites because they don't had money and the process will be more harder

Now, we had to say also that SNK ''cheated'' in the process, because at first they created the poligons, and then they started drawing, this wasn't like the old SNK were they drawn the sprites only with the eye

I'm not saying than creating alternate costumes in 3D models is easy, I know that they are hard, but in sprites is even more hard, there is a good reason of why those are really rare to see

Jul 15, 2010 22:26:33 GMT -5 thwak is T.hawk said:

what's the explanation for vice and mature coming back?

mmm, there's not a good explanation, according to the story text in the official webpage, one day Iori visited Chizuru to her mansion, he saw her deppresed and promised her to return her powers

Leaving the mansion, two shadows surround Iori, they were Vice and Mature, they explained that they wanted to help Iori because ''Those from the Past'' want to stole the power of Orochi, so they would help Iori because in the end, everybody will fight against the guy that they wanted

Also, according to the ending in this game

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}Iori recovers his flames after the death of Ash, so he now has to choice to live with the flames and being cursed forever with the orochi, or live without them, Iori choose the first while the 2 womens just smile

I would say that they are dead, but since they are members of the orochi how never dies, they could ''resurrect''

[Red Impact]

Jul 15, 2010 23:47:19 GMT -5 N E O G E O B O Y S said:

Jul 15, 2010 22:28:20 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

To me, no 3D movement = 2D fighting game. It doesn't matter how they did the sprites, a 3D fighting game has things like, you know, side steps and motion on multiple planes. The sorts of things that 2D fighting games are generally lacking. Tekken, Soul Caliber, and Power Stone are all 3D fighters. Street Fighter 4 is as much a 3D fighter as Madden is a shoot-em-up.

It also doesn't matter if the costumes were DLC, or how difficult it would be to make them, although I'd be highly dubious of the claim that it's easier to computer animate 2D costume changes than a
polygon model.

People never appreciate how hard is to make a sprite

Those KOF ones, are really hard to do because they had to animate them PIXEL PER PIXEL, isn't like they drawn the sprite and then start animating them, we also need to add than KOF sprites has tons of frames (I think that are 600 per character) think that those sprites took them approximately 2 years, and even though they could not created 720p sprites because they don't had money and the process will be more harder

Now, we had to say also that SNK ''cheated'' in the process, because at first they created the poligons, and then they started drawing, this wasn't like the old SNK were they drawn the sprites only with the eye

I'm not saying than creating alternate costumes in 3D models is easy, I know that they are hard, but in sprites is even more hard, there is a good reason of why those are really rare to see

I never argued that making a sprite was easy, so I don't know where this whole "I don't appreciate it" business is coming from. I said I don't buy the reasoning that animating in 3D is, in your words, "way more easy." SNK does visually fantastic work, but you pretty much demean Capcom's work there.

And I say this knowing people who work in both mediums.

As for why we don't see it, it's business. It's a game art style that has fallen quite out of favor and is niche now, so you don't see it often.

I also said that I find it doesn't matter in what games are 2D fighters, and that it's the game play that determines it, not the art. If Tekken was cel shaded instead of 3D rendered wouldn't make it a 2D fighter. It's the game play that makes it, not how the company portrays the fighters. Hence my statement that Street Fighter 4 had alternate costumes in a 2D fighter.

[AriadosMan]

So, is the 2-D fighting game now a viable commercial genre once more? Because forcing everything into a Tekken template was rather limiting.

[N E O G E O B O Y S]

Jul 16, 2010 0:04:05 GMT -5 Red Impact said:

Jul 15, 2010 23:47:19 GMT -5 N E O G E O B O Y S said:

People never appreciate how hard is to make a sprite

Those KOF ones, are really hard to do because they had to animate them PIXEL PER PIXEL, isn't like they drawn the sprite and then start animating them, we also need to add than KOF sprites has tons of frames (I think that are 600 per character) think that those sprites took them approximately 2 years, and even though they could not created 720p sprites because they don't had money and the process will be more harder

Now, we had to say also that SNK ''cheated'' in the process, because at first they created the poligons, and then they started drawing, this wasn't like the old SNK were they drawn the sprites only with the eye

I'm not saying than creating alternate costumes in 3D models is easy, I know that they are hard, but in sprites is even more hard, there is a good reason of why those are really rare to see

I never argued that making a sprite was easy, so I don't know where this whole "I don't appreciate it" business is coming from. I said I don't buy the reasoning that animating in 3D is, in your words, "way more easy." SNK does visually fantastic work, but you pretty much demean Capcom's work there.

And I say this knowing people who work in both mediums.

As for why we don't see it, it's business. It's a game art style that has fallen quite out of favor and is niche now, so you don't see it often.

I also said that I find it doesn't matter in what games are 2D fighters, and that it's the game play that determines it, not the art. If Tekken was cel shaded instead of 3D rendered wouldn't make it a 2D fighter. It's the game play that makes it, not how the company portrays the fighters. Hence my statement that Street Fighter 4 had alternate costumes in a 2D fighter.

But still, Street Fighter is not a 2D game when we talk about graphics (that's why I'm talking about, I know that the gameplay is 2D) and the costumes are part of the graphic, not part of the gameplay, that's why I said that, the first Virtua Fighter Pretty much is a 2D game just because there's no sidestep, unless you execute some move that throw the opponent into other plane

Jul 16, 2010 2:16:31 GMT -5 AriadosMan said:

So, is the 2-D fighting game now a viable commercial genre once more? Because forcing everything into a Tekken template was rather limiting.

The 2D genre has always been viable, tons of people think that street fighter revived the genre, that's a lie, the genre revived Street Fighter

After the close of co-op, Capcom decided to not create more fighters (Except the epic fail called Capcom Fighting Jam) between the 2002 and the 2008, tons of companies made s***loads of money with the genre in Japan

Arc System Works made tons of money with Guilty Gear
SNK with KOF XI, and now with 2002UM
Examu had TONS of money thanks to the Arcana Heart Saga, to the point than in a short lapsus, went to create the latest installament in Samurai Shadown to create THEIR OWN ARCADE BOARD

And there are others companies who I forget, like Melty Blood

Capcom saw all this and discovered that in the arcade business there was still money to gain, so that's was the reason of why the launched Street Fighter IV, Tatsunoko vs Capcom and now Marvel vs Capcom 3

In the States I still don't think that the genre is that viable, KOF XII was a complete failure (well, that was totally SNKP fault) and Blazblue had decent sales even though people still treat it like an OTAKU GEEMU

Part of the sucess of Street Fighter IV was thanks to show the game similar to Street Fighter II, so people who played it in the arcades when were young but now with enhanced graphics recognized it, if they released something like Street Fighter III I could tell you that the game will not have the same success

But the genre has been always viable, the thing is that now the western audiences now plays the genre, but without them all the companies will be fine, even Capcom would create tons of money only releasing the game in Japanese Arcades, but now they also could create even more money in the States

Capcom knew really well when to play thier cards

btw




Lol Zack Ryder

[Bang Bang Bart]

Gotta love how the Hero/Japan team's ending once again has:

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}Kyo & Iori getting ready to fight and it just ends.

I'm not complaining, but hooray for consisitency.

And I hope to god this is better than the pile of crap that was KOFXII, and that it comes over stateside for everyone to enjoy.

[N E O G E O B O Y S]

Well, that is his iconic ending so I found it amazing too, btw, the Ash Tale is very well detailed, IMO is better than the Orochi Saga, hell, I find that the NESTS saga could have been the best story in a fighting game if weren't for KOF 2001 when EOLITH pretty much killed the saga

Anyway, here is the plot with the ending

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}Apparently, Those From the Past (TFTP) are a clan of powerful people originated from Western Europe led by a being named Saiki. In fact, they can be considered the Western counterpart of the Orochi clan, as both Orochi and Saiki are divine beings known as Gaia's Will. Unlike Orochi who has the power to distort space, Saiki has the power to distort time.

TFTP wanted Orochi's power to open the Time Gate (the gate we saw in the Boss Stage), which requires a lot of energy to do so. The reason they wanted to open the Time Gate is so that Saiki can travel back to the past to rewrite history, as many members of TFTP were wiped out in a war by humans (speculated to be Elizabeth's ancestors). However, when the door of the Time Gate closes before Saiki can even reach the past, it would create a time paradox, thus it would cause Saiki's existence to cease. So in order to ensure that the gate stays open when Saiki is time travelling, the power of the Three Sacred Treasure is needed.

Saiki ordered Ash, who would later be revealed to be his direct descendant, to steal the Three Sacred Treasures from Kyo, Iori and Chizuru. Ash succeeds in stealing the latter two's treasures, but it was revealed that he never really intend to help his ancestor in his plan to change history. One of the reasons is probably because he fears that if history is changed, then Elizabeth, whom he viewed as a sister figure, would ceased to exist. The reason for him to steal the treasures is to gain Saiki's trust so that he can get near him.

When Rose congratulates the winner of the tournament, Saiki and his remaining followers set their plan into motion. Saiki uses his power to freeze time, causing the surrounding environment and people (with the exception of the KOF participants) to stop moving. Because only two of the Three Sacred Treasures were collected, Saiki orders his followers to go to the Time Gate and use their powers instead along with the other two treasures to ensure the the Time Gate is open. However, Mukai wishes to stay behind so that he can deal with the KOF participants in his master's place. Despite Mukai's display of loyalty, Saiki is annoyed by Mukai for disobeying his order and proceeds to kill him, reducing him into a pile of bones. Saiki then transforms into a red demonic looking creature and decides to use the KOF participants as a sacrifice to Orochi in order to increase its power to open the Time Gate.

After a massive battle, the KOF participants managed to overcome Saiki. Despite this, Saiki taunts them that the more they struggle against him, the more power they would provide to open the Time Gate. However, things does not go as planned for Saiki when he was informed by Botan that the door of the Time Gate is closing. Shocked by this turn of event, Saiki deduces that more sacrifice is needed. Before he could even proceed further, Saiki is blindsided and has what appears to be his soul absorbed by Ash, whom noticed that his guard is down during the distraction.

Shocked by Ash's betrayal, Botan demands an explanation from him, to which he nonchalantly replies that TFTP should have perished a long time ago just as stated by history. Before he could say more however, Ash suddenly went into a trance as his entire body is enveloped with dark aura, revealing that Saiki's soul has managed to overcome Ash's willpower and possessed his body. The resulting possession causes a powerful energy explosion, which blows away Botan. Refusing to let his plan fail, Saiki plans to use Ash's body (seems like his original body is destroyed) to travel through the Time Gate to complete his plans. The KOF participants follow Saiki and engages him in one final showdown, which ended with Saiki defeated again.
With the last ounce of his strength, Saiki attempts to cross the Time Gate when its door is closing again. When he almost succeed in reaching the door, Ash uses his remaining willpower to stop the body from moving further. Realizing what's happening, Saiki warns Ash that if they don't cross the Time Gate now, their existence would eventually perish due to the time paradox. Unfazed by the warning, Ash nonchalantly tells his ancestor that this suits him just fine.

After Saiki perished while screaming for his life, Ash was approached by Elizabeth.
He tells Elizabeth that things didn't go as well as he planned as the results could have been better. Puzzled by what Ash says, she asked for the meaning behind his words. Ash then explains that since Saiki no longer exists due to the time paradox, it wouldn't be long before he himself would perish. Realizing the truth, Elizabeth couldn't accept what would eventually happen and told Ash that she is here because she wanted to bring him back and live like how they used to during their younger days. Realizing his time is short, Ash apologizes to Elizabeth as he fades away from existance.

Shortly after Ash perished, everything returns to normal as Rose continues her speech to congratulate the winners of the tournament. Meanwhile, in an unknown location, a soldier reports to Heidern there was a time rift spreading at the location of the KOF Tournament. Heidern comments that Ash's actions have saved the present world. He then deduces that Ash didn't do it for the world's sake, but for the sake of protecting his own pride. Heidern then laments that since Ash had ceased to exist, no one would know the truth behind his actions as their memories of him would eventually perish as well.

[waluigi]

I ain't buying this unless I see this dude in the game: