Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 23:47:45 GMT -5
Kinda surprised I've not seen a thread for this. Movie's out tomorrow (well, midnight showing is going on right now), so who all's going to see it?
Planning to myself. The fact that the reviews are all over the place is kind of worrying, but I'm trying to be optimistic - at least stuff like the change to firebenders and the racebending have managed to be less offputting to me as I've learned a bit more about the intentions behind them.
One last thing for the record, though - to me it's Avatar first and foremost. Cameron's bitch-fit over something he wasn't actually able to copyright is really just another reason to hate the guy.
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Post by "The Rated XXX Superstar" Jed on Jun 30, 2010 23:54:16 GMT -5
M. Night Shyamalan's career in short...
The Sixth Sense-good
Unbreakable-pretty good
Signs-had redeeming qualities
The Village-not good
The Happening-utterly terrible
Forgive me if I don't have high hopes.
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Post by rrm15 on Jun 30, 2010 23:58:37 GMT -5
....whoa. The reviews are BAD. I wasn't expecting that, it looks like a lot of fun.
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Post by Orange on Jul 1, 2010 0:07:08 GMT -5
What a tweest!!
I'll probably wait for it on Blu-Ray, but I am interested in the movie.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Jul 1, 2010 0:12:02 GMT -5
The real reason Cameron wanted "the name" was so that people wouldn't associate this pile with his movie.
Lower RT ratings than Twilight=instant death to all but the most devoted fans.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 1, 2010 2:37:49 GMT -5
God damn it, M. Night! I just got back from watching the movie(2D version, avoided the 3D version like the plague after reading so many reviews that said the 3D sucked and the screen looked like someone grabbed your 3D glasses and smudged their fingers all over the lenses), and while I think it is at least SOMEWHAT watchable, I....just....wow.....he changed SOOOOOOOOOOOO many things and crammed way too much into the 1 hour and 40 minutes of the movie. There was no way they would be able to fit even half of the first season into that amount of time. They needed this movie to be over 2 hours long. 2 hours and 20 minutes would've been a perfect run time for this film. Before I list all the changes made to things, I will say that I think they did all these changes just to fit everything into the short amount of time. Now, onto what they DID change, and I'll try and remember as much as possible, be warned, this is gonna be a LOOOOONG list: {Spoiler} - Everyone says Aang's name wrong, they say it like Ong. - Everyone says Sokka's name wrong, they say the So part like in soda. - Iroh's name isn't said like eye-row, but like ear-row. - Aside from Appa and Momo, there are no chimeras seen, though Sokka does mention Tiger Seals early in the film. - There is no King Bumi. - There is no Koyishi Island or Suki or Koyoshi Warriors, DESPITE all the cast listings everywhere having someone cast as Suki. - Monk Gyatso isn't an old man, he is relatively young, about in his 30s, they make no mention of his love of making cakes, they don't have his corpse surrounded by a large pile of Fire Bender corpses, and he's black....or something like that, he's a very dark brown. - They pretty much combined all of the episodes set in the Earth Kingdom in the first season into one 10 to 15 minute long segment. - Haru is much younger than he is in the show, plus he looks a lot like a chick. - Instead of just Katara being arrested and sent to the Earthbender prison, Katara, Sokka, and Aang are all arrested. - The Earthbender prison isn't an all metal prison in the middle of the ocean, but instead a bunch of tents on solid f***ing ground. Yes, the Earthbenders could've escaped AT ANY TIME! Hell, there wasn't that many Firebending guards for the prison. - Aang is the one that gives the speech to get the Earthbending prisoners to fight back, instead of Katara. - The Northern Air Temple is empty, instead of housing the Mechanist, his son, and everyone else they knew. - Aang doesn't see the room full of Avatar statues in the Southern Air Temple, instead he sees them in the Northern Air Temple, where he is captured by Zhao's men, instead of getting caught while hunting frozen frogs to cure Katara's and Sokka's illness. - Zhao has no bitching mutton chops. - Ozai doesn't have a badass long beard(despite Zuko holding onto their family picture(that in the show he didn't have till Season 3) in which Ozai does have the bitching beard). - Aang NEVER talks to Roku himself in the movie, instead he freaking talks to Fang, Roku's dragon. Fang doesn't show Aang the Fire Nation's Avatar Temple where Aang goes to speak to Roku for the first time. - Aang seems to be able to enter the Spirit World whenever he wants to in this movie, which he couldn't do in Book One of the show. - Aang struggles to learn Waterbending in the movie, despite him learning it faster than Katara did in the show(he learned how to do the basics from the very first time he tried). - Katara doesn't steal the Waterbending scroll she and Aang uses to learn some somewhat advanced moves from the pirates like in the show, instead she is given the scroll for helping the Earthbending prisoners. - Pakku isn't a dick at first and only agrees to train Aang cause of the Northern Water Tribe's sexist traditions, he agrees to train both of them from the get go. - Pakku looks like Jeong Jeong instead of Pakku. Should be noted that Jeong Jeong doesn't show up at all in the movie. - Katara doesn't take her lesson on healing with Waterbending. - Hell, despite Katara being in Pakku's class, we don't see her train with him at all. - Almost as soon as the Moon Spirit is killed, Yue sacrifices herself to bring it back to life, and Aang isn't there when it dies, so no Koizilla, aka the MOST BADASS PART OF BOOK ONE! - When Zuko captures Aang in the Northern Water Tribe, he hides him in the freaking city itself.... - Since there is no Koizilla/pissed off Ocean Spirit, Zhao isn't killed like he was in the show, instead four Waterbenders come to the bridge, each summon a giant water tentacle, wrap Zhao in water, and drown him in plain view of everyone. - Sozen's Comet isn't coming at the end of the summer, giving Aang only months to master Earthbending and Firebending, it is coming in THREE YEARS. Personally, I think this was a cheap move just to explain away any of the actors visibly aging too much between films. That's all I can remember right now. Keep in mind, a LOT of characters from Book One don't show up, like Bato, Jet, and a few others who would be more important in later books. Sokka and Katara have next to no screen time and have little development. And I was cool with the changing of races in the film until we see the Southern Water Tribe. EVERYONE in the Southern tribe, save for Katara, Sokka, and their Grandma are either Inuit-looking people, or East Asian-looking people. As for the Fire Nation, it was just weird as hell seeing a bunch of clearly Indian people dressed in Chinese armor and clothes and eating Chinese food. On the plus side, the Fire Nation's buildings do look like it is from somewhere in India. Though, weirdly enough, Azula looks East Asian, not Indian.... So....that's it..... At least the movie doesn't have a twist..... But yeah, it is a chaotic mess for people who didn't watch the show, and those that did, it'll probably cause you to go into a seething rage with how much it changed....
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 1, 2010 2:38:00 GMT -5
I've put some spoilers here, but considering the movie is just based off the show, I think anyone who's watched the show knows what's happening, basically.
I'm a big fan of the show, but the movie was, sadly, lacking.
Frankly, you could tell what weighed it down the most; people will go on about the "race lift", or aspects of the script or how characters or things weren't pronounced the same way, but it was a much simpler, narrative-centered reason.
This was supposed to be the first film in a trilogy, yet it spent nearly no time establishing who the hell we were watching.
It jumped from place to place, it moved too quickly, it almost never dwelt on anything to allow it to sink in.
The problem was that Shyamalan and his crew attempted to condense nearly an entire season of a TV show into a single, 100 minute movie, and doing that while retaining character and allowing for development is nigh on impossible.
I don't really know why they did that. Maybe they wanted too much to please the fanbase and include as much of the story of the show as possible, or maybe there's 40+ minutes on the cutting room floor that establishes more about the characters, but nothing's allowed to sink in.
I think if they were really planning for a trilogy, they should've been thinking in a much broader way.
Book One, instead of attempting to rehash every single major plot point of the first season, you should spend the majority of the movie developing your core heroes. Aang, Katara, Sokka, even Appa and Momo; they're the core heroes, they're the ones who'll be there for every movie. Instead, every jump cut served to move them another two weeks into the future, another bunch of miles closer to the North Pole, with little given to flesh them out.
In the meantime, leave Zuko and Zhao as your joint-yet-dueling Big Bads. Leave the Fire Lord masked in shadows, like the show did. Drop hints that Zuko's not all evil, but establish him as a key threat, and Zhao as utterly heartless. Let Iroh be established as the old man who gives off the air of laziness, so that his later moments of badassery are magnified, and hint at what's to come.
Instead, the movie spent too much time trying to say "Zuko's a bad guy, but don't worry, he's really misunderstood!"...if you're building a trilogy, you can tell us that later.
Spend Book One getting your core heroes established and making it clear what a threat and danger the Fire Nation is, THEN spend Book Two expounding on Zuko and Iroh's surrogate father/son relationship (which would make Zuko's turn at the end in Ba Sing Se sting the audience even more), while keeping your already established heroes busy by having them deal with Azula and company. Book Three then brings all the threads together.
I get the feeling like there was some edict to keep this flick as kung fu-centric as possible, to throw in as many references to the 'toon as possible to keep fans happy, but all at the expense of the development of the characters, atmosphere, and pacing.
There were nice scenes, there were some fun moments, but condensing an entire season into 100 minutes, instead of just opting to go a different direction while keeping true to the spirit of the show, absolutely hurt this flick.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 1, 2010 2:55:14 GMT -5
I've put some spoilers here, but considering the movie is just based off the show, I think anyone who's watched the show knows what's happening, basically. I'm a big fan of the show, but the movie was, sadly, lacking. Frankly, you could tell what weighed it down the most; people will go on about the "race lift", or aspects of the script or how characters or things weren't pronounced the same way, but it was a much simpler, narrative-centered reason. This was supposed to be the first film in a trilogy, yet it spent nearly no time establishing who the hell we were watching. It jumped from place to place, it moved too quickly, it almost never dwelt on anything to allow it to sink in. The problem was that Shyamalan and his crew attempted to condense nearly an entire season of a TV show into a single, 100 minute movie, and doing that while retaining character and allowing for development is nigh on impossible. I don't really know why they did that. Maybe they wanted too much to please the fanbase and include as much of the story of the show as possible, or maybe there's 40+ minutes on the cutting room floor that establishes more about the characters, but nothing's allowed to sink in. I think if they were really planning for a trilogy, they should've been thinking in a much broader way. Book One, instead of attempting to rehash every single major plot point of the first season, you should spend the majority of the movie developing your core heroes. Aang, Katara, Sokka, even Appa and Momo; they're the core heroes, they're the ones who'll be there for every movie. Instead, every jump cut served to move them another two weeks into the future, another bunch of miles closer to the North Pole, with little given to flesh them out. In the meantime, leave Zuko and Zhao as your joint-yet-dueling Big Bads. Leave the Fire Lord masked in shadows, like the show did. Drop hints that Zuko's not all evil, but establish him as a key threat, and Zhao as utterly heartless. Let Iroh be established as the old man who gives off the air of laziness, so that his later moments of badassery are magnified, and hint at what's to come. Instead, the movie spent too much time trying to say "Zuko's a bad guy, but don't worry, he's really misunderstood!"...if you're building a trilogy, you can tell us that later. Spend Book One getting your core heroes established and making it clear what a threat and danger the Fire Nation is, THEN spend Book Two expounding on Zuko and Iroh's surrogate father/son relationship (which would make Zuko's turn at the end in Ba Sing Se sting the audience even more), while keeping your already established heroes busy by having them deal with Azula and company. Book Three then brings all the threads together. I get the feeling like there was some edict to keep this flick as kung fu-centric as possible, to throw in as many references to the 'toon as possible to keep fans happy, but all at the expense of the development of the characters, atmosphere, and pacing. There were nice scenes, there were some fun moments, but condensing an entire season into 100 minutes, instead of just opting to go a different direction while keeping true to the spirit of the show, absolutely hurt this flick. Pretty much. We didn't need to see the Earthbender prison, for example. Here is really what we did need to see: - Sokka & Katara finding Aang. - The GAang going to the Southern Water Tribe & finding the Avatar statues. - The GAang meets Suki & the Kyoshi Warriors(you NEED this just cause Suki becomes a recurring character, Sokka's future love interest, and the Kyoshi Warriors are an important plot point in Book 2). - The GAang going to the Fire Nation's Avatar Temple during the Winter Solstice to meet Roku's spirit. - The Blue Spirit(Zuko) frees Aang from Zhao's capture. - The GAang visits the Northern Air Temple, again something you need to do cause it introduces Air Ships, something that is hella important in Book 3, and the Mechanist is very important in Book 3 as well. - The GAang get to the Northern Water Tribe and they do the last 3 episodes of the season. Now, going by that, list, it leaves out King Bumi and Jeong Jeong, who ARE important, don't get me wrong, but at the same time, if any thing could be cut, it is them, despite their effects on the story for the rest of the series.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 1, 2010 3:13:24 GMT -5
I even think you could've changed things up more.
Suki, for example, might have been tough to put in if you wanted to get the Sokka/Yue romance across, and hitting up three Air Temples might have eaten up too much time.
Hell, I'd have even considered making radical alterations to the story, in return for giving more time to fleshing the heroes out and improving the pacing of the film.
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Post by D2: Sweet & Sour Edition on Jul 1, 2010 3:29:45 GMT -5
This saddens me, because I really wanted to see this.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 1, 2010 3:41:50 GMT -5
You know, I was looking at various user reviews, and one person said it best, this is to the Avatar series as Dragonball: Evolution was to the Dragonball series.
That perfectly sums this up.
Also, what makes me even more sad is Appa and Momo look TERRIBLE! And I hoped they would look at least somewhat realistic, but instead they look very fake.
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Post by VengeanceGOD on Jul 1, 2010 4:56:07 GMT -5
You know, maybe it's because I was reading the bad reviews all day and expected it, but I really enjoyed this movie in spite of all of the flaws. Not saying the complaints aren't valid or even untrue, but even with the exposition and horrible choppy editing the film was a lot of fun to watch.
I think if they gave Shaymalan an extra half hour, even, it would've been a better movie. You can see just from watching the film where things had to be cut that were clearly shot. (Aang and Zuko's conversation after the Blue Spirit, for example.)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 5:01:01 GMT -5
{Spoiler} - Everyone says Aang's name wrong, they say it like Ong. - Everyone says Sokka's name wrong, they say the So part like in soda. - Iroh's name isn't said like eye-row, but like ear-row. {Spoiler}While those are changes, they're technically correct.
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Post by VengeanceGOD on Jul 1, 2010 5:03:46 GMT -5
Could you explain how? (Not arguing, I don't know what the language of origin is.)
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 1, 2010 5:03:48 GMT -5
While those are changes, they're technically correct. Even so, for a fanbase that's heard it the other way for years on end, it is weird.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jul 1, 2010 5:07:00 GMT -5
Why open a movie against Twilight?
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Post by celticjobber on Jul 1, 2010 5:09:26 GMT -5
The real reason Cameron wanted "the name" was so that people wouldn't associate this pile with his movie. Before Avatar came out, I assumed Cameron was doing an adaptation of the Nickelodeon cartoon Avatar: The Last Airbender. And even after that, I kinda thought he ripped off the title.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 1, 2010 5:13:04 GMT -5
Could you explain how? (Not arguing, I don't know what the language of origin is.) Most of the names come from Chinese, in which case when you read the actual characters that make up their name, how they say the names for many of the characters in the film IS how their names would be said if you were reading their characters.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jul 1, 2010 5:13:29 GMT -5
Why open a movie against Twilight? Fourth of July weekend. That's why.....
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Grendel
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
But ... why is all the rum gone?
Posts: 17,593
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Post by Grendel on Jul 1, 2010 7:44:12 GMT -5
This saddens me, because I really wanted to see this. Me too. Imagine my surprise when I looked at Rotten Tomatoes and saw how bad the reviews were, then coming here and reading your views. As soon as I heard the man was directing this, I had just one simple request: Don't snork it up. Looks like I missed out on that request. Snork everyone who is responsible for what sounds like an utter mess. Man, this subject material could have been made into a very good movie in the hands of a competent director. This sounds like a complete mess. One of the reasons I took of the weekend from work was to see this, and now that plan is scuttled. Oh well, I guess I always have the Lesnar/Carwin fight. I really wanted to believe that once, just once, M. Night Shammalammadingdong would make a film that I would like. Looks like he has made another turd, and I am one sad panda right now.
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