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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on May 25, 2010 17:09:14 GMT -5
She is pretty bad in the ring. I used to not mind her, but I really just can't like her. I don't know what it is, she's not over, she's not incredibly impressive, she has nothing unique about her and King creaming himself over her in commentary just insinuates that she only has that belt because she looks good. She hasn't deserved it, she hasn't worked hard for it. Nothing. Maryse is not much better but atleast she has personality and the crowd support. Eve has neither and is just your generic face model #4343 that WWE cream over about how "impressive" they've been, when in reality it's nothing compared to what their actual REAL diva wrestlers like Natalya and Gail Kim, when by some miracle, they're actually given a shot, can do. Oh my gosh, please stop talking about Maryse. Flipping your hair and doing some stupid finger thing doesn't equal having personality. And there no other Diva, except maybe Kelly, that King practically messes himself for more than Maryse. And she is really nothing more than a generic bitchy heel diva anyway. And no offense to Gail Kim, but she hasn't exactly been on fire as a wrestler either. And she really doesn't have that personality that you're talking about to hold her up either. You talk about giving Maryse getting a title because she has personality, but then blast the WWE for not giving girls who can actually wrestle titles. Which is it? Giving Divas titles because they have personality or because they can wrestle?
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Post by Psy on May 25, 2010 17:15:30 GMT -5
... (heh....they could give one of them the Backstabber, now that Carlito is gone) ..... They should just do it to their front and call it the Implant DDT. Get it? Get it?
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Post by Rorschach on May 25, 2010 17:18:40 GMT -5
See, to me it's always seems so f*****g asinine to give these ladies who can BARELY work a leglock or do a credible slam/suplex these hugely complicated finishers. Keep it simple, stupid! Look at Maryse and Mickie....they use a simple, but devastating-looking DDT to end their matches. Nothing flashy, nothing intricate....and it gets the job done. These girls that try and ape the Styles Clash, or the Angels' Wings or the Canadian Destroyer....they ought to be instructed NOT to try those moves out until they've mastered more BASIC ones. And hell, since we're only getting 2-3 minutes for each women's match....they don't NEED complex finishers to seal the deal. A quick thrust kick, or even a one-legged Codebreaker type manuver (heh....they could give one of them the Backstabber, now that Carlito is gone) would be more than sufficient to finish one of their matches. I guess my point is....it's not just Eve....ANY of these girls are going to look ridiculous trying those kinds of manuevers when they can't even freakin' do the BASICS right half the time. THe mention of the Canadian Destroyer makes me think you're talking Melina. She does not attempt a Canadian Destroyer. She does an armtrap sunset flip power bomb. The move Rey used on Punk last Sunday? And she does it better than most guys. Eve's dropkicks were pretty lousy, and actually she does have problems with them normally. But I think he finish on Sunday was okay. It seems like it would be as impactful as an X-factor and she turned it over into a roll up pin. My biggest problem with the divas is them running the ropes. They never look natural doing it and so that makes any move coming off the ropes look bad. Ummm...."she does it better than most guys". Which would be whom in the WWE? Mysterio? I call BS on that one. Trevor Murdoch is the only one I can recall trying a full on Destroyer (though I'm likely missing someone) and even he had trouble with it. I think my point still stands. Most of these girls are nowhere NEAR competent enough in the areas of basic ringwork to attempt something as complex as those finishing moves. Out of all the women on the roster, I'd think that only Beth, Melina, Nattie, Gail and Serena have any sort of depth to their training, and I know I'm gonna catch hell for putting Gail in there. Nearly all of the strippers and models they hire are (expectedly, considering their background) awful wrestlers, and none of them NEED these flashy "finishing manuvers" that they're given. I mean, hell....considering the short length of runs on top these days, most of the women don't stick around long enough to WARRANT having any sort of trademark finisher anyway.
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Post by cobrafan on May 25, 2010 17:28:29 GMT -5
Eve is the new Candice Michelle. She's pushed and pushed but fans just don't care. You can hear crickets chirp during her entrance and has ZERO personality in addition to being very poor even by WWE diva standards. She does her finisher and rest of her moves as if she's lost and uncertain on what to do during matches.
I don't think they'll continue the Eve experiment much longer especially once Melina gets back. After that...Eve will either go back to Smackdown or let go.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on May 25, 2010 18:12:04 GMT -5
THe mention of the Canadian Destroyer makes me think you're talking Melina. She does not attempt a Canadian Destroyer. She does an armtrap sunset flip power bomb. The move Rey used on Punk last Sunday? And she does it better than most guys. Eve's dropkicks were pretty lousy, and actually she does have problems with them normally. But I think he finish on Sunday was okay. It seems like it would be as impactful as an X-factor and she turned it over into a roll up pin. My biggest problem with the divas is them running the ropes. They never look natural doing it and so that makes any move coming off the ropes look bad. Ummm...."she does it better than most guys". Which would be whom in the WWE? Mysterio? I call BS on that one. Trevor Murdoch is the only one I can recall trying a full on Destroyer (though I'm likely missing someone) and even he had trouble with it. I think my point still stands. Most of these girls are nowhere NEAR competent enough in the areas of basic ringwork to attempt something as complex as those finishing moves. Out of all the women on the roster, I'd think that only Beth, Melina, Nattie, Gail and Serena have any sort of depth to their training, and I know I'm gonna catch hell for putting Gail in there. Nearly all of the strippers and models they hire are (expectedly, considering their background) awful wrestlers, and none of them NEED these flashy "finishing manuvers" that they're given. I mean, hell....considering the short length of runs on top these days, most of the women don't stick around long enough to WARRANT having any sort of trademark finisher anyway. Trevor did not do a Destroyer. Piledrivers are banned with two exceptions, so why the hell would the Canadian destroyer be allowed? Everyone needs a finisher as far as I'm concerned
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on May 25, 2010 18:12:32 GMT -5
Eve is the new Candice Michelle. She's pushed and pushed but fans just don't care. You can hear crickets chirp during her entrance and has ZERO personality in addition to being very poor even by WWE diva standards. She does her finisher and rest of her moves as if she's lost and uncertain on what to do during matches. I don't think they'll continue the Eve experiment much longer especially once Melina gets back. After that...Eve will either go back to Smackdown or let go. they got a nive reaction on Sunday
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Post by JACK on May 25, 2010 18:17:38 GMT -5
Alleged jiu-jitsu abilities? You know they don't just give out belts for nothing so obviously she knows something since she holds one from Gracie academy. Shes not that f***ing bad people damn! lmao ..and she gets decent pops. I mean what do you want a damn Cena pop? not gonna happen with any of the divas.
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Post by Rorschach on May 25, 2010 18:37:20 GMT -5
Ummm...."she does it better than most guys". Which would be whom in the WWE? Mysterio? I call BS on that one. Trevor Murdoch is the only one I can recall trying a full on Destroyer (though I'm likely missing someone) and even he had trouble with it. I think my point still stands. Most of these girls are nowhere NEAR competent enough in the areas of basic ringwork to attempt something as complex as those finishing moves. Out of all the women on the roster, I'd think that only Beth, Melina, Nattie, Gail and Serena have any sort of depth to their training, and I know I'm gonna catch hell for putting Gail in there. Nearly all of the strippers and models they hire are (expectedly, considering their background) awful wrestlers, and none of them NEED these flashy "finishing manuvers" that they're given. I mean, hell....considering the short length of runs on top these days, most of the women don't stick around long enough to WARRANT having any sort of trademark finisher anyway. Trevor did not do a Destroyer. Piledrivers are banned with two exceptions, so why the hell would the Canadian destroyer be allowed? Everyone needs a finisher as far as I'm concerned Yes, he did. Someone here had a GIF of it as their sig/avatar for a while. EDIT: Found it....and though it wasn't his permanent finisher, he DID try to pull it off. He failed, but he tried. Like I said earlier, finishers are NICE if you can pull them off correctly even 90% of the time. Most of the girls, if the move is anything more complex than a dropkick or DDT, can't do that. And hell, most of them aren't in matches that mean a goddamn thing anyway, so why do THEY need trademark "finishing moves"? You're gonna tell me that Brie and Nikki Bella need to have signature finishing moves too? When the hell are THEY ever gonna get to use them? Not to mention, when they DO, are they going to be able to DO them correctly and NOT embarrass the hell out of themselves and the entire division on national television? Look, I'm all for letting these ladies use SIMPLE moves to end matches. But giving them ultra complex, not to mention HUGELY dangerous "finishing" moves is crazy, IMO.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on May 25, 2010 18:42:39 GMT -5
Trevor did not do a Destroyer. Piledrivers are banned with two exceptions, so why the hell would the Canadian destroyer be allowed? Everyone needs a finisher as far as I'm concerned Yes, he did. Someone here had a GIF of it as their sig/avatar for a while. EDIT: Found it....and though it wasn't his permanent finisher, he DID try to pull it off. He failed, but he tried. You say that's a botched Canadian Destroyer. To me it looks like a botched sunset flip powerbomb. Have you ever seen a Canadian Destroyer where they did the armtrap like he did? The fact he continued using the move and got slightly better with it says to me it's definately the latter move. And the Bellas do sitout facebusters, usually in tandem as their finishers.
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Post by Psy on May 25, 2010 18:54:39 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a sunset-flip powerbomb variant that Murdoch attempted but failed at. Either way it's way too complicated for most of the half-trained Divas to attempt without causing serious injury.
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Post by Rorschach on May 25, 2010 18:57:47 GMT -5
Looked like a botched Destroyer to me. Everyone else seems to be calling that too.
*shrug*
And I think I can be forgiven for not knowing the Bellas had finishers. How often do we get to see them DO that anyway? And can they do it without botching it?
I still don't honestly see them needing finishers, man. It's like the WWE giving Josh Matthews or Grisham finishing moves. To me, the Bellas aren't even wrestlers, that's how little ring time they get. Poor Jillian Hall gets put in that category too, but in her case, she's actually got training and experience, they just NEVER use her outside of skits/sketches. What's her finisher, offhand? I remember her messing up a 450 splash pretty badly one time. Was that it?
For that matter, you know what we should do? Compile a list of all the women's finishers. I know I can't be the ONLY one here who doesn't know what the hell most of these ladies are using as finishers these days.
The ones I know off the top of my head:
Gail Kim: Eat Defeat (that weird ass falling down foot to the jaw "jawbreaker" type move)
Michelle McCool: Faithbreaker (Angel's Wings, right? The move she usually hits, but sometimes misses due to some sort of malfunction between her and her opponent)
Maryse: French Kiss DDT
Natalya: Sharpshooter (when they let her wrestle, which is once in a blue moon)
Beth Phoenix: Glam Slam
And as for the rest.....fill me in, man. Cause I ain't got a CLUE as to what Alicia Foxx, Kelly2, or the rest of them do. I see them "attempt" certain things, but never have a clue what the HELL it is they're going for, as it usually doesn't end up resembling any move I might have seen before.
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jamielowndes {N}
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on May 25, 2010 19:07:22 GMT -5
Looked like a botched Destroyer to me. Everyone else seems to be calling that too. *shrug* And I think I can be forgiven for not knowing the Bellas had finishers. How often do we get to see them DO that anyway? And can they do it without botching it? I still don't honestly see them needing finishers, man. It's like the WWE giving Josh Matthews or Grisham finishing moves. To me, the Bellas aren't even wrestlers, that's how little ring time they get. Poor Jillian Hall gets put in that category too, but in her case, she's actually got training and experience, they just NEVER use her outside of skits/sketches. What's her finisher, offhand? I remember her messing up a 450 splash pretty badly one time. Was that it? For that matter, you know what we should do? Compile a list of all the women's finishers. I know I can't be the ONLY one here who doesn't know what the hell most of these ladies are using as finishers these days. The ones I know off the top of my head: Gail Kim: Eat Defeat (that weird ass falling down foot to the jaw "jawbreaker" type move) Michelle McCool: Faithbreaker (Angel's Wings, right? The move she usually hits, but sometimes misses due to some sort of malfunction between her and her opponent) Maryse: French Kiss DDT Natalya: Sharpshooter (when they let her wrestle, which is once in a blue moon) Beth Phoenix: Glam Slam And as for the rest.....fill me in, man. Cause I ain't got a CLUE as to what Alicia Foxx, Kelly2, or the rest of them do. I see them "attempt" certain things, but never have a clue what the HELL it is they're going for, as it usually doesn't end up resembling any move I might have seen before. McCool also has the big boot, and its the Styles Clash she uses, not the Angels Wings. NOBODY will use the Angels Wings in the WWE. Ever. Kelly has that ridiculous school yard leg drop where she steps up on someones back and drops the leg on their head while theyre on all fours. Im pretty sure Alicia has the scissors kick a la Booker T. Layla has the sitout neckbreaker. (The Lay-Out if you will) The 10 Diva Tag at Wrestlemania had everyones finisher one after the other, thats how I remember these.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 19:13:18 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a sunset-flip powerbomb variant that Murdoch attempted but failed at. Either way it's way too complicated for most of the half-trained Divas to attempt without causing serious injury. That's why Melina still does the leg-split reverse DDT as an alternate. Because someone like Maryse or Layla, for example, might not have the ability to take the move like women like Alicia or Michelle can. There's nothing wrong with Eve trying to have multiple finishers, but the problem is that nothing that she does stands out as a finisher. She's got the moonsault, other moonsault, flip thingy, armbar, and reverse Booger Bomb. Too many moves, and that kind of devalues all of them in terms of who they can be applied on. When you're a face, that's something that you should really strive to avoid.
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DanKirby
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Post by DanKirby on May 25, 2010 19:14:11 GMT -5
McCool also has the big boot, and its the Styles Clash she uses, not the Angels Wings. NOBODY will use the Angels Wings in the WWE. Ever. She did use the Angel's Wings for a short time in Fall 2008; she called it the Wings of Love.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on May 25, 2010 19:51:02 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a sunset-flip powerbomb variant that Murdoch attempted but failed at. Either way it's way too complicated for most of the half-trained Divas to attempt without causing serious injury. only one diva ever uses it and she uses it well. Hell, Melina once reversed out of a Razor's Edge with that and still hit it properly
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2010 19:58:24 GMT -5
McCool also has the big boot, and its the Styles Clash she uses, not the Angels Wings. NOBODY will use the Angels Wings in the WWE. Ever. McCool used the Angel's Wings briefly.
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jamielowndes {N}
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on May 25, 2010 20:23:36 GMT -5
McCool also has the big boot, and its the Styles Clash she uses, not the Angels Wings. NOBODY will use the Angels Wings in the WWE. Ever. McCool used the Angel's Wings briefly. Wow. Her pull from raising the dead is bigger than I thought. I never thought anyone would be able to use any kind of double underhook facebuster due to you know who.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on May 25, 2010 20:32:10 GMT -5
See, to me it's always seems so f*****g asinine to give these ladies who can BARELY work a leglock or do a credible slam/suplex these hugely complicated finishers. Keep it simple, stupid! Look at Maryse and Mickie....they use a simple, but devastating-looking DDT to end their matches. Nothing flashy, nothing intricate....and it gets the job done. These girls that try and ape the Styles Clash, or the Angels' Wings or the Canadian Destroyer....they ought to be instructed NOT to try those moves out until they've mastered more BASIC ones. And hell, since we're only getting 2-3 minutes for each women's match....they don't NEED complex finishers to seal the deal. A quick thrust kick, or even a one-legged Codebreaker type manuver (heh....they could give one of them the Backstabber, now that Carlito is gone) would be more than sufficient to finish one of their matches. I guess my point is....it's not just Eve....ANY of these girls are going to look ridiculous trying those kinds of manuevers when they can't even freakin' do the BASICS right half the time. In all fairness I've seen AJ botch the Styles Clash more than McCool has but yeah.
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on May 26, 2010 1:38:46 GMT -5
I like how they play up Eve having a jui-jitsu background, and then she barely does any jui-jitsu.
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Post by Rorschach on May 26, 2010 1:41:30 GMT -5
I like how they play up Eve having a jui-jitsu background, and then she barely does any jui-jitsu. That's why I'd just give her an ankle lock finisher myself. Something simple and easy to hook in, that she can't mess up too badly. I mean, hell, if she falls down and REALLY locks it in like Angle used to, it would look LEGIT. I just think that weird ass move she was trying to do last night is....it's not right for her.
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