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Post by The Tim Duncan Experience on May 20, 2010 3:18:30 GMT -5
I have to wonder...do even little kids seriously cheer for Cena at this point? There are still way more fans (kids and adults) that seriously cheer for Cena than those who boo him. If you don't believe me, go to a WWE show and notice which T-shirt is selling the best and which wrestler has most of the fans on their feet. (hint: his initials are J.C.) Justin Credible?
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Post by Jason on May 20, 2010 3:21:50 GMT -5
I have to wonder...do even little kids seriously cheer for Cena at this point? There are still way more fans (kids and adults) that seriously cheer for Cena than those who boo him. If you don't believe me, go to a WWE show and notice which T-shirt is selling the best and which wrestler has most of the fans on their feet. (hint: his initials are J.C.) Jim Cornette?
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on May 20, 2010 5:58:01 GMT -5
I have to wonder...do even little kids seriously cheer for Cena at this point? I would think even as a kid I would notice this guy getting booed out of various buildings on Raw and start wondering if this guy sucks. Honestly Cena is basically like Rocky Maivia if Vince kept Rock in that same role and he became a main eventer. Cena's matches are an odd phenomenon. They are quite exciting live, but I can't say that I've ever found myself wanting to rewatch a John Cena match. Once I know that he wins yet again, there's nothing to see there. which is why I'm so strongly against booing Cena. No one thinks cutting the kids favorite's legs out from under him is inappropriate? A little to self centered for me.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on May 20, 2010 6:12:11 GMT -5
I have to wonder...do even little kids seriously cheer for Cena at this point? I would think even as a kid I would notice this guy getting booed out of various buildings on Raw and start wondering if this guy sucks. Honestly Cena is basically like Rocky Maivia if Vince kept Rock in that same role and he became a main eventer. Cena's matches are an odd phenomenon. They are quite exciting live, but I can't say that I've ever found myself wanting to rewatch a John Cena match. Once I know that he wins yet again, there's nothing to see there. which is why I'm so strongly against booing Cena. No one thinks cutting the kids favorite's legs out from under him is inappropriate? A little to self centered for me. It's not that, it's people's genuine reaction to him. If I pay to go see a show, I can boo who I want, because of how I feel, not because it protects anyone's feelings. Anyway, I have a theory that some kids cheer him because he's booed, like it's given him some kind of 'rebel' edge for them. 'People boo him and say he sucks, so I'll cheer him'. That kinda thing. I've always said, if people genuinly don't like him and want him gone, make no noise, don't boo, turn your back on his matches, stuff like that. Would I do that? No, but someone has a stance, follow it through.
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on May 20, 2010 6:48:12 GMT -5
which is why I'm so strongly against booing Cena. No one thinks cutting the kids favorite's legs out from under him is inappropriate? A little to self centered for me. It's not that, it's people's genuine reaction to him. If I pay to go see a show, I can boo who I want, because of how I feel, not because it protects anyone's feelings. Anyway, I have a theory that some kids cheer him because he's booed, like it's given him some kind of 'rebel' edge for them. 'People boo him and say he sucks, so I'll cheer him'. That kinda thing. I've always said, if people genuinly don't like him and want him gone, make no noise, don't boo, turn your back on his matches, stuff like that. Would I do that? No, but someone has a stance, follow it through. kids still like superheroes.
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jamielowndes {N}
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on May 20, 2010 6:55:01 GMT -5
I personally wouldnt boo him, as Ive said before, he plays his role very well, and he has come a long way in the ring. He wont ever steal the show like Michaels, but put him in with a Michaels, a HHH, an Orton or someone of that level and he will more than hold his end of the bargain.
I just think the way he is booked leaves for no suspense.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on May 20, 2010 7:22:07 GMT -5
Kids like superheores, but if anyone else wants to react a different way, it's a free world, they can.
Personally, I'm just indifferent to the guy.
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on May 20, 2010 11:01:47 GMT -5
I personally wouldnt boo him, as Ive said before, he plays his role very well, and he has come a long way in the ring. He wont ever steal the show like Michaels, but put him in with a Michaels, a HHH, an Orton or someone of that level and he will more than hold his end of the bargain. I just think the way he is booked leaves for no suspense. Basically.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 20, 2010 11:38:54 GMT -5
Even though I have somewhat of a soft spot for the loveable jar-head, I still find it funny that despite him being the "face" of the company, since his Main Event push began, he has yet to really win a match at Wrestlemania where most of the fans didn't boo him out of the building. He hasn't had that one iconic Wrestlemania moment where everyone in the building was with him. And I don't remember Hulk Hogan ever having about 50,000 people righteously pissed when he won like Cena did at WM's 22 & 23. Perhaps not, but at least it HAS given us the moments where Cena goes and poses with the "WE HATE CENA" guy while he has a shit-eating grin on his face, and that has to be worth something.
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Post by Chip Jordan on May 20, 2010 12:00:11 GMT -5
As many faults as the guy had - Hogan did get beat down on TV an awful lot. He would get his revenge on PPV of course. Bret always made his opponents look his equal before he won - see Hakushi. And Stone Cold didn't always win.
I don't blame Cena himself. If I was being paid $1million a year and being booked to look like a star every week I wouldn't have many complaints. But the overbooking of the Superman push has hurt the guy.
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Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on May 20, 2010 12:05:32 GMT -5
Hogan was the top babyface in the eighties. Saying Cena is like him and nobody complained about it, is like saying something like... "Hey, did you see the graphics of the new Smackdown game? they suck." "What are you talking about? No Mercy had the exact same graphics and nobody complained about it!" Maybe not the best example, but it's pretty similar. That stuff was the "in" thing to do back then, and back then it was cool. But they took 5 steps forward with "Attitude" and took 10 steps back with the Cena era. As for as Austin being superman, that's hardly the case. Austin was no superhero, he was a badass who did what he wanted, when he wanted. Cena is a goody two shoes who can only connect with the kids who look up to him, and the women who find him hot. The men? He connects with a FEW, but the majority, no. Why do you think the IWC's favourite guys are Edge, Christian, Chris Jericho, CM Punk, etc? Because we can relate to those guys. They're like us. They don't constantly make promises we know they won't break. They don't constantly overcome the odds. They're booked and made look like human beings. It's no wonder Cena cannot connect with the casual audience, they're going about it all wrong. Sure he sells merchandise, but I highly doubt it was anything compared to Austin's or the Rock's. The problem is, Austin and Rock's characters were freshened up every few years. Austin was the badass rebal, then he was the paranoid... WHAT? I said paranoid leader of the Alliance. Then he was Sheriff Austin, and you know, he was always doing something interesting or funny that would make you wonder what he would do next. Same with the Rock. First he was the corporate champion, then he was the lovable comedian guy, then he turned heel with "Hollywood" Rock. Cena? You never wonder what he's going to do next. If anybody told you they did, they're lying and just being ignorant. We all know what is going to happen this sunday at Over the Limit. Cena will lift Batista up in vintage superman fashion after he applies the new finisher, and then he'll FU Adjust his attitude before locking in the dreaded STF U and will somehow make Batista quit by practically hugging him. Okay, maybe the exact thing won't happen, but I gaurantee Cena won't quit. Him in an I quit match is like Rey in a "If Rey loses, he removes his mask" match. There's nothing fresh with Cena. Nothing that will make you tune in the next week. Unless of course you're 7, and you don't have connections with common sense. Or a girl, who just wants to look at Cena, period. I don't know why I tune into Raw at all. I have a handful of favourites there, but I just know nothing cool will happen. I hate Cena, I hate the guest hosts, I hate the commentators and their whacky phrases. But the lifelong fan in me just can't stop watching. I guess I still have hopes that maybe just maybe, they'll pull something interesting out of the bag, like I don't know... Cena saying "I quit" this sunday? Well said. And I am/was like you in a lot of ways. I, however have given up on watching Raw. At a certain point, it just became a habit (maybe 2008). I didn't realy enjoy anything on the show, with the exception of a few minor things and matches. My last shred of hope was when MVP was drafted to Raw last year. That became a failure, and his ME face push was like immediately stopped in favor of a makeshift tag team run with Kool-Aid Henry. With that said, I just no longer have interest in the RAW brand. There's nothing that makes me say "I have to catch Raw every week" NOTHING! Not even my beloved Nattie, or an Undertaker appearance can make me care.
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Post by angryfan on May 20, 2010 12:11:39 GMT -5
Hogan was the top babyface in the eighties. Saying Cena is like him and nobody complained about it, is like saying something like... "Hey, did you see the graphics of the new Smackdown game? they suck." "What are you talking about? No Mercy had the exact same graphics and nobody complained about it!" Maybe not the best example, but it's pretty similar. That stuff was the "in" thing to do back then, and back then it was cool. But they took 5 steps forward with "Attitude" and took 10 steps back with the Cena era. As for as Austin being superman, that's hardly the case. Austin was no superhero, he was a badass who did what he wanted, when he wanted. Cena is a goody two shoes who can only connect with the kids who look up to him, and the women who find him hot. The men? He connects with a FEW, but the majority, no. Why do you think the IWC's favourite guys are Edge, Christian, Chris Jericho, CM Punk, etc? Because we can relate to those guys. They're like us. They don't constantly make promises we know they won't break. They don't constantly overcome the odds. They're booked and made look like human beings. It's no wonder Cena cannot connect with the casual audience, they're going about it all wrong. Sure he sells merchandise, but I highly doubt it was anything compared to Austin's or the Rock's. The problem is, Austin and Rock's characters were freshened up every few years. Austin was the badass rebal, then he was the paranoid... WHAT? I said paranoid leader of the Alliance. Then he was Sheriff Austin, and you know, he was always doing something interesting or funny that would make you wonder what he would do next. Same with the Rock. First he was the corporate champion, then he was the lovable comedian guy, then he turned heel with "Hollywood" Rock. Cena? You never wonder what he's going to do next. If anybody told you they did, they're lying and just being ignorant. We all know what is going to happen this sunday at Over the Limit. Cena will lift Batista up in vintage superman fashion after he applies the new finisher, and then he'll FU Adjust his attitude before locking in the dreaded STF U and will somehow make Batista quit by practically hugging him. Okay, maybe the exact thing won't happen, but I gaurantee Cena won't quit. Him in an I quit match is like Rey in a "If Rey loses, he removes his mask" match. There's nothing fresh with Cena. Nothing that will make you tune in the next week. Unless of course you're 7, and you don't have connections with common sense. Or a girl, who just wants to look at Cena, period. I don't know why I tune into Raw at all. I have a handful of favourites there, but I just know nothing cool will happen. I hate Cena, I hate the guest hosts, I hate the commentators and their whacky phrases. But the lifelong fan in me just can't stop watching. I guess I still have hopes that maybe just maybe, they'll pull something interesting out of the bag, like I don't know... Cena saying "I quit" this sunday? Well said. And I am/was like you in a lot of ways. I, however have given up on watching Raw. At a certain point, it just became a habit (maybe 2008). I didn't realy enjoy anything on the show, with the exception of a few minor things and matches. My last shred of hope was when MVP was drafted to Raw last year. That became a failure, and his ME face push was like immediately stopped in favor of a makeshift tag team run with Kool-Aid Henry. With that said, I just no longer have interest in the RAW brand. There's nothing that makes me say "I have to catch Raw every week" NOTHING! Not even my beloved Nattie, or an Undertaker appearance can make me care. Another point to consider is that Vince knew how to keep Hogan "special", he didn't overexpose him even with a more limited free TV schedule. When I was very young, we got Hogan maybe four times a year for free, so it did feel unique and different. Sure, the SuperHogan thing was a foregone conclusion, but only seeing it every few months made it easier. It meant I could still see the guys I liked like Roberts or Steamboat, while Hogan was the rarity that, even if he wasn't my favorite, was still kinda cool to see pop up. Cena gets more segments on one RAW than Hogan got on free TV in six months at his prime.
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Post by corndog on May 20, 2010 13:01:50 GMT -5
One of the many complaints against John Cena that I don't understand is his Superman push. Sure, he usually overcomes overwhelming odds, but can't the same thing be said for any of the top faces in WWE history. For example, I remember Hulk Hogan winning despite injuries, outside interference, and his opponent cheating. The same could be said for Randy Savage, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels. Then there's Stone Cold. He had Vince McMahon constantly coming up with stipulations that would make it impossible for Austin to win, but Austin usually would find a way. This formula would be repeated in many babyface vs heel boss feuds. How is Cena different from these examples? Why don't I recall many people complaining about Hogan's or Austin's Superman pushes? Would people have the same reaction toward a different superstar if he was booked the same way Cena is? He is booked more like Austin and Hogan than any of those guys, but there are similarities with Bret and Shawn. Micheals and especially Bret were smaller than their opponents, so the overcoming odds made more sense. Infact Bret really was always the underdog and I think that is what made him popular. He upset Flair for the belt, which no one saw coming, at WM10 he won the belt even though all of the propaganda went into Luger. Overcoming the odds means you aren't the favorite, and I would Cena is the favorite everytime. Heck if anything, Sheamus beating Cena for the belt is overcoming the odds. Another point, Cena has already held the WWE title longer than either Shawn or Bret, and I might even dare say combined. As far as Austin and Hogan go, they were much more over than Cena ever will be. Also Austin didn't always overcome and lost to some of McMahon's cronies, and after 3 years at the top he turned heel. Then there's Hogan, yeah I doubt Cena is even a 1/10th of his popularity. The other thing is Vince McMahon constantly gave Hogan fresh competition, he was usually fueding with a different wrestler every few months. With the Rock, well I don't remember too long of period where he was beating everyone. He lost to RVD, Angle and HHH as a face, also he was never face too incredibly long. I believe his longest period as face was 2000-2003, and in 2002 he disapeared to do some movies.
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Super Duper Dragunov
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on May 20, 2010 18:34:39 GMT -5
Hogan was the top babyface in the eighties. Saying Cena is like him and nobody complained about it, is like saying something like... "Hey, did you see the graphics of the new Smackdown game? they suck." "What are you talking about? No Mercy had the exact same graphics and nobody complained about it!" Maybe not the best example, but it's pretty similar. That stuff was the "in" thing to do back then, and back then it was cool. But they took 5 steps forward with "Attitude" and took 10 steps back with the Cena era. As for as Austin being superman, that's hardly the case. Austin was no superhero, he was a badass who did what he wanted, when he wanted. Cena is a goody two shoes who can only connect with the kids who look up to him, and the women who find him hot. The men? He connects with a FEW, but the majority, no. Why do you think the IWC's favourite guys are Edge, Christian, Chris Jericho, CM Punk, etc? Because we can relate to those guys. They're like us. They don't constantly make promises we know they won't break. They don't constantly overcome the odds. They're booked and made look like human beings. It's no wonder Cena cannot connect with the casual audience, they're going about it all wrong. Sure he sells merchandise, but I highly doubt it was anything compared to Austin's or the Rock's. The problem is, Austin and Rock's characters were freshened up every few years. Austin was the badass rebal, then he was the paranoid... WHAT? I said paranoid leader of the Alliance. Then he was Sheriff Austin, and you know, he was always doing something interesting or funny that would make you wonder what he would do next. Same with the Rock. First he was the corporate champion, then he was the lovable comedian guy, then he turned heel with "Hollywood" Rock. Cena? You never wonder what he's going to do next. If anybody told you they did, they're lying and just being ignorant. We all know what is going to happen this sunday at Over the Limit. Cena will lift Batista up in vintage superman fashion after he applies the new finisher, and then he'll FU Adjust his attitude before locking in the dreaded STF U and will somehow make Batista quit by practically hugging him. Okay, maybe the exact thing won't happen, but I gaurantee Cena won't quit. Him in an I quit match is like Rey in a "If Rey loses, he removes his mask" match. There's nothing fresh with Cena. Nothing that will make you tune in the next week. Unless of course you're 7, and you don't have connections with common sense. Or a girl, who just wants to look at Cena, period. I don't know why I tune into Raw at all. I have a handful of favourites there, but I just know nothing cool will happen. I hate Cena, I hate the guest hosts, I hate the commentators and their whacky phrases. But the lifelong fan in me just can't stop watching. I guess I still have hopes that maybe just maybe, they'll pull something interesting out of the bag, like I don't know... Cena saying "I quit" this sunday? very well put. esp. the comparison to Cena's "I Quit" Matches to Mysterio's "Mask" Matches. i was trying to explain to a buddy why there's zero suspense in a John Cena match, particularly this one coming up and that summed it up perfectly.
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Raging_Demons
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Post by Raging_Demons on May 20, 2010 18:53:03 GMT -5
The point I always address when it comes to Cena, a.k.a. his birth name "Kal-El", is that even though at times pro wrestling can be shown as "entertainment" Cena makes it looks COMPLETELY UNBELIEVABLE whenever he competes.
Great example I always cite is the Cena/Umaga "I Quit Match" where Cena used the ring ropes to choke Umaga out.
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Big L
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Post by Big L on May 20, 2010 18:56:55 GMT -5
Yea they pretty much forced us to believe cena can't be stopped
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mrjl
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Post by mrjl on May 20, 2010 19:02:39 GMT -5
The point I always address when it comes to Cena, a.k.a. his birth name "Kal-El", is that even though at times pro wrestling can be shown as "entertainment" Cena makes it looks COMPLETELY UNBELIEVABLE whenever he competes. Great example I always cite is the Cena/Umaga "I Quit Match" where Cena used the ring ropes to choke Umaga out. come on. Any time someone gets up from a plancha driving them into the concrete it's completely unbelievable. Joey Mercury's face is evidence that anytime anyone gets up from a ladder shot is completely unbelievable. All modern wrestling is COMPLETELY UNBELIEVABLE!
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on May 21, 2010 4:07:42 GMT -5
Yeah, at least the ring rope thing was innovative and looked pretty cool.
They've never even screwed him into quitting like Rock/Mankind at the 1999 Royal Rumble, or Rock/HHH on Raw the night after.
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