The Joker is defeated at his own game..

[Yami Daimao]

(CONTAINERS MAJOR SPOILERS. WATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK.)



This is the final scene in the "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" animated film between Batman (Terry McGinnis) and The Joker. I've seen a couple of members here claim how genius Terry handled Joker in this film, so I decided to post it up for others to see.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}He plays mind games with Joker, the one thing Bruce never really did. Also, my favorite line here comes from Terry; "Wait...I like to talk too."

And I agree. It was something fresh and different, and we saw a side of Joker that we've never really seen before.

Discuss.

[John Cena's Boner]

Wasn't that Joker a robot with the original Joker's personality implanted into it? And in the movie, it showed the original Joker being killed by a brainwashed Robin.

[Bang Bang Bart]

Aug 27, 2010 17:27:35 GMT -5 John Cena's Boner said:

Wasn't that Joker a robot with the original Joker's personality implanted into it? And in the movie, it showed the original Joker being killed by a brainwashed Robin.

No, it's

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}actually said brainwashed Robin that has the Joker chip implanted into him, so he becomes the Joker.

[kingfeurio]

I didn't really care for the ending. But I thought the rest of the movie was great. Especiall the scene where

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}Joker and Harley reveal that they've brainwashed Robin into being a little Mistah J.

[The Summer of Muskrat XVII]

Aug 27, 2010 17:32:32 GMT -5 @kingfeurio said:

I didn't really care for the ending. But I thought the rest of the movie was great. Especiall the scene where

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}Joker and Harley reveal that they've brainwashed Robin into being a little Mistah J.

That was just downright disturbing. This movie doesn't get enough love

[itputsthelotion]

THERE AREN'T GOING TO BE ANY FIREWORKS!

[kingfeurio]

Aug 27, 2010 17:34:01 GMT -5 The Summer of Muskrat XVII said:

Aug 27, 2010 17:32:32 GMT -5 @kingfeurio said:

I didn't really care for the ending. But I thought the rest of the movie was great. Especiall the scene where

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}Joker and Harley reveal that they've brainwashed Robin into being a little Mistah J.

That was just downright disturbing. This movie doesn't get enough love

It really was. In my opinion, it's quite a bit better than a few of the live-action films.

The reason I didn't like the ending of this film was because I didn't find it believable. Joker is so egotistical and full of himself that he's not going to believe anything negative said about him, much less by someone who isn't even the real Batman.

[Perpetual Nirvana]

Aug 27, 2010 17:40:27 GMT -5 @kingfeurio said:

Aug 27, 2010 17:34:01 GMT -5 The Summer of Muskrat XVII said:

That was just downright disturbing. This movie doesn't get enough love

It really was. In my opinion, it's quite a bit better than a few of the live-action films.

The reason I didn't like the ending of this film was because I didn't find it believable. Joker is so egotistical and full of himself that he's not going to believe anything negative said about him, much less by someone who isn't even the real Batman.

Yeah, I didn't like his death in the uncut version for a similar reason. He keeps saying "That's not funny..." but really the Joker would find the irony hilarious.

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2010 17:53:37 GMT -5 Perpetual Nirvana said:

Aug 27, 2010 17:40:27 GMT -5 @kingfeurio said:

It really was. In my opinion, it's quite a bit better than a few of the live-action films.

The reason I didn't like the ending of this film was because I didn't find it believable. Joker is so egotistical and full of himself that he's not going to believe anything negative said about him, much less by someone who isn't even the real Batman.

Yeah, I didn't like his death in the uncut version for a similar reason. He keeps saying "That's not funny..." but really the Joker would find the irony hilarious.

See thats what I loved about that moment. The Joker has always been close to death, but its always assumed he knew he would find a way to survive, because, you know, he did. What is so great about the Joker is not just his hilarious and dangerous insanity, but his ability to constantly find a way to survive or escape and be a constant presence as the dark side of Batman's psyche.

What's fantastic about this moment, is the Joker realises he's about to die. Absolutely no way out, no escape plan, no deus ex machina he can pull. He's literally on the verge of certain death, without knowing that his 'backup' plan will work. And in that moment, he doesn't see the funny side. It confirms him as an petty villain, rather than an uber-mensch man beyond the normal concept of humanity. Once faced with the true possibility of absolute death, he's human, scared and vunerable. And I love that.

[kingfeurio]

Aug 27, 2010 18:05:17 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

Aug 27, 2010 17:53:37 GMT -5 Perpetual Nirvana said:

Yeah, I didn't like his death in the uncut version for a similar reason. He keeps saying "That's not funny..." but really the Joker would find the irony hilarious.

See thats what I loved about that moment. The Joker has always been close to death, but its always assumed he knew he would find a way to survive, because, you know, he did. What is so great about the Joker is not just his hilarious and dangerous insanity, but his ability to constantly find a way to survive or escape and be a constant presence as the dark side of Batman's psyche.

What's fantastic about this moment, is the Joker realises he's about to die. Absolutely no way out, no escape plan, no deus ex machina he can pull. He's literally on the verge of certain death, without knowing that his 'backup' plan will work. And in that moment, he doesn't see the funny side. It confirms him as an petty villain, rather than an uber-mensch man beyond the normal concept of humanity. Once faced with the true possibility of absolute death, he's human, scared and vunerable. And I love that.

It was just weird to me considering the Joker snaps his own neck to frame Batman for his murder (great prank, huh?). But on the other hand it's two different Jokers in two different universes (comics and animated series), so I do see your point. In an episode of TAS when he blows up in a blimp (I think it was a blimp, can't remember) he's laughing his ass off the whole time.

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2010 18:14:46 GMT -5 @kingfeurio said:

Aug 27, 2010 18:05:17 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

See thats what I loved about that moment. The Joker has always been close to death, but its always assumed he knew he would find a way to survive, because, you know, he did. What is so great about the Joker is not just his hilarious and dangerous insanity, but his ability to constantly find a way to survive or escape and be a constant presence as the dark side of Batman's psyche.

What's fantastic about this moment, is the Joker realises he's about to die. Absolutely no way out, no escape plan, no deus ex machina he can pull. He's literally on the verge of certain death, without knowing that his 'backup' plan will work. And in that moment, he doesn't see the funny side. It confirms him as an petty villain, rather than an uber-mensch man beyond the normal concept of humanity. Once faced with the true possibility of absolute death, he's human, scared and vunerable. And I love that.

It was just weird to me considering the Joker snaps his own neck to frame Batman for his murder (great prank, huh?). But on the other hand it's two different Jokers in two different universes (comics and animated series), so I do see your point. In an episode of TAS when he blows up in a blimp (I think it was a blimp, can't remember) he's laughing his ass off the whole time.

There is a difference particularly between the comics and TAS I agree. Especially between TKR and TAS. The thing I love about that moment is it is the one moment, pretty much in the entire series, that nods to the audience that the Joker is a human being. A severely messed up human being, but one none the less. I would never judge anyone for preferring the DKR death, as it is awesome, but personally, I like that final exclamation point, of making it clear that for all his evil majesty, the Joker is a cowardly criminal, whose scared of death. In all other situations, I want my Joker the genius criminal enigma, the one criminal who can out-think Batman. But at this death, I love that he's a petty coward. To me, purely personally, it brings his character to a close, especially given his Killing Joke origins as the cowardly comedian.

[kingfeurio]

Aug 27, 2010 18:41:11 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

Aug 27, 2010 18:14:46 GMT -5 @kingfeurio said:

It was just weird to me considering the Joker snaps his own neck to frame Batman for his murder (great prank, huh?). But on the other hand it's two different Jokers in two different universes (comics and animated series), so I do see your point. In an episode of TAS when he blows up in a blimp (I think it was a blimp, can't remember) he's laughing his ass off the whole time.

There is a difference particularly between the comics and TAS I agree. Especially between TKR and TAS. The thing I love about that moment is it is the one moment, pretty much in the entire series, that nods to the audience that the Joker is a human being. A severely messed up human being, but one none the less. I would never judge anyone for preferring the DKR death, as it is awesome, but personally, I like that final exclamation point, of making it clear that for all his evil majesty, the Joker is a cowardly criminal, whose scared of death. In all other situations, I want my Joker the genius criminal enigma, the one criminal who can out-think Batman. But at this death, I love that he's a petty coward. To me, purely personally, it brings his character to a close, especially given his Killing Joke origins as the cowardly comedian.

Well, like everyone else said, it was something new and unexpected, and I guess in the comic book world I should keep in mind that characters are open to whoever is writing them's interpretation. It just had me scratching my head--but it was a lot better than

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}him getting electrocuted off screen. How anticlimactic!

[SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts]

The Robin torture was very effective and freaked me out. That was Joker taken up several notches after being a complete joke, in the New Adventures of Batman. Probably the big reason I didn't like that series was how it changed the Joker from this pyscho to a laughing stock. I didn't really like the reveal to be honest and the end I was meh to.

[Yami Daimao]

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}This Joker was basically Tim Drake "possessed" by the original Joker through a chip, so while it's not technically the actual Joker in body (even though Tim's appearance practically changes to the Joker, pointy nose and all), it's still the same Joker in spirit.

As for the way it went down, sure it made the Joker look vulnerable and actually show signs of fear/panic, but that's the genius of the whole thing (IMO, of course). We're always use to seeing Joker laugh and laugh about practically everything, whether it's a life or death situation, and while that's really great and all, this method was a fresh take on defeating the Joker other than "let's subdue him with gadgets/beatings/structures etc." that we're use to seeing from Bruce. This was more of psychological defeat, which as far as I can remember, is a first. And Terry handled that brilliantly, especially since Terry himself is a bit of jokester by nature, so it wasn't really forced (as opposed to, let's say, Bruce trying to beat him psychologically).

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}As much love as Bruce gets for being the real Batman, the fact is Terry is the new and real Batman (in the Beyond timeline of course), simply because Bruce can't physically take on the role anymore. The fact that he handled the Joker the way that he did, even with Bruce only telling him "he likes to play mind games with words, don't listen to him", proves that Terry makes a great Batman, especially using some methods Bruce wouldn't use. Also, as revealed in an episode of the Justice League Unlimited, Terry is infact, Bruce's biological son. So it makes perfect sense.

And yes, the beginning of this movie is really disturbing all the way around. But that's another reason why I love it. It took the material from Batman: TAS and brought it down to the more darker, and disturbing tone of Batman Beyond.

[Jay Peas 42]

Yeah, that was a pretty awesome way for him to go. Granted, I liked the symbolism of his death at the hands of Magog a little more (In Kingdom Come, after Joker kills Perry, Lois and Jimmy, Magog executes him on his own authority, something neither the state, nor Superman nor Batman could or would do), but that Terry would beat him in his own way with his own games, perfect.

[kingfeurio]

I really want to watch this again now. It's interesting to hear everyone's take on it.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}When I said Terry wasn't the "real Batman", I meant that Joker probably wouldn't see him that way as he wasn't the person who had been his adversary for all those years. But then again, Bruce probably wasn't the same Batman to him anymore either--he, IMO, saw him as a shell of his former self and as a mostly defenseless old man.

And is anyone else pissed that they had Harley Quinn be the grandmother of the Dee Twins? I seriously doubt Harley would EVER move on if something happened to the Joker. He's her puddin' and there's no one else for her.

[Goldenbane]

I dunno about this...I like what Terry did and think it was awesome, but it really wasn't the first time Joker was beaten mentally. In the first season of Batman: TAS, a poor everyman character Joker had been tormenting scared the living shit out of him by threatening to blow him up with one of his own bombs. I believe the speach was something like this:

"It's just you and me, Joker! No heroic ending, no big final encounter with the dark knight! All the papers will say tomorrow is the great Joker was blown to bits...along side some MISERABLE little nobody! Heh heh, it's funny...you see...I can destroy a man's dreams too!"

Joker was pretty much wetting his pants and actually calling for Batman to come help. Batman did eventually show up, and the everyman character revealed the bomb was just a fake "joke" bomb...pissing off the Joker but still having him quiver behind Batman for protection.

[Jay Peas 42]

Aug 27, 2010 19:42:44 GMT -5 Goldenbane said:

I dunno about this...I like what Terry did and think it was awesome, but it really wasn't the first time Joker was beaten mentally. In the first season of Batman: TAS, a poor everyman character Joker had been tormenting scared the living s*** out of him by threatening to blow him up with one of his own bombs. I believe the speach was something like this:

"It's just you and me, Joker! No heroic ending, no big final encounter with the dark knight! All the papers will say tomorrow is the great Joker was blown to bits...along side some MISERABLE little nobody! Heh heh, it's funny...you see...I can destroy a man's dreams too!"

Joker was pretty much wetting his pants and actually calling for Batman to come help. Batman did eventually show up, and the everyman character revealed the bomb was just a fake "joke" bomb...pissing off the Joker but still having him quiver behind Batman for protection.

Well, keep in mind, at that point, Joker wasn't the iconic role he became latter on in the series, and Batman TAS wasn't the iconic series it would become. So, having the Joker beaten by his own games was a fine wrap up for what may have been his only appearence. If you are going to take the Joker down hard, this is the way to do it, not by a well timed punch.

[kingfeurio]

That was the first episode Harley Quinn appeared in. She was intended to be a one-off character and appear only in that episode.

[Thaal Sinestro]

Aug 27, 2010 19:11:22 GMT -5 @kingfeurio said:

I really want to watch this again now. It's interesting to hear everyone's take on it.

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}When I said Terry wasn't the "real Batman", I meant that Joker probably wouldn't see him that way as he wasn't the person who had been his adversary for all those years. But then again, Bruce probably wasn't the same Batman to him anymore either--he, IMO, saw him as a shell of his former self and as a mostly defenseless old man.

And is anyone else pissed that they had Harley Quinn be the grandmother of the Dee Twins? I seriously doubt Harley would EVER move on if something happened to the Joker. He's her puddin' and there's no one else for her.

I thought she died quite honestly D: