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Post by Janitor From Mars on Apr 7, 2010 1:46:42 GMT -5
So the TNA board faithful got what they want. Sadly I see nothing changing. I'm not sure what you mean. I'm not a supporter of chair shots to the head.
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Apr 7, 2010 1:47:58 GMT -5
So the TNA board faithful got what they want. Sadly I see nothing changing. I'm not sure what you mean. I'm not a supporter of chair shots to the head. He means the endless whining and potshots at Storm himself, not the discussion of the chairshot.
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Chainsaw
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It is what it is
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Post by Chainsaw on Apr 7, 2010 1:48:02 GMT -5
Tribute to Kanyon? What? Lance Storm has to have completely lost it if he thinks that Rob Terry giving a chair shot to Homicide was a shot at Kanyon. I'm pretty sure he meant it in a roundabout way. I don't think he was implying in any way that this was meant to be anything other than a terribly planned chairshot. Quite honestly, I can't blame him. It was hard to watch, and I cringed when it happened. It may have made Rob look like a badass, but like I said in the previous thread on this, he could have easily protected himself and still shrug it off and look like a badass.
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Post by Janitor From Mars on Apr 7, 2010 1:50:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean. I'm not a supporter of chair shots to the head. He means the endless whining and potshots at Storm himself, not the discussion of the chairshot. Oh yeah. Armchair bookers that think they know more than Lance, right?
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Post by Rorschach on Apr 7, 2010 1:53:15 GMT -5
He means the endless whining and potshots at Storm himself, not the discussion of the chairshot. Oh yeah. Armchair bookers that think they know more than Lance, right? No, people that think EVERYTHING Lance does or says is wrong unless he's praising TNA. That seems to be the only time he's entitled to say anything on the subject of wrestling. Otherwise, his opinions range from invalid, to pointless, to wrong, to off-base, to ignorant and even on occasion well meaning but flawed. Basically THOSE people. ;D
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Post by Janitor From Mars on Apr 7, 2010 1:57:00 GMT -5
Oh yeah. Armchair bookers that think they know more than Lance, right? No, people that think EVERYTHING Lance does or says is wrong unless he's praising TNA. That seems to be the only time he's entitled to say anything on the subject of wrestling. Otherwise, his opinions range from invalid, to pointless, to wrong, to off-base, to ignorant and even on occasion well meaning but flawed. Basically THOSE people. ;D Well to be fair, I've never read ANYTHING positive about TNA on here. There's no need for a TNA forum since no one appears to even LIKE TNA (am I right?).
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Apr 7, 2010 1:59:35 GMT -5
No, people that think EVERYTHING Lance does or says is wrong unless he's praising TNA. That seems to be the only time he's entitled to say anything on the subject of wrestling. Otherwise, his opinions range from invalid, to pointless, to wrong, to off-base, to ignorant and even on occasion well meaning but flawed. Basically THOSE people. ;D Well to be fair, I've never read ANYTHING positive about TNA on here. There's no need for a TNA forum since no one appears to even LIKE TNA (am I right?). There are more than enough people on here who like TNA, and they will let you know it quite thoroughly when you encounter them.
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Post by Orange on Apr 7, 2010 2:03:15 GMT -5
No, people that think EVERYTHING Lance does or says is wrong unless he's praising TNA. That seems to be the only time he's entitled to say anything on the subject of wrestling. Otherwise, his opinions range from invalid, to pointless, to wrong, to off-base, to ignorant and even on occasion well meaning but flawed. Basically THOSE people. ;D Well to be fair, I've never read ANYTHING positive about TNA on here. There's no need for a TNA forum since no one appears to even LIKE TNA (am I right?). *raises hand* I like TNA I try to remain positive about the company, but I understand that not everybody likes them and not everybody likes their direction but I personally do
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pks
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Post by pks on Apr 7, 2010 2:03:46 GMT -5
Well to be fair, I've never read ANYTHING positive about TNA on here. There's no need for a TNA forum since no one appears to even LIKE TNA (am I right?). There are more than enough people on here who like TNA, and they will let you know it quite thoroughly when you encounter them. Kind of like how all the Lance Storm defenders will agree with everything the man says because he 'rassles real good?' I do find the irony in people complaining about how people who watch wrestling can't book wrestling better than Lance, because he used to wrestle. Kevin Nash and Hulk Hogan used to wrestle and I see those same people bitching about their booking all the time.
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Apr 7, 2010 2:09:15 GMT -5
Kind of like how all the Lance Storm defenders will agree with everything the man says because he 'rassles real good?' I do find the irony in people complaining about how people who watch wrestling can't book wrestling better than Lance, because he used to wrestle. Kevin Nash and Hulk Hogan used to wrestle and I see those same people bitching about their booking all the time. And this is relevant to the opinion...how exactly? I don't agree with him because he wrestles well. I agree with him for the same reason I agree with Kevin Eck, who writes the wrestling column for Baltimore Sun and has NO 'rasslin experience--because his observations on TNA's shortcomings are inciteful and valid. The company has been around for eight years and made a grand total of ZERO marketable ME babyfaces and is still stuck with around a million fans (roughly). There are plenty of reasons for this besides "people are haters" and Lance (and plenty of other columnists) have explained them.
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pks
Don Corleone
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Post by pks on Apr 7, 2010 2:11:56 GMT -5
Kind of like how all the Lance Storm defenders will agree with everything the man says because he 'rassles real good?' I do find the irony in people complaining about how people who watch wrestling can't book wrestling better than Lance, because he used to wrestle. Kevin Nash and Hulk Hogan used to wrestle and I see those same people bitching about their booking all the time. And this is relevant to the opinion...how exactly? I don't agree with him because he wrestles well. I agree with him for the same reason I agree with Kevin Eck, who writes the wrestling column for Baltimore Sun and has NO 'rasslin experience--because his observations on TNA's shortcomings are inciteful and valid. The company has been around for eight years and made a grand total of ZERO marketable ME babyfaces and is still stuck with around a million fans (roughly). There are plenty of reasons for this besides "people are haters" and Lance (and plenty of other columnists) have explained them. You made a snarky remark about how a TNA fan likes a company(big shock), and how they'll let you know, like they'll be combative about it. I simply stated that the exact same can be said from the other side. You don't think AJ, Joe, or Burke are marketable? They've been pretty bad off for the most part lately, and pushing new talent has never been their strong point, I'm simply defending the fans of TNA. You act like they're all rabid dogs who jump on anyone with a different opinion than their own.
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josh
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Post by josh on Apr 7, 2010 2:16:04 GMT -5
Gosh. Being a TNA fan is like being the gay black kid in an interracial relationship at a Mississippi high school.
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Post by Orange on Apr 7, 2010 2:16:48 GMT -5
I'm just going to go out on a limb and say this thread is probably going to get locked, so before it does I want to offer up my final thoughts.
Is Lance Storm entitled to his own opinion? Sure! But the only bad thing is anytime a thread regarding Lance Storm is started it always ends up like this, Anti-TNA vs. Pro-TNA. Now I like TNA, so obviously mine and Storm's opinions don't match up at all, but why do we here have to argue about it? What is that going to accomplish except a locked thread?
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pks
Don Corleone
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Post by pks on Apr 7, 2010 2:20:12 GMT -5
I'm just going to go out on a limb and say this thread is probably going to get locked, so before it does I want to offer up my final thoughts. Is Lance Storm entitled to his own opinion? Sure! But the only bad thing is anytime a thread regarding Lance Storm is started it always ends up like this, Anti-TNA vs. Pro-TNA. Now I like TNA, so obviously mine and Storm's opinions don't match up at all, but why do we here have to argue about it? What is that going to accomplish except a locked thread? I've never seen someone who likes TNA putting up a Lance Storm thread, I'll just say that. It's the equivalent of me putting up a Jim Cornette interview in the middle of a Vince Russo forum.
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Post by Orange on Apr 7, 2010 2:22:47 GMT -5
I'm just going to go out on a limb and say this thread is probably going to get locked, so before it does I want to offer up my final thoughts. Is Lance Storm entitled to his own opinion? Sure! But the only bad thing is anytime a thread regarding Lance Storm is started it always ends up like this, Anti-TNA vs. Pro-TNA. Now I like TNA, so obviously mine and Storm's opinions don't match up at all, but why do we here have to argue about it? What is that going to accomplish except a locked thread? I've never seen someone who likes TNA putting up a Lance Storm thread, I'll just say that. It's the equivalent of me putting up a Jim Cornette interview in the middle of a Vince Russo forum. There's Vince Russo forums? Just kidding ;D That's not really what I'm saying though, I just pointed out that anytime threads about Storm on TNA pop up they always end up in these long debates between everybody.
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Dave at the Movies
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Apr 7, 2010 3:28:39 GMT -5
Boy I know this won't be popular but I have to completely disagree with Storm on this and say that he is a huge hypocrite. For a guy who was in ECW for so long to come out and say he has a problem with unprotected chair shots is absolutely disgusting to me. Oh so he didn't know concussions were bad for people and hurt brains in the 90s? BULL AND CRAP!!! People have known for a few decades now the impact that concussions have on athletes and their brain. They've known it in football for a long time now. Nowinski's research is not completely new and is centered around a huge debate that has been goign on for many years now. I have studied and researched his research and researched it myself and a lot of it is somewhat bias in ways and tries to say a lot of things about concussions are facts when they are really still being debated and gets into other stuff I can't talk about here because then it will get too political. I respect Nowinski for doing the research and feel really bad that he had to retire due to a really bad injury like that but there is a reason why WWE hardly has anything to do with him anymore. They don't take too kindly to guys that encourage their industry to be regulated by people that don't understand it and who could have the potential to help destroy it. I never criticize Storm on his opinion of TNA although I think it is whiney and makes him look like a big mark which a lot of people within the industry agree with which is why they never say anything about it. There is a reason why most wrestlers don't go on the internet and whine about things. It makes them look like marks. Even most indy wrestlers know this and it has been an unwritten law in wrestling for a few years now. Storm to me sounds like a very bitter guy who coudln't get over in the big leagues and without Justin Credible. For him to just assume Rob Terry is on steroids is bullcrap. And so what if Rob Terry is on steroids? Something people have to realize is that biologically it is not the steroids that kill people. It is the abuse of steroids that kill people. Guys who have taken steroids such as RVD have come out and have said this over and over. It is the same as any other drug. If you are an addict you shouldn't take it. If you can't stop taking it because you are addicted to it then you need to seek out therapy for drug abuse and enter rehab. I don't encourage anyone to take steroids but I don't discourage it either. I believe in individualism and think people are responsible enough to make their own choices. These guys like Marc Mero coming out of the woodworks after the Benoit Tragedy and jumping up on soapboexes and attacking other guys such as Steve Blackman need to shut their mouth and stop degrading the industry that made them rich and take responsibility for their own action instead of pointing the finger at others.(yes Marc Mero did this in an interview that Blackman was apart of and I felt that he was extremely disrespectful to Blackman.) I'm not a big fan of Rob Terry but if the guy wants to take an unprotected chair shot to the f'ing head he can do that. If he can take it then good. If he can't then that was his stupid decision and he will have to face the consequences just like how everyone in ECW including LANCE STORM did. These are grown men who can make their own decisions. If some of them want to push the envelope then they have every right to push it. So wrestling fans on the internet aren't that big on hardcore or so called "trash" wrestling because it helps kill guys? Bullcrap. If that were true then Necro Butcher wouldn't be nearly as popular as he is on the internet. Necro Butcher is a man who has done tons of dangerous stuff even back when he was in CZW when people were acting all big and high and mighty on their soapbox saying how stupid and dangerous CZW was. While we are at it why don't we just ban the shooting star press? Remember how it almost broke Brock Lesnar's neck? Sure guys like Evan Bourne can do it perfectly and have never hurt themselves doing it but why take the risk right? We shouldn't let people like him make their own decisions and know their own limitations because he might get hurt and it is our job as wrestling fans or as promoters or as former pro wrestlers like Lance Storm to say that he shouldn't do it at all. That is how I look at this. If you don't agree then that is fine and I can respect the other side of the argument. I just find it weird that an industry as cut throat as wrestling that use to have guys tearing each other's eyeballs out in locker rooms are all up in arms about stuff like this now.
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Post by carter 15 on Apr 7, 2010 3:42:01 GMT -5
I remember a VERY similar unprotected chair shot to the head on Brock Lesnar when he was making his name in WWE. Lance should of quit.
But seriously, if an unprotected chair shot makes his stomach wince, then i think that's fair enough. All you have to do is look at the list of his friends dead. And if he can't watch TNA because of an unprotected chair shot, then he probably shouldn't. I don't think anyone can argue his reasoning.
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Post by slickster on Apr 7, 2010 4:19:56 GMT -5
Boy I know this won't be popular but I have to completely disagree with Storm on this and say that he is a huge hypocrite. For a guy who was in ECW for so long to come out and say he has a problem with unprotected chair shots is absolutely disgusting to me. OK, so people aren't allowed to change their opinions over time, especially when new medical research comes out indicating that something is bad. Got it. So it's OK for the NFL/NCAA to institute changes to protect athletes but it's not OK for wrestling companies to do so. Got it. Ah, the use of weasel words like "a lot of people within the industry say." That's great to use when you have no sources or proof. I could say "a lot of people within the industry say that damienxander is a serial arsonist but no one talks about it" and you can't really disprove that statement. And Lance isn't really "in" the industry any more than a retired sports coach or a TV analyst is "in" their respective sport, so that argument's out. Right, because being pushed as a top-level heel in WCW and being a former Intercontinental and multi-time World Tag Team Champion = "not getting over in the big leagues." By that standard maybe 50 people have "gotten over in the big leagues" since 1985. Got it. No one but Rob Terry knows for sure if he's on steroids, but any nutritionist or personal trainer will tell you that it is virtually impossible to maintain a body like that 24/7/365 without some chemical assistance. Even pro bodybuilders cycle down when they're not getting ready for a competition. How exactly do you measure if someone can "take" an unprotected shot to the head before doing it? You can't, and the fault lies squarely with the TNA staff who laid out this segment. If it was Rob and Homicide who made this type of decision, then I'd agree. However, TNA scripts these segments and the workers follow them. It's TNA's responsibility not to put their workers in serious danger and they failed big time here. CZW was (and still is) booking very dangerous stuff. Just because Necro had some degree of popularity with a niche audience doesn't make that type of wrestling completely OK. Besides, even Necro has had to tone down his style to compensate for his many, many injuries. Ah, the old slippery-slope argument. If WWE didn't think Evan Bourne could hit the SSP safely with consistency then they would not script him to do that move. Actually, it kind of IS our job as wrestling fans to regulate what wrestlers do in the ring. The fallacy in your argument is that wrestlers have 100% control over what they do. They don't usually "make their own decisions." Promoters and writers tell them what to do and how to do it. If we as fans demand a more 'hardcore' product then promoters will make it happen because they want to draw money. Promoters will then instruct the workers to work a more 'hardcore' style and the workers will make it happen because they want to get paid. If we react negatively to something, then in general the promoters will respond so they can keep drawing money. I never thought I'd hear someone wax nostalgic for the 'good old days' when pro wrestlers were outlaws and bullies who acted like they were above the law.
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Dave at the Movies
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Apr 7, 2010 4:59:20 GMT -5
quotes in red
Boy I know this won't be popular but I have to completely disagree with Storm on this and say that he is a huge hypocrite. For a guy who was in ECW for so long to come out and say he has a problem with unprotected chair shots is absolutely disgusting to me.
OK, so people aren't allowed to change their opinions over time, especially when new medical research comes out indicating that something is bad. Got it.
No they can change their opinions but if Lance Storm didn't know that concussions were bad for your brain and shortened your life in the 90s than that is too damn bad. Ignorance is no excuse. The fact is that the "new medical research" isn't exactly new and is a very debated topic and has been since the 80s and in other forms even before that.
Quote: Oh so he didn't know concussions were bad for people and hurt brains in the 90s? BULL AND CRAP!!! People have known for a few decades now the impact that concussions have on athletes and their brain. They've known it in football for a long time now.
So it's OK for the NFL/NCAA to institute changes to protect athletes but it's not OK for wrestling companies to do so. Got it.
Did I say that? No. Don't put words in my quotes that aren't there.
Quote: I never criticize Storm on his opinion of TNA although I think it is whiney and makes him look like a big mark which a lot of people within the industry agree with which is why they never say anything about it. There is a reason why most wrestlers don't go on the internet and whine about things. It makes them look like marks. Even most indy wrestlers know this and it has been an unwritten law in wrestling for a few years now.
Ah, the use of weasel words like "a lot of people within the industry say." That's great to use when you have no sources or proof. I could say "a lot of people within the industry say that damienxander is a serial arsonist but no one talks about it" and you can't really disprove that statement.
And Lance isn't really "in" the industry any more than a retired sports coach or a TV analyst is "in" their respective sport, so that argument's out.
Storm has every right to his opinion but I also have a right to mine. Why do you think Storm is the only one that rants and raves about storylines on a wrestling show as an active wrestler or as a retired one? Because people within the industry of pro wrestling DON'T DO IT. I actually agree with him a lot of the time but the fact that he targets TNA so exclusively and not WWE or ROH leads me to believe that he is extremely bitter towards guys who run TNA like vince Russo and Jeff Jarrett.
Quote: Storm to me sounds like a very bitter guy who coudln't get over in the big leagues and without Justin Credible.
Right, because being pushed as a top-level heel in WCW and being a former Intercontinental and multi-time World Tag Team Champion = "not getting over in the big leagues." By that standard maybe 50 people have "gotten over in the big leagues" since 1985. Got it.
Sure he got over and is a good wrestler but he didn't stay over and that is the key in the wrestling business. Carlito gets ranted on about all the time about how he doesn't try hard enough but you never seem to hear the same argument for guys like Lance Storm mostly due to the fact that the internet just loves him for his wreslting ability while with guys like Carlito they have no problem throwing under the bus.
Quote: For him to just assume Rob Terry is on steroids is bullcrap. And so what if Rob Terry is on steroids? Something people have to realize is that biologically it is not the steroids that kill people. It is the abuse of steroids that kill people.
No one but Rob Terry knows for sure if he's on steroids, but any nutritionist or personal trainer will tell you that it is virtually impossible to maintain a body like that 24/7/365 without some chemical assistance. Even pro bodybuilders cycle down when they're not getting ready for a competition.
WRONG. People have different biology. Steve Blackman took steriods for a while but found out he was allergic to them and stopped but all through out his WWF days in the late 90s people swore up and down he was on the juice when he wasn't. If you work out enough and diet and have the discipline you can maintain a body like that if you are built that way. You can't just group everyone into the same category. People have very different biology when it comes to things like that
Quote: I'm not a big fan of Rob Terry but if the guy wants to take an unprotected chair shot to the f'ing head he can do that. If he can take it then good.
How exactly do you measure if someone can "take" an unprotected shot to the head before doing it? You can't, and the fault lies squarely with the TNA staff who laid out this segment.
How do you measure if someone can take a cross body which has caused way more concussions than chair shots ever have? If Rob got a bad injury from this I doubt he will do it again. It is his and the TNA's staff decision on whether he wants to try it.
Quote: These are grown men who can make their own decisions. If some of them want to push the envelope then they have every right to push it.
If it was Rob and Homicide who made this type of decision, then I'd agree. However, TNA scripts these segments and the workers follow them. It's TNA's responsibility not to put their workers in serious danger and they failed big time here.
If they forced him to take the unprotected chair shot then I agree with you but we don't know that. Why do you keep thinking that TNA controls every little thing their guys do? That is not how it works in TNA. I just read an interview by someone in TNA(it was Hardy or RVD) who said that things are a lot looser in TNA then they are in WWE.
Quote: So wrestling fans on the internet aren't that big on hardcore or so called "trash" wrestling because it helps kill guys? Bullcrap. If that were true then Necro Butcher wouldn't be nearly as popular as he is on the internet. Necro Butcher is a man who has done tons of dangerous stuff even back when he was in CZW when people were acting all big and high and mighty on their soapbox saying how stupid and dangerous CZW was.
CZW was (and still is) booking very dangerous stuff. Just because Necro had some degree of popularity with a niche audience doesn't make that type of wrestling completely OK. Besides, even Necro has had to tone down his style to compensate for his many, many injuries.
Sure it does not make it completely okay but you as just a wrestling fan are in no position to make that assumption. You have a right to your opinion but the fact that Necro is close to his 40s and guys like RVD and Sabu are about in their 40s just proves my point that some people know their limits. They don't need wrestling fans telling them what they can and can't do.
Quote: While we are at it why don't we just ban the shooting star press? Remember how it almost broke Brock Lesnar's neck? Sure guys like Evan Bourne can do it perfectly and have never hurt themselves doing it but why take the risk right?
Ah, the old slippery-slope argument. If WWE didn't think Evan Bourne could hit the SSP safely with consistency then they would not script him to do that move.
It is not a slippery slope. If Bourne some day slips and breaks his neck and paralyzes himself because of that move people will be saying the exact same thing about the shooting star press as they are saying about the unprotected chair shot. Hell they already did for a while when Lesnar almost killed himself doing it like a jackass.
Quote: We shouldn't let people like him make their own decisions and know their own limitations because he might get hurt and it is our job as wrestling fans or as promoters or as former pro wrestlers like Lance Storm to say that he shouldn't do it at all.
Actually, it kind of IS our job as wrestling fans to regulate what wrestlers do in the ring. The fallacy in your argument is that wrestlers have 100% control over what they do. They don't usually "make their own decisions." Promoters and writers tell them what to do and how to do it.
If we as fans demand a more 'hardcore' product then promoters will make it happen because they want to draw money. Promoters will then instruct the workers to work a more 'hardcore' style and the workers will make it happen because they want to get paid. If we react negatively to something, then in general the promoters will respond so they can keep drawing money.
NO. It is not wrestling fan's job to regulate what wrestlers can do physically in a ring. Sure it is the promoters job to see what the fans like and what they cheer for but as a wrestling fan you have most likely never wrestled which means you have hardly a clue about what is risky and what isn't.
BTW the crowd went ape crap crazy when Rob Terry got busted with the chair to his head.
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Post by Metalheadbanger Man on Apr 7, 2010 5:29:22 GMT -5
Well, I for one am glad that this means there'll be one less argument about TNA each week if Lance stops writing about it. I was starting to wonder why people even bother posting his blogs about Impact, seeing as it inevitably leads to the same old debate.
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