Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,133
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Aug 11, 2010 15:46:16 GMT -5
Ok, I know I'm getting old, that's disturbing to me.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Aug 11, 2010 16:00:56 GMT -5
They probably would have also forced a Muta face turn during his JCP days. I think they were beginning to do this anyway. The office may not have been listening, but I think more and more fans were beginning to like the guy. He had a cool look and some unique moves. Much like how those same fans loved Sid even though he was a heel. He was a big guy with a great look who powerbombed the hell out of people. And fans loved it, even though Dan Spivey did much more in the ring.
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jamielowndes {N}
Unicron
The following post has been paid for by the Nexus World Order
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on Aug 11, 2010 18:15:33 GMT -5
Steve Austin wouldve been crapped on in the 80's.
Ultimate Warrior would never have been over in any era after the one he was famous for.
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Post by FrankGotch on Aug 11, 2010 19:21:14 GMT -5
Steve Austin wouldve been crapped on in the 80's. Ultimate Warrior would never have been over in any era after the one he was famous for. Warrior would have been huge no matter what era he was in. The guy was just too big loud and colorful to be ignored. I honestly can't picture any era where Warrior's look style and intensity doesn't get over with the fans. The guy may not have been a great "wrestler", but he was one of the best performers to ever step into the ring, and performers have always been bigger draws then wrestlers even back in the 50s.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Aug 11, 2010 23:45:38 GMT -5
To be fair, in the eighties kayfabe was alive and well so people would naturally boo someone putting their girlfriend in danger if they thought it was real. Once kayfabe died and they invented the phrase "sports entertainment", it was ok to cheer the heels and women getting stunned because everyone knew it was all in good fun.
And to anyone who thinks people knew it was fake in the 80s, and I'm sure many did, but most didn't. That's why news programs were always trying to uncover the truth, even 20/20 did a segment and it was inconclusive, since Stossel got slapped like a bitch. Belzer got legit injured when he tried to expose it. Lawler and Kaufman fooled Letterman and his whole audience, etc.
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Post by baerrtt on Aug 12, 2010 7:53:14 GMT -5
Steve Austin wouldve been crapped on in the 80's. Ultimate Warrior would never have been over in any era after the one he was famous for. Warrior would have been huge no matter what era he was in. The guy was just too big loud and colorful to be ignored. I honestly can't picture any era where Warrior's look style and intensity doesn't get over with the fans. The guy may not have been a great "wrestler", but he was one of the best performers to ever step into the ring, and performers have always been bigger draws then wrestlers even back in the 50s. Considering the backlash he drew when he went to WCW in the late 90s or even post WM 12 when an already new generation of WWF fans weren't as energised by his presence as they may have once been It's easy to understand why some think that the Warrior may not have gotten over in an era where the audience had or was starting to have a more smark like mentality when it came to who they cheered or booed.
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jamielowndes {N}
Unicron
The following post has been paid for by the Nexus World Order
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on Aug 12, 2010 8:14:28 GMT -5
Steve Austin wouldve been crapped on in the 80's. Ultimate Warrior would never have been over in any era after the one he was famous for. Warrior would have been huge no matter what era he was in. The guy was just too big loud and colorful to be ignored. I honestly can't picture any era where Warrior's look style and intensity doesn't get over with the fans. The guy may not have been a great "wrestler", but he was one of the best performers to ever step into the ring, and performers have always been bigger draws then wrestlers even back in the 50s. He was so over the top and larger than life, that he fit the 1980's perfectly. That was right gimmick, right place, right time. You cant seriously say that in todays kayfabe-is-dead era that a guy like the Ultimate Warrior could get over. He was a fantastic performer, but he is incredibly dated now.
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Post by FrankGotch on Aug 12, 2010 8:50:17 GMT -5
Warrior would have been huge no matter what era he was in. The guy was just too big loud and colorful to be ignored. I honestly can't picture any era where Warrior's look style and intensity doesn't get over with the fans. The guy may not have been a great "wrestler", but he was one of the best performers to ever step into the ring, and performers have always been bigger draws then wrestlers even back in the 50s. He was so over the top and larger than life, that he fit the 1980's perfectly. That was right gimmick, right place, right time. You cant seriously say that in todays kayfabe-is-dead era that a guy like the Ultimate Warrior could get over. He was a fantastic performer, but he is incredibly dated now. Most wrestling fans don't even know what kayfabe means, nor do they care. If Warrior came out in 2010 and was given the same push he'd be just as over with kids today as he was back in his prime. He'd also most likely be over with smarks and the internet who would complain about his ring work but declare his insane intense promo style fried gold. In fact the only way I could see him failing to get over huge would be because of the crappy scripts that the WWE forces the wrestlers to stick to. Even then I still think he would have a huge following in the under 16 crowd. You can't seriously tell me that a guy like Batista can be a multi time world champ in this era, but you think Warrior would fail. Like I said before pro wrestling is about performers, and as a performer Warrior blows Batista out of the water.
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jamielowndes {N}
Unicron
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on Aug 12, 2010 10:52:29 GMT -5
Batista got his initial push as a suited and booted member of a 4 Horsemen reincarnation, in that he was HHHs backup. But he seemed like a real person. The Undertaker is over because he has been aorund for so long, and even though its some kind of supernatural zombie, the use of the gloves, striking, the gogoplata, triangle choke etc shows the Undertaker adapting to the relaity based environment of 2000's professional wrestling.
An intergalactic painted warrior from parts unknown who talks about being run over with lawnmowers and loading the spaceship with the rocket fuel? If the Warrior had never existed, and someone tried to get that over in anywhere but Chikara, they would be rightfully crapped on.
I LOVED the Ultimate Warrior, and his promos are epic, but that could not get over today. If the Warrior came back? Then he could be over. But what Im saying is that if that was debuted in 2010, it would be sure fire WrestleCrap.
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Post by FrankGotch on Aug 12, 2010 11:37:54 GMT -5
Batista got his initial push as a suited and booted member of a 4 Horsemen reincarnation, in that he was HHHs backup. But he seemed like a real person. The Undertaker is over because he has been aorund for so long, and even though its some kind of supernatural zombie, the use of the gloves, striking, the gogoplata, triangle choke etc shows the Undertaker adapting to the relaity based environment of 2000's professional wrestling. An intergalactic painted warrior from parts unknown who talks about being run over with lawnmowers and loading the spaceship with the rocket fuel? If the Warrior had never existed, and someone tried to get that over in anywhere but Chikara, they would be rightfully crapped on. I LOVED the Ultimate Warrior, and his promos are epic, but that could not get over today. If the Warrior came back? Then he could be over. But what Im saying is that if that was debuted in 2010, it would be sure fire WrestleCrap. Right now the WWE is filled to the brim with generic guys with no character or personality. If Warrior debuted in 2010 and received a push right out of the gate like he did when he debuted in the WWF there is no way that he fails. I honestly think he'd be bigger with the kids then Cena. I just can't see anyone especially kids not cheering for a guy with Warriors intensity and charisma. The guy is like an adrenaline shot every time he hits the ring. The only people I could see crapping on Warrior are the same people who crap on anyone who isn't "good" in the ring.
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dizzy
Trap-Jaw
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Post by dizzy on Aug 12, 2010 20:47:34 GMT -5
Considering the backlash he drew when he went to WCW in the late 90s or even post WM 12 when an already new generation of WWF fans weren't as energised by his presence What backlash? The response to Warrior in WCW was consistently big pops. WCW horribly misused him just as a pawn to Hogan, and yet he still got over big. And in 1996, Warrior was getting pops as big as Shawn Michaels was getting, and the latter was the WWF champion at this time. 'nuff said. Right now the WWE is filled to the brim with generic guys with no character or personality. If Warrior debuted in 2010 and received a push right out of the gate like he did when he debuted in the WWF there is no way that he fails. I concur. Ultimate Warrior was never a great wrestler, but as a performer and a character, he could run circles around any of the guys that are "over" today. I'd love to see him square off against half the guys today and make them look anemic.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,133
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Aug 13, 2010 1:29:54 GMT -5
It's a basic gimmick, a guy who's always running and full of energy and beats the crap out of guys mercilessly would get over, like a more intense Goldberg.
We're back to kids, and kids love a maniac, his promos were insane, but they had a point, him using the power of the spirits to win, or the power of the warriors, as long as you kind of get what he means, it's ok.
What would hurt him is HHH, I won't use the standard, 'he'd be buried' argument, but face HHH just takes the piss out of everything, and how well an Ultimate Warrior style character responds to being mocked would play a big part in wether or not it would be successful today.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Aug 13, 2010 2:41:13 GMT -5
Warrior wouldn't have worked in the Attitude era but he'd for sure get over with kids today.
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Post by baerrtt on Aug 13, 2010 5:33:33 GMT -5
Considering the backlash he drew when he went to WCW in the late 90s or even post WM 12 when an already new generation of WWF fans weren't as energised by his presence What backlash? The response to Warrior in WCW was consistently big pops. WCW horribly misused him just as a pawn to Hogan, and yet he still got over big.And in 1996, Warrior was getting pops as big as Shawn Michaels was getting, and the latter was the WWF champion at this time. 'nuff said. Right now the WWE is filled to the brim with generic guys with no character or personality. If Warrior debuted in 2010 and received a push right out of the gate like he did when he debuted in the WWF there is no way that he fails. I concur. Ultimate Warrior was never a great wrestler, but as a performer and a character, he could run circles around any of the guys that are "over" today. I'd love to see him square off against half the guys today and make them look anemic. The Warrior WAS getting booed towards the end of his short WCW run. I recall the Nitros and the awful Halloween Havoc match after the OWN stuff started (I've still got tapes of his Nitro appearances) and the responses grew less positive as every week progressed. Not to mention that he did nothing for the WWF's bottom line during his '96 tenure.
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Post by Junkenstein on Aug 13, 2010 7:35:53 GMT -5
What backlash? The response to Warrior in WCW was consistently big pops. WCW horribly misused him just as a pawn to Hogan, and yet he still got over big.And in 1996, Warrior was getting pops as big as Shawn Michaels was getting, and the latter was the WWF champion at this time. 'nuff said. I concur. Ultimate Warrior was never a great wrestler, but as a performer and a character, he could run circles around any of the guys that are "over" today. I'd love to see him square off against half the guys today and make them look anemic. The Warrior WAS getting booed towards the end of his short WCW run. I recall the Nitros and the awful Halloween Havoc match after the OWN stuff started (I've still got tapes of his Nitro appearances) and the responses grew less positive as every week progressed. Not to mention that he did nothing for the WWF's bottom line during his '96 tenure. One could argue that was more WCW's doing than the fault of Warrior's. When you book someone as poorly as WCW booked Warrior, ANYBODY's popularity would suffer. If they kept the bare bones of the Warrior character (basically a huge intense dude being crazy) and kept the Hogan shit to a minimum, then he would have had more shelf-life in WCW.
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dizzy
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 477
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Post by dizzy on Aug 13, 2010 14:26:02 GMT -5
The Warrior WAS getting booed towards the end of his short WCW run. I recall the Nitros and the awful Halloween Havoc match after the OWN stuff started (I've still got tapes of his Nitro appearances) and the responses grew less positive as every week progressed. I've got those tapes too, and the responses were always positive. I don't know what tapes you were watching. And I agree with what was said above; WCW booked Warrior very poorly as nothing more than a means to soothe Hogan's ego for having done the job in 1990. So if the pops weren't as huge as they were initially, that's why. Furthermore, if the fans booed during their Halloween Havoc match, it was because the match stunk the joint out. The WCW creative team (manned by Hogan) didn't want to put any work into any of their matches, and the results showed. And as I've already mentioned, Ultimate did as much for the WWF during his brief stay than the WWF champion Shawn Michaels at the time. I don't have to take anybody's word for that; all I have to do is watch the shows and look at the signs, shirts, and fan reactions. There were as many Warrior fans in the crowd in '96 as anyone. I'd agree Warrior wasn't as popular as in the past, but there again, the company and the climate at that time had influence over that. Firstly, Warrior wasn't there long enough in '96 to create a significant increase in ticket sales. Big draws are developed over time. I think it's amazing that the reactions were as strong as they were since he'd been gone since '92 and an entire generational switch had occurred within the WWF wrestlers and fans since then. Secondly, the WWF in general wasn't doing great business inb 1996. Shawn Michaels as WWF champion didn't draw any better during the entire year of '96 than Warrior did during his 3 months. It would take time before the WWF as a whole could shift into a position that could draw more fans. That wasn't and couldn't have been affected by any one wrestler, be it Warrior or Michaels or anyone else.
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Post by doguncle on Aug 13, 2010 14:27:04 GMT -5
Superstar Billy Graham, had he stepped into a time warp in 1977 and entered the Attitude Era, would have been a Rock-level superstar, despite only being a passable worker at best. If he'd been around in 1983 at his late 70s level, he could have been Hogan's biggest competition to be the guy who succeeded Backlund as the WWF titleholder. Instead, he went into seclusion to the point people thought he'd died then came back drastically different to the point of being unrecognizable.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Aug 13, 2010 15:03:35 GMT -5
I can't see Warrior working in the '50s, I'm sorry. Yes, Gorgeous George was more of a character than a "wrestler," but there's a world of difference between the Gorgeous George character and the Ultimate Warrior character. And having seen some of his matches, George actually did do wrestling moves. I don't think fans of that era would have responded to a guy exhausting himself by running to the ring and goofing around before the match even started, then then throwing a bunch of clotheslines.
Plus, with the way the business was protected back then, odds are good that some old shooter would have ran him off before he really had a chance anyway.
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