comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by comahan on Apr 20, 2010 4:31:15 GMT -5
That or he just doesnt share your opinions As for the main post, I hadnt made the Booker/HHH connection at all, nor had I seen anyone mention it before now. But a lot of people thought that AJ was going to retain at Lockdown, including me. I dont know, maybe its because I expected the result, but its caught me off guard that anyone would be this up in arms over it. Thats not to say "oh well youre an idiot!" or anything, your opinions fine, I just personally dont get the connection, nor the passion behind it, as I never once thought if it as some racially charged feud or anything. In terms of getting his legs taken out from under him or losing heat or what have you, again, i just dont see it. If anything, i think that people have more of a reason to cheer him than ever now after he was screwed out of the title following the path he took to the match. JB and Val were making a big deal out of it on the post-show about how he got the shaft at Lockdown, and as one of the biggest Pope fans here, I simply cant wait for his revenge promo. Which brings me to another point - to me, Pope is someone who you could bury like hell every single week (although I dont think this is one of those cases), but as long as he gets a microphone, he'll always be fine 30 seconds later. And I cant help but point out the difference in that Booker T was hit with a regular move, then was pinned after HHH took like a full minute to crawl over to him - while Pope was jabbed in the eye with a pen and hit with the Styles Clash for an immediate cover. Mid post-thought, and I dont want to delete the above, so Ill throw it here. If Lockdown were the PPV after against all odds, id agree with all of your points about riding the wave of momentum, etc, and him deserving the win. The promo he had and the faceoff with Flair and AJ he had the night after AAA was awesome, and the crowd was super hot. But from there, they sorta botched his buildup. They tried to build both he and Abyss at the same time, and to me, Pope sorta got shortended in their efforts to make Abyss look like Superman. Thats the reason that I never expected Pope to win - because I think they knew that they could have done a hell of a lot better on his Lockdown buildup. It seemed that he actually got less over as time went on because instead of playing to his strengths and letting him tear AJ apart on the mic, they tried to go the sympathy route with Pope, and to me it just didnt work that well. I understand where they were coming from, because with a typical babyface sympathy will usually work, but Pope isnt really a typical babyface to me, hes a trash talking anti hero almost. So I was fine with it after Destination X, because I figured "well, now theyll put Pope/Styles into hyperdrive and it'll be fine". But It just never happened. And for that, as a massive Pope fan, Im actually glad that he wasnt given the belt, because to me, he didnt have NEARLY the momentum that he could have had. So I guess my point is that Pope came out of no where to be a top guy. He had momentum heading into Bound for Glory, and wasnt able to make it due to personal reasons. He didnt show up on TV for nearly a month after that, but he ended up fine. He lost to Desmond Wolfe and Orlando Jordan in a 2 day span, and everyone was saying he was done, but he ended up fine. Pope has the ability to - because of his gift on the microphone - overcome anything thats thrown at him. I might not agree with the fact that you think his legs were cut out from under him, but even if I did, I think id believe that it wouldnt matter that much with Pope, simply because of who it is and the fact that he can turn a crowd hot and make people forget about everything with 30 seconds on the stick. You're gonna be waiting for a long time for that promo because he's about to go to the Midcard graveyard. ... Do you have any motivation other than to try and bait anyone who doesnt agree with you? These constant comments, plus your stuff in the other thread with "try again!" everytime someone tried to make a point just makes you seem like a troll, man. No one likes being called a sheep because they disagree with someone. Im sure you know that. I get it, you dont like what happened, but there are SO many different ways you could go about saying it and letting it be known than the way youre doing it. All that doing what youre doing will accomplish is more venomous responses toward you which will just lead to pointless bickering that the forum doesnt need. I dont agree with Krimzon, but at least hes trying to discuss it and not making smug comments toward every single post that disagrees with him. With that said, I wont be responding to you anymore in these threads. If you want to keep doing what youre doing, thats fine, I cant stop you, but I wont be dragged into this stuff and I hope, for discussion sake (as I think this is an interesting thread, since again, I hadnt even thought of the connection), that others ignore the comments as well so that the thread stays open. Now that my high and mighty stance is over with, lol, back to the regularly scheduled programming. I'll be happy to further discuss the subject at hand
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Apr 20, 2010 6:59:43 GMT -5
^Thank you for being the voive of reason
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Post by kickassJP on Apr 20, 2010 7:11:15 GMT -5
I agree. I don't know, I'm as much to blame since I kept the argument going.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Apr 20, 2010 7:23:31 GMT -5
You're gonna be waiting for a long time for that promo because he's about to go to the Midcard graveyard. ... Do you have any motivation other than to try and bait anyone who doesnt agree with you? These constant comments, plus your stuff in the other thread with "try again!" everytime someone tried to make a point just makes you seem like a troll, man. No one likes being called a sheep because they disagree with someone. Im sure you know that. I get it, you dont like what happened, but there are SO many different ways you could go about saying it and letting it be known than the way youre doing it. All that doing what youre doing will accomplish is more venomous responses toward you which will just lead to pointless bickering that the forum doesnt need. I dont agree with Krimzon, but at least hes trying to discuss it and not making smug comments toward every single post that disagrees with him. With that said, I wont be responding to you anymore in these threads. If you want to keep doing what youre doing, thats fine, I cant stop you, but I wont be dragged into this stuff and I hope, for discussion sake (as I think this is an interesting thread, since again, I hadnt even thought of the connection), that others ignore the comments as well so that the thread stays open. Now that my high and mighty stance is over with, lol, back to the regularly scheduled programming. I'll be happy to further discuss the subject at hand Not to continue the argument, but there were two sides to it. Yes, there was the unfortunate "sheep" argument, but there was also the oh-so enlightened "shut up, don't complain, and enjoy what you're presented with" argument, as well. If you're gonna go after one, go after both, fair up.
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Post by jakemcclain on Apr 20, 2010 8:50:21 GMT -5
I cannot believe the absolute griping in here.
OH NO, POPE'S GOING TO BE A MIDCARDER! HE WON'T HAVE A WORTHWHILE CAREER!
Man, bunch of babies! YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!
It's called a slow burn. Just be patient and WATCH!
Now be good boys and go back to your TV dinners if you want something quick and easy.
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Post by Michael Coello on Apr 20, 2010 8:59:34 GMT -5
It just seems like the OJ/Pope thing again. Even though Pope had reason enough to lose, it was just him losing that caused people to go batcrap about it.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
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Post by Dub H on Apr 20, 2010 9:06:08 GMT -5
You're gonna be waiting for a long time for that promo because he's about to go to the Midcard graveyard. ... Do you have any motivation other than to try and bait anyone who doesnt agree with you? These constant comments, plus your stuff in the other thread with "try again!" everytime someone tried to make a point just makes you seem like a troll, man. No one likes being called a sheep because they disagree with someone. Im sure you know that. I get it, you dont like what happened, but there are SO many different ways you could go about saying it and letting it be known than the way youre doing it. All that doing what youre doing will accomplish is more venomous responses toward you which will just lead to pointless bickering that the forum doesnt need. I dont agree with Krimzon, but at least hes trying to discuss it and not making smug comments toward every single post that disagrees with him. With that said, I wont be responding to you anymore in these threads. If you want to keep doing what youre doing, thats fine, I cant stop you, but I wont be dragged into this stuff and I hope, for discussion sake (as I think this is an interesting thread, since again, I hadnt even thought of the connection), that others ignore the comments as well so that the thread stays open. Now that my high and mighty stance is over with, lol, back to the regularly scheduled programming. I'll be happy to further discuss the subject at hand *Santino Voice* You arent even on a Restaurant,but you got served! And again,it really is a interesting point,i can see the relation.But i didnt feel the same INTENSITY of burial theyhad with Booker T,for some reason. And it looks like Booker T vs Triple H will never stop being a active topic in this forum
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2010 9:25:53 GMT -5
TNA brings in an EX wwe guy. Builds him up with an original character making him seem more like a TNA original.
He's red hot with the fans and cuts great promos. He works hard for the company and really makes TNA look good.
Of COURSE he'll not win the title
They want to bring in someone who's gimmick hasn't changed since he was in WWE years ago, who can barely cut a promo, who has a noted history of illegal drug use (not condemning, but if he were to get busted by the po-po he might get jail time - i.e. he's a liability) and give him the title after a couple months.
Makes sense to me.
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Post by championsucka on Apr 20, 2010 9:55:10 GMT -5
It reminds me of HHH/Booker T. This may be a wild conclusion to jump to, but I'll tell you why I leapt. 1. White World Champion managed by Ric Flair. 2. Black challenger that overcame the odds to earn a title shot. 3. PPV match at the biggest show/2nd biggest show of the year. 4. Racially charged promo by Triple H/Ric Flair. 5. The challenger had an uphill battle. 6. The challenger is riding a big wave of momentum and has the fans behind him. 7. The match comes and it leaves fans with a bad taste in their mouths because the heel won, and in the case of Booker T, the challenger was left to twist in the wind with no satisfying payoff. The jury is still out on Pope, but RVD winning the World Title from AJ really kind of ruins Pope's storyline with AJ. Pope busted his ass to get a shot at AJ. He went through hell. He had to wrestle 3 matches in one night and he got attacked before the final one backstage. His ankle is then injured after a racially charged promo by Flair. He then has to contend with Desmond Wolfe. Pope finally gets to take out all his frustrations on AJ in the cage, and he's the victim of a pen in the eye and a Styles Clash. The way they built Pope up, him losing would leave people feeling raw. Naturally, you'd think that in this day and age, the feud would continue for the belt, but the next night, RVD, who came out of nowhere, wins the belt from AJ. If (big if) Pope and AJ keep feuding, the revenge Pope damn well better get won't be as sweet because AJ doesn't have the title. Pope wouldn't have climbed the mountain top. And if the feud doesn't continue, Pope fans, and fans that were invested in the storyline are left feeling sour. Pope had the long, hard road in a feud with AJ. Pope had a bitter feud with him and Flair. Pope needed to be the one to upend AJ. For a big Pope fan like me, it makes me like RVD a little less. Yes that's quite markish, but dammit, that celebration belonged to Pope. He's the one that should've been hoisted on the shoulders of the other wrestlers. Against AJ & Flair, Pope has fought beside Joe, Abyss, & Hogan. When Pope's ankle was hurt, he hobbled out to help members of Team Hogan against an attack from Team Flair. He should've had the confetti. Regardless of what some people may think, it really does take a lot of wind out of Pope's sails. Yeah he'll still be over, but that huge wave of momentum that he was riding is shot to hell in favor of RVD, a guy that really doesn't need the World Title. He could come out and fart in Tenay's face and it would get the loudest reaction of the night. I just can't help but feel like they cut Pope's legs out from under him, much like the WWE did with Booker T. The moment Booker's shoulders were pinned to the mat, you could hear the toilet flushing on his current push. Given how much the two angles have in common, I can't help but think that Pope may suffer the same fate. And let's be real. TNA has done nothing in the past to make me think that they can remedy this situation. I honestly think that they were going to do it right, but bottled out at some point. When it became time to pull the trigger they went for a retread (no offense to RVD), instead of something NEW. It's TNA in a microcosm really. All this great talent but no-one wants to put the company in their hands, in case they collectivly fail.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 20, 2010 10:12:34 GMT -5
Remember how long it took for Samoa Joe to win the title? For AJ to win it after his first NWA title win? Those are crappy examples since everone pretty much agrees that Joe should have won it much earlier. Ditto AJ.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Apr 20, 2010 10:34:21 GMT -5
Is Pope a proven name? No.
So instead of running a show with a guy that could very well cause viewers to turn out, they went with the guy who will sustain and perhaps even build the audience.
You're making it like this is a long term title run. It's entirely possible that within this two months they continue to build Pope and Anderson takes the strap, leading to Pope/Anderson at BFG.
Relax. It's been a day. Like it or not, Van Dam is over with both the live and television crowds.
Were there racially charged promos on IMPACT? I don't remember them being nearly as questionable as the Triple H/Booker T promos leading up to Mania 19.
And if we want to talk character - what exactly is D'Angelo Dinero? Is he a street preacher? Is he a pimp? If you want to talk undefined characters, he's the perfect example. Cool sunglasses and a protective facemask don't make a character.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2010 10:37:07 GMT -5
I cannot believe the absolute griping in here. OH NO, POPE'S GOING TO BE A MIDCARDER! HE WON'T HAVE A WORTHWHILE CAREER! Man, bunch of babies! YOU DON'T KNOW THAT! It's called a slow burn. Just be patient and WATCH! Now be good boys and go back to your TV dinners if you want something quick and easy. Wow - you really need to relax man. You should like an ass the way you rip on other posters. That being said - I can't imagine RVD winning the title was that big of a surprise. He's Hogan's buddy and Ex-WWE. If Pope would have won at Lockdown - I would have been legit suprised.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2010 10:38:08 GMT -5
Is Pope a proven name? No. So instead of running a show with a guy that could very well cause viewers to turn out, they went with the guy who will sustain and perhaps even build the audience. You're making it like this is a long term title run. It's entirely possible that within this two months they continue to build Pope and Anderson takes the strap, leading to Pope/Anderson at BFG. Relax. It's been a day. Like it or not, Van Dam is over with both the live and television crowds. Were there racially charged promos on IMPACT? I don't remember them being nearly as questionable as the Triple H/Booker T promos leading up to Mania 19. And if we want to talk character - what exactly is D'Angelo Dinero? Is he a street preacher? Is he a pimp? If you want to talk undefined characters, he's the perfect example. Cool sunglasses and a protective facemask don't make a character. RVD is so over with the TV crowd that he's shot iMPACT's ratings through the roof. If the roof is .7
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Post by jakemcclain on Apr 20, 2010 10:53:41 GMT -5
Yeah I rip on other posters, especially ones that want things their way when they have no clue what they are talking about.
Here's the truth. I am a huge Pope fan, and I have, in the past, verbally ripped RVD to shreds for his work. Same with Jeff Hardy. Now I don't because both have more moves in TNA than in WWE, and their big moves mean more.
But Lockdown spoke volumes about Pope, he's NOT quite there. Samoa Joe was, and they blew it. Pope isn't there yet, awesome as he has been. Half the damn crowd booed him. He's really over in Orlando, and he's got a fresh look and character, but to represent the company for a while, you need more consistency.
RVD is not long term. This is a couple months tops to generate interest. Pope's time will come.....people just need patience
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Post by GaTechGrad on Apr 20, 2010 11:53:21 GMT -5
There are a couple of differences IMO. Pope is new and fresh, but I'm not sure if he's ready to be the World Champion. At the TNA shows I've attended, Pope has gotten mild reactions. He just needs more time to build a fan base. Secondly, Booker T at the time was billed as being from the "inferior" WCW (or that's what McMahon wanted us to believe). Booker was in the WWE at a time when McMahon was pissing all over anything related to WCW.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
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Post by AriadosMan on Apr 20, 2010 11:58:31 GMT -5
It appears Pope is turning into the TNA Forum equivalent of CM Punk in WWE, where his fans go ballistic anytime he gets "screwed" or otherwise comes up on the short end of a feud. The behavioral similarities are too notable to miss.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 20, 2010 12:10:18 GMT -5
Yeah I rip on other posters, especially ones that want things their way when they have no clue what they are talking about. Here's the truth. I am a huge Pope fan, and I have, in the past, verbally ripped RVD to shreds for his work. Same with Jeff Hardy. Now I don't because both have more moves in TNA than in WWE, and their big moves mean more. But Lockdown spoke volumes about Pope, he's NOT quite there. Samoa Joe was, and they blew it. Pope isn't there yet, awesome as he has been. Half the damn crowd booed him. He's really over in Orlando, and he's got a fresh look and character, but to represent the company for a while, you need more consistency. RVD is not long term. This is a couple months tops to generate interest. Pope's time will come.....people just need patience Here's the thing, it wont generate interest. At least not enough to spike up the ratings long-term. If Angle, Booker T and Mick Foley couldn't RVD doesn't have a chance.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by AriadosMan on Apr 20, 2010 12:11:46 GMT -5
I wonder just how popular RVD is with casual fans (at least the "huge casual audience" people claim is just waiting to turn on IMPACT).
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Tapout
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Post by Tapout on Apr 20, 2010 12:15:45 GMT -5
It reminds me of HHH/Booker T. This may be a wild conclusion to jump to, but I'll tell you why I leapt. 1. White World Champion managed by Ric Flair. 2. Black challenger that overcame the odds to earn a title shot. 3. PPV match at the biggest show/2nd biggest show of the year. 4. Racially charged promo by Triple H/Ric Flair. 5. The challenger had an uphill battle. 6. The challenger is riding a big wave of momentum and has the fans behind him. 7. The match comes and it leaves fans with a bad taste in their mouths because the heel won, and in the case of Booker T, the challenger was left to twist in the wind with no satisfying payoff. The jury is still out on Pope, but RVD winning the World Title from AJ really kind of ruins Pope's storyline with AJ. Pope busted his ass to get a shot at AJ. He went through hell. He had to wrestle 3 matches in one night and he got attacked before the final one backstage. His ankle is then injured after a racially charged promo by Flair. He then has to contend with Desmond Wolfe. Pope finally gets to take out all his frustrations on AJ in the cage, and he's the victim of a pen in the eye and a Styles Clash. The way they built Pope up, him losing would leave people feeling raw. Naturally, you'd think that in this day and age, the feud would continue for the belt, but the next night, RVD, who came out of nowhere, wins the belt from AJ. If (big if) Pope and AJ keep feuding, the revenge Pope damn well better get won't be as sweet because AJ doesn't have the title. Pope wouldn't have climbed the mountain top. And if the feud doesn't continue, Pope fans, and fans that were invested in the storyline are left feeling sour. Pope had the long, hard road in a feud with AJ. Pope had a bitter feud with him and Flair. Pope needed to be the one to upend AJ. For a big Pope fan like me, it makes me like RVD a little less. Yes that's quite markish, but dammit, that celebration belonged to Pope. He's the one that should've been hoisted on the shoulders of the other wrestlers. Against AJ & Flair, Pope has fought beside Joe, Abyss, & Hogan. When Pope's ankle was hurt, he hobbled out to help members of Team Hogan against an attack from Team Flair. He should've had the confetti. Regardless of what some people may think, it really does take a lot of wind out of Pope's sails. Yeah he'll still be over, but that huge wave of momentum that he was riding is shot to hell in favor of RVD, a guy that really doesn't need the World Title. He could come out and fart in Tenay's face and it would get the loudest reaction of the night. I just can't help but feel like they cut Pope's legs out from under him, much like the WWE did with Booker T. The moment Booker's shoulders were pinned to the mat, you could hear the toilet flushing on his current push. Given how much the two angles have in common, I can't help but think that Pope may suffer the same fate. And let's be real. TNA has done nothing in the past to make me think that they can remedy this situation. I have yet to see any valid counterpoints against this train of thought in this thread. This was a really stupid move on TNA's part and hopefully they bring out the bandages quick before Burke/Pope loses his heat. Not real sure what they can do to keep his stock up though. They seem to have booked themselves into a corner.
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Post by Michael Coello on Apr 20, 2010 12:23:36 GMT -5
It reminds me of HHH/Booker T. This may be a wild conclusion to jump to, but I'll tell you why I leapt. 1. White World Champion managed by Ric Flair. 2. Black challenger that overcame the odds to earn a title shot. 3. PPV match at the biggest show/2nd biggest show of the year. 4. Racially charged promo by Triple H/Ric Flair. 5. The challenger had an uphill battle. 6. The challenger is riding a big wave of momentum and has the fans behind him. 7. The match comes and it leaves fans with a bad taste in their mouths because the heel won, and in the case of Booker T, the challenger was left to twist in the wind with no satisfying payoff. The jury is still out on Pope, but RVD winning the World Title from AJ really kind of ruins Pope's storyline with AJ. Pope busted his ass to get a shot at AJ. He went through hell. He had to wrestle 3 matches in one night and he got attacked before the final one backstage. His ankle is then injured after a racially charged promo by Flair. He then has to contend with Desmond Wolfe. Pope finally gets to take out all his frustrations on AJ in the cage, and he's the victim of a pen in the eye and a Styles Clash. The way they built Pope up, him losing would leave people feeling raw. Naturally, you'd think that in this day and age, the feud would continue for the belt, but the next night, RVD, who came out of nowhere, wins the belt from AJ. If (big if) Pope and AJ keep feuding, the revenge Pope damn well better get won't be as sweet because AJ doesn't have the title. Pope wouldn't have climbed the mountain top. And if the feud doesn't continue, Pope fans, and fans that were invested in the storyline are left feeling sour. Pope had the long, hard road in a feud with AJ. Pope had a bitter feud with him and Flair. Pope needed to be the one to upend AJ. For a big Pope fan like me, it makes me like RVD a little less. Yes that's quite markish, but dammit, that celebration belonged to Pope. He's the one that should've been hoisted on the shoulders of the other wrestlers. Against AJ & Flair, Pope has fought beside Joe, Abyss, & Hogan. When Pope's ankle was hurt, he hobbled out to help members of Team Hogan against an attack from Team Flair. He should've had the confetti. Regardless of what some people may think, it really does take a lot of wind out of Pope's sails. Yeah he'll still be over, but that huge wave of momentum that he was riding is shot to hell in favor of RVD, a guy that really doesn't need the World Title. He could come out and fart in Tenay's face and it would get the loudest reaction of the night. I just can't help but feel like they cut Pope's legs out from under him, much like the WWE did with Booker T. The moment Booker's shoulders were pinned to the mat, you could hear the toilet flushing on his current push. Given how much the two angles have in common, I can't help but think that Pope may suffer the same fate. And let's be real. TNA has done nothing in the past to make me think that they can remedy this situation. I have yet to see any valid counterpoints against this train of thought in this thread. This was a really stupid move on TNA's part and hopefully they bring out the bandages quick before Burke/Pope loses his heat. Not real sure what they can do to keep his stock up though. They seem to have booked themselves into a corner. Consdering there was about 16 different threads about this subject, I'm sure someone has addressed this. Let me just say this. The reaction seems to be the same from what happened with OJ. It was as misguided back then as it is now.
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