Why does WWE push us to root for the heels?

[Bubble Lead]

Perhaps it's just bad writing, but lately it seems like WWE writes the heels to be more sympathetic than the faces.

For instance, we look at Smackdown. In the whole Chavo vs. Rey thing, Chavo looks completely in the right. Everything he has said about Rey is true(hell, it was everything most fans were saying months ago when this Eddie stuff began). Chavo has perfectly good reasons for doing what he did, and Rey has said and done nothing to make it look any different.

Then on RAW, Foley vs. Flair makes Foley look in the right. Flair gets owned on the mic every week and looks like at best like a putz, and at worst like a delusional old man.

Then of course Cena, who gets booed against every heel. Every heel points out good points about Cena, like how he sucks as a wrestler(Angle/HHH), or gets preferential treatment(Edge).

It gets even worse when you have to put up with the announcers shilling for the faces every week, and being totally hypocritical. If a face cheats it's deemed okay, but if a heel does, we're supposed to hate them. We're expected to think Randy Orton was in the wrong for slapping Lawler in retaliation for Lawler putting his hands on Orton the week before just because he was offended by Randy not wanting Lawler to touch him.

So what's so hard about writing the faces to be sympathetic or likable?

[Ass Dan]

Apperantly, you've forgotten that the average WWE mark's IQ is lower than their age.

[mo]

Because it's 2006, that type of thing isn't accepted now, not saying that to be ignorant, but it's kind of the culture, people prefer badasses over happy good guys

something like that, doesn't really apply to Flair and them, but yeah

[bshadye413]

phenom said:

Apperantly, you've forgotten that the average WWE mark's IQ is lower than their age.

Which was certainly true tonight, given the "Edge is gay" chants. That was just embarassing. At least try to be creative, or dont chant anything at all.

[Bubble Lead]

I think it's more a case of bad writing on the part of the WWE than fans changing perceptions.

I usually root for the bad guys, but in WCW I wanted to see Sting destroy the nWo. In the attitude era, I wanted to see Austin one-up McMahon and give him what was coming to him. Even in ECW(which is the best written show right now, angles wise), I want to see Dreamer and Sandman kill Test and Knox.

[The son of a plumber.]

Yea i've been thinking that lately. I like the Faces on ECW and TNA but on raw and smackdown I usaully want the heel to win. Carlito and London and Kindrink are probably my favorite faces.

[Milkman Norm]

I don't think bad writing is all there is too it. People have almost always found villians more interesting than hero's. The devil is the most interesting character in Pardise Lost and Bram Strokers Dracula was more popular than Van Helsing. The second one is a bit of a stretch but the first illustrates my point. Villains/ Heels are often more fun to write for because you aren't restraned in what you can do. They aren't bound by the social morals of the time because the exist to break them. Hero's/True Faces are bound by the morals and norms to the time. This leads into a problem with the audence. Because many wrestling fans, not all by any means, but a large minority are teenagers there is a tendency for them to want the heel or anti-hero to win because they too are trying to push social norms to create an identity. The hero/face is boring because they seem to inforce the status quo. The heel is a heel now not because they do things that are villian like but because they are shown to attempt to unfairly control the anti-hero. The anti-hero is the face because they play by their own rules. Anyways I probably over thought that.

[EvenBaldobombHasAJob]

*claps*

[wwerules60]

All they are doing is giving the heels a reason to be in the fued. THey just have really good reasons. Its not as simple as good guys vs. Bad guys anymore. there has to be a reason for the tension

[JMA]

I doubt any of this is planned. In my view, the wrong people are heels and faces. For instance, Foley should be the face and Flair should be the heel in their feud.

[Milkman Norm]

well in the case of Foley and Flair I think it's more that both guys are legends and people that fans grew up with so neither can probably draw strong heel heat anymore

[JMA]

milkmannorm said:

well in the case of Foley and Flair I think it's more that both guys are legends and people that fans grew up with so neither can probably draw strong heel heat anymore

I don't know about that. Flair could get people to hate him if he tried his hardest to do so.

Honestly, you can get fans to hate anyone if you book things right.

[HoagieWithPastrami]

bshadye413 said:

phenom said:

Apperantly, you've forgotten that the average WWE mark's IQ is lower than their age.

Which was certainly true tonight, given the "Edge is gay" chants. That was just embarassing. At least try to be creative, or dont chant anything at all.

But even so, the boos for Cena were still VERY audible as J.R. screeched "LISTEN TO THAT OVATION!!"

I mean, even the marks at home watching on TV can hear those boos, and when the company treats them like they're stupid they may turn on the product.

I remember that even when I was a little marky little kid, I used to hate it when they said ridiculous things that I knew weren't true. They've gone back to doing that now.

[Bubble Lead]

I really, really hate WWE's commentary now. Back in the attitude era and even as recently as a few years ago, the face commentators weren't such shills compared to what they are now. If the fans started to say, boo Austin, the commentators would have mentioned it. Then they probably would have turned it into a storyline or saw it as an excuse to tweak the character.

They definitely wouldn't gloss over it, or make excuses for the fans booing someone.

Hell even WCW was smart enough at times to do that. Hogan started getting boos similar to what Cena has been getting the past year. WCW eventually made him a heel and leader of the nWo.

It used to be that the play by play man, largely would not give his opinions on what was going on. If a heel was particularly vile, he would say something about him getting what he deserved. Also, sometimes the heel color guy would bait the face announcer into arguing with him about the face vs. the heel. It's the announcers job to get the wrestlers over, not hammer it into our heads that so and so is an SOB that can't win a match without cheating.

A good example was the Taker/Mankind Cell match. Taker was the face and Mankind was the heel in that match, but due to JR's commentary, both guys got put over, Mankind as a tough SOB and Taker as someone to be feared. If that match happened in this day and age, JR would be yelling about how Mankind is a piece of crap who deserved everything he was getting, and how Taker was great for mercilessly beating on him. Then, when Mankind brought tacks into the match, JR would probably be shrieking about how much of an SOB he is for trying to "maim" the poor Taker.

[Loki]

I don't think WWE are doing that on purpose...

To me it's just a by-product of the current booking.

There's little or no reason to cheer for the (few) faces on the roster. The times and the fans' mindset have changed since the 80s, so the Good Guy stereotype isn't interesting/likable anymore.

Plus, a babyface needs PERFECT booking to get and stay over. Heels can enjoy every kind of shortcuts and cheap heat tricks, while babyfaces can't.

Heels can have more interesting personalities, classic faces tends to be plain and boring in their righteousness.

The only face which still works, in a way, is the badass/cheating face. But that's a bastardization, and it harmed the business on the mid-run IMO.

WWE tried to turn Cena into the new Hogan, booking him as the "friendly rapper who'll overcome all odds to triumph over the Evil ones", but they've been forced to put some Austin sauce on him in the (vane) effort to make him appealing to the crowd.

Rey Rey got tons of hate as soon as he started dragging Eddie's corpse around to justify his raise to the top. 15-20 years ago, in kayfabe land, the "I'm doing it for my dead friend" would have granted cheers... Today Rey got (rightfully?) lambasted for that.

Batista is a badass face, HBK and HHH are smartasses semi-faces, ditto for Carlito... so I guess they don't really count as faces in the traditional meaning...

The problem is: why should WE care about Cena and Rey (to name the supposed top faces)?

Why is Cena out there hunting down "his" belt? What is he doing "for us"? I don't find myself "represented" by him, by any means... And probably it's the same for most of those who boo him.
Every face Champion of the past, yes even Warrior, gave us a reason or another to cheer for him: be it the charisma, be it the wrestling skills, be it the storyline... Cena is just there... because someone decided it was a good idea (and on a $$$ standpoint it is). But the fans who don't buy into the Chain Gang crap won't ever find a reason to cheer for him.
Hence Edge (or any other heel facing Cena) is getting his fair share of cheers. If only because he's not Cena...

Rey's case is slightly more complicated, but it's once again down to bad timing in booking. The cheese factor in the Eddie storyline is too high for 2006 standards, and the "smart", disenchanted portion of the audience felt it as an insult to Eddie's memory. So the beloved Mysterio became a leech... Add the Jobbing title reign and voila... how to kill one of the most valuable babyfaces in 3 simple moves.

Sorry if I took the long way to share my view...


Bottom line is:

100% faces don't work anymore because they aren't as interesting as other kind of faces and heels.

The quality of booking required to make them work is too high for current WWE standards.

Fans are fickle and love to go against the grain, so heels will always get their cheers. Thanks to the death of kayfabe, to the Attitude Era and to the Different shades of grey crap.

[ajdynon]

So... am I weird for still liking the faces and (usually) wanting them to win?

Not just in wrestling, but in other TV shows/media, I've pretty much always been on the side of the good guys, except in the case of the writing being so bad as to make me lose sympathy. Even with badass anti-heroes being trendy, I've never liked them very much, with a few exceptions - Stone Cold comes to mind, and Eddie as a face, but I viewed him as more of a "trickster hero" a la Bugs Bunny, someone who beats larger, more powerful opponents by outsmarting them.

As for the "establishment" thing, one of my favourite comic book stories is"Kingdom Come" which pits the traditional, noble hero-types against the new badass anti-heroes... except in this case, the badasses have BECOME the establishment.

Another interesting case I've witnessed is Cheerleader Melissa in SHIMMER, who is in a position much like Samoa Joe in TNA - she's the heel, but fans know she's an awesome wrestler and would welcome the chance to jump on the bandwagon.

I don't really know where I'm going with this. Just randomly sharing my thoughts.

[Deleted]

Because every single face they've pushed lately comes off as being an embarrassingly lame pussy. WWE face = "Yank my underwear up my ass and take my money...oh and pee on my mother too."

I thought I was tired of old heel king HHH before, but there really are not enough feet in the world to kick the ass of the new HHH as much as he needs it.

[BHB]

milkmannorm said:

well in the case of Foley and Flair I think it's more that both guys are legends and people that fans grew up with so neither can probably draw strong heel heat anymore

The sad thing is that Flair should be the heel. He's been a heel for a lot of his career and he was the one who started the beef with foley after his unprovoced attack on him in his book.

Not only was Foley the victim, but he's been a huge babyface for years. And what he said about Falir being washed up is true. Yet he's the heel. Doesn't make sense to me.

Most of the 12 year old audience havn't given a damn about the whole feud so a far anyway, as they have no idea of the real life feud between the two.

[westendriot]

The heels ARE always in the right.

I love how when they say things, it's always the truth, e.g. the anti-american characters, HBKs heel run last year, Edge last night and Chavo

[Loki]

westendriot said:

The heels ARE always in the right.

I love how when they say things, it's always the truth, e.g. the anti-american characters, HBKs heel run last year, Edge last night and Chavo

And this is happening because the writers failed to find a decent storyline for the faces.

The heels used to have a twisted, personal perception of "reality", claiming out of this world facts, or being just annoying for the sake of it.
Nowadays their words make more sense than the faces ones...

Many years ago the heels talked nonsensical crap, while faces stood for the "truth"... now it's the other way around.

We need convincing new faces, some we can really "relate" to. Not just money makers.