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Post by amsiraK on Aug 8, 2006 8:15:28 GMT -5
Which was certainly true tonight, given the "Edge is gay" chants. That was just embarassing. At least try to be creative, or dont chant anything at all. But even so, the boos for Cena were still VERY audible as J.R. screeched "LISTEN TO THAT OVATION!!" I mean, even the marks at home watching on TV can hear those boos, and when the company treats them like they're stupid they may turn on the product. I remember that even when I was a little marky little kid, I used to hate it when they said ridiculous things that I knew weren't true. They've gone back to doing that now. I have a hard time not blaming the writers. Most of the things that are going wrong are obvious. The Chavo/Rey thing... you'd have to be blind and dumb to not know how a lot of fans feel about that. Foley and Flair... How loved is Foley? People are behind him no matter what. It takes him insulting the crowd en masse to get him booed. And don't start me about the annouce team. JR is the last bastion of kayfabe. I think solid faces would work if more was put behind them. It feels like they've been shoved out onto the ramp with little development.
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Post by amsiraK on Aug 8, 2006 8:16:51 GMT -5
The heels ARE always in the right. I love how when they say things, it's always the truth, e.g. the anti-american characters, HBKs heel run last year, Edge last night and Chavo That's some of their best appeal. As my hubs says "And I'm supposed to hate this guy why?"
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Post by Avalanche Alvarez on Aug 8, 2006 8:18:00 GMT -5
Perhaps it's just bad writing, but lately it seems like WWE writes the heels to be more sympathetic than the faces. For instance, we look at Smackdown. In the whole Chavo vs. Rey thing, Chavo looks completely in the right. Everything he has said about Rey is true(hell, it was everything most fans were saying months ago when this Eddie stuff began). Chavo has perfectly good reasons for doing what he did, and Rey has said and done nothing to make it look any different. Then on RAW, Foley vs. Flair makes Foley look in the right. Flair gets owned on the mic every week and looks like at best like a putz, and at worst like a delusional old man. Then of course Cena, who gets booed against every heel. Every heel points out good points about Cena, like how he sucks as a wrestler(Angle/HHH), or gets preferential treatment(Edge). It gets even worse when you have to put up with the announcers shilling for the faces every week, and being totally hypocritical. If a face cheats it's deemed okay, but if a heel does, we're supposed to hate them. We're expected to think Randy Orton was in the wrong for slapping Lawler in retaliation for Lawler putting his hands on Orton the week before just because he was offended by Randy not wanting Lawler to touch him. So what's so hard about writing the faces to be sympathetic or likable? Good guys wear black, so why should the bad guy be completely in the wrong? It isn't until he nails you with the ring bell that you truly say "That...bastard!". It's a commonly used writing angle. Plays on your sensibilities. Screws with your head. That's Vince in a nutshell.
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Post by stevolution on Aug 8, 2006 8:40:01 GMT -5
People love Captain Jack Sparrow from Pirates of the Carribean because he's not your typically goody goody hero. If he was those movies would not have made nearly as much money as they did. I don't know why they keep pushing Cena as the goody goody face when over the past ten years that kind of hero has been proven about as popular as... Well, John Cena.
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Post by westendriot on Aug 8, 2006 8:52:10 GMT -5
The heels ARE always in the right. I love how when they say things, it's always the truth, e.g. the anti-american characters, HBKs heel run last year, Edge last night and Chavo That's some of their best appeal. As my hubs says "And I'm supposed to hate this guy why?" Exactly, I have said those exact words to friends (my partner doesn't like wrestling hahaha). Anyway, yes that's why I love the heels more than faces, the only faces I like would be...um, Carlito and...Carlito. The heels are just better. More entertaining, more charismatic, better on the mic, their insults are better, their general presence is better. The last good face was Austin/The Rock.
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Post by ray3100 on Aug 8, 2006 10:52:31 GMT -5
The last good face was Austin/The Rock.
Which pretty much backs up what everyone else on the thread has been saying. Both of those guys should have been heels. They threw out insults, they cheated, they sucker-punched people. Austin stunned Mae Young and was cheered for it. 99 times out of 100, men who assualt old ladies are considered a**holes. But not Austin.
Looking back, Austin was never a face. He didn't start out as a heel and make a face turn. He started as a heel, did everything a heel does, and got cheered for it. It was the audience that made the turn.
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Post by dennisisevil on Aug 8, 2006 10:58:33 GMT -5
Which was certainly true tonight, given the "Edge is gay" chants. That was just embarassing. At least try to be creative, or dont chant anything at all. But even so, the boos for Cena were still VERY audible as J.R. screeched "LISTEN TO THAT OVATION!!" I mean, even the marks at home watching on TV can hear those boos, and when the company treats them like they're stupid they may turn on the product. I remember that even when I was a little marky little kid, I used to hate it when they said ridiculous things that I knew weren't true. They've gone back to doing that now. Yeah it's like there's a big elephant in the room and everyone is pretending not to notice even while it eats the drapes and shits on the floor. John Cena is getting booed mercilessly. I hardly called that a great ovation. I bet JR would call Cena getting rocks thrown through his window awards.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2006 11:02:48 GMT -5
The last good face was Austin/The Rock.Which pretty much backs up what everyone else on the thread has been saying. Both of those guys should have been heels. They threw out insults, they cheated, they sucker-punched people. Austin stunned Mae Young and was cheered for it. 99 times out of 100, men who assualt old ladies are considered a**holes. But not Austin. Looking back, Austin was never a face. He didn't start out as a heel and make a face turn. He started as a heel, did everything a heel does, and got cheered for it. It was the audience that made the turn. Yeah, this is why I hate when heels get cheered by the crowd...and then for some reason, need to be turned face along with a personality change to match the fact that they are now a face. (Take Carlito, most recently) All they should do is simply change who they go up against, with no other changes to the character. Main event heel turning face after feuding with HBK? Fine your next opponent is say...Edge. That's it, done.
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Post by ajdynon on Aug 8, 2006 16:33:28 GMT -5
Edgehead Loki, you have a good point about poor writing making the heels seem to be telling the objective truth, as opposed to a twisted, personal perception of reality.
The heel who got the most genuine hatred in WWE recently was JBL.
How did he do it?
By big-noting himself, claiming that he was a "wrestling god" and making absurd claims about his accomplishments being greater than anyone else's.
- "I beat the hell out of Batista, and he deliberately got himself disqualified to avoid losing the title." - "I beat up the Blue Meanie at One Night Stand last year and got away with it, which means that I'm a greater hardcore wrestler than anyone in ECW"
Et cetera.
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Post by kitsunestar on Aug 8, 2006 16:59:07 GMT -5
But even so, the boos for Cena were still VERY audible as J.R. screeched "LISTEN TO THAT OVATION!!" I mean, even the marks at home watching on TV can hear those boos, and when the company treats them like they're stupid they may turn on the product. I remember that even when I was a little marky little kid, I used to hate it when they said ridiculous things that I knew weren't true. They've gone back to doing that now. Yeah it's like there's a big elephant in the room and everyone is pretending not to notice even while it eats the drapes and craps on the floor. John Cena is getting booed mercilessly. I hardly called that a great ovation. I bet JR would call Cena getting rocks thrown through his window awards. The thing here is, there are always enough women and little children in the audience where their shrill shrieks whenever Cena comes out are enough of a positive reaction to "overpower" the boos from the male audience when he makes his entrance. This makes it look like people aren't as sick of him as they really are.
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