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Post by arthuradams2002 on May 8, 2010 23:39:02 GMT -5
His heel character is so good that it just doesn't suit him to be a babyface anymore. It is like being type casted. Plus, wasn't he supposed to be this evil manipulator who was controlling and brainwashing Cody and Ted. Then Cody and Ted finally break free of the evil clutches of Orton, but why were they the heels in the angle ?
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Mr Captain Falcon
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Post by Mr Captain Falcon on May 8, 2010 23:40:46 GMT -5
We said the same thing about Edge. He was so good at being a heel that it was almost like being typecast, but we BEGGED for him to be a face. He shouldn't have been a full blown babyface, but a tweener as well.
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Post by arthuradams2002 on May 8, 2010 23:43:53 GMT -5
But the Orton - Legacy relationship was like the Dibiase - Virgil relationship. We waited to see Legacy break away from being slaves/servants. But, where was the payoff if they turned Orton face ?
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on May 8, 2010 23:49:59 GMT -5
is he really a babyface or is he just an austin-style face? RKOing wayne brady indicates the latter, IMHO.
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on May 8, 2010 23:57:56 GMT -5
He's a pressure-release valve for the few remaining adult fans to vent their frustration with a product that isn't aimed at them anymore. That alone makes him more valuable than most of the RAW roster.
Besides, Ted and Cody's careers are dead anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2010 23:58:47 GMT -5
Being a face isn't necessarily predicated on someone's behavior. Hulk Hogan looked like a douche when the Mega Powers broke up but he was the face because, well, he was Hulk Hogan; Austin could stun women but it didn't matter because he was Stone Cold Steve Austin; Triple H attacks people with sledgehammers but, since he's the Game, it doesn't matter. It's more like they were faces despite, and not because of, their actions.
Orton goes around beating people down. He had two fairly incompetent followers who couldn't beat him. As a fan, why should I care about them? They're dumb for hanging out with him in the first place. Orton shows that, these days, if you go around beating up enough people, the fans will start to cheer you. Very, very few people can stay heel if they get the better of their opponents night in, night out, in a convincing, physical nature. It's not real, so why would fans care if a heel can't fight back against someone? People want to cheer winners, they want to get behind people who can do the things they cannot.
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Post by arthuradams2002 on May 8, 2010 23:59:27 GMT -5
IDK, they had Ted win the draft battle royal, but he has the million dollar championship. Does that mean something. On the other hand, it seems as though Cody has been Janettied.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on May 9, 2010 0:04:51 GMT -5
IDK, they had Ted win the draft battle royal, but he has the million dollar championship. Does that mean something. On the other hand, it seems as though Cody has been Janettied. or as i put it, "barted." here's looking at you, mr. gunn.
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Brainbustaaah!
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Post by Brainbustaaah! on May 9, 2010 0:05:16 GMT -5
IDK, they had Ted win the draft battle royal, but he has the million dollar championship. Does that mean something. On the other hand, it seems as though Cody has been Janettied. I'm not sure how he's been Jannettyed. He's had a few great matches on Smackdown, and I figure he'll be in the hunt for that IC title sooner rather than later. I think it's too soon to call on the Jannetty thing.
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Yami Daimao
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Post by Yami Daimao on May 9, 2010 0:06:16 GMT -5
Cody and Ted were the ones who turned on Orton, thus making Legacy the heels.
Thing is, Orton isn't a full blown babyface, he's a tweener. He's still the same, evil character, except he's doing his own thing, winds up chasing heels, and is being cheered for it.
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barley96
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Post by barley96 on May 9, 2010 0:20:40 GMT -5
As other people have said, Orton is a tweener. He has not lost any of his heel characteristics. The only difference is that Orton is fighting mostly heels instead of faces.
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Post by arthuradams2002 on May 9, 2010 0:22:06 GMT -5
Cody and Ted were the ones who turned on Orton, thus making Legacy the heels. Thing is, Orton isn't a full blown babyface, he's a tweener. He's still the same, evil character, except he's doing his own thing, winds up chasing heels, and is being cheered for it. But in kayfabe, Orton deserved to be turned on.
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Yami Daimao
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Post by Yami Daimao on May 9, 2010 0:29:21 GMT -5
Cody and Ted were the ones who turned on Orton, thus making Legacy the heels. Thing is, Orton isn't a full blown babyface, he's a tweener. He's still the same, evil character, except he's doing his own thing, winds up chasing heels, and is being cheered for it. But in kayfabe, Orton deserved to be turned on. I guess, but most 2 on 1 attacks don't usually end up with the duo being cheered (unless it was insanely over guys like DX).
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josh
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Post by josh on May 9, 2010 0:30:28 GMT -5
I don't really think he's a tweener. Tweener usually means the person toggles between heel and face on any given night or feud, Orton just seems to be a full blown face with heel mannerisms...that sounds REALLY weird as the two definitions are similar, but different enough I believe to be separated. Early post-WM13 Austin is one of the better examples of a tweener, in my opinion.
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barley96
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Post by barley96 on May 9, 2010 0:45:09 GMT -5
I don't really think he's a tweener. Tweener usually means the person toggles between heel and face on any given night or feud, Orton just seems to be a full blown face with heel mannerisms...that sounds REALLY weird as the two definitions are similar, but different enough I believe to be separated. Early post-WM13 Austin is one of the better examples of a tweener, in my opinion. Orton recently RKO'd the guest host and John Cena. I would call this being a heel.
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luiscurse
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Post by luiscurse on May 9, 2010 0:53:47 GMT -5
I don't really think he's a tweener. Tweener usually means the person toggles between heel and face on any given night or feud, Orton just seems to be a full blown face with heel mannerisms...that sounds REALLY weird as the two definitions are similar, but different enough I believe to be separated. Early post-WM13 Austin is one of the better examples of a tweener, in my opinion. Orton recently RKO'd the guest host and John Cena. I would call this being a heel. To a monster pop from the crowd, plus he is feuding with a full blown heel, I'd say thats a tweener in my book.
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Post by Raja Lion on May 9, 2010 1:00:26 GMT -5
I dont look at Orton as a face at all. Hes still The Viper and he'll still crush you if you get in his way. They're obviously pushing as a tweener more than anything else. You wont see him saving John Cena or anything like that.
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Post by The Deadly Snake on May 9, 2010 1:30:44 GMT -5
The thing is, this reminds me of the Superman vs. Batman debate. John Cena vs. Randy Orton. Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage. Hulk Hogan vs. the Rock. Hulk Hogan vs. Steve Austin. Wholesome vs. Cool/Realistic.
Most people can't play Wholesome faces. And today, most people don't like Wholesome faces. They came off as campy, stale, and old-fashioned.
Realistic/Cool faces/tweeners come off as edgy, new, and modern. That's the divide.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on May 9, 2010 1:56:03 GMT -5
Maybe because you don't like Orton... I don't so I don't buy it but I have accepted it since I don't care much for RAW
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Post by Nic Nemeth on May 9, 2010 2:11:46 GMT -5
IDK, they had Ted win the draft battle royal, but he has the million dollar championship. Does that mean something. On the other hand, it seems as though Cody has been Janettied. I never knew beating John Morrison clean on your SD debut rather than losing twice in a row to Morrison in his RAW debut as well as getting bitchslapped by his tag partner meant you're the Jannety of the team. Also Orton isn't a face at all, he's a jerk.
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