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Post by rrm15 on May 9, 2010 2:40:33 GMT -5
They turned Orton face and not Legacy because no one gives a shit about Legacy. Yeah, through their booking they were able to get the crowd behind Cody and Ted for one night when they separately teased dissension in the Legacy ranks, but in a long term sense in every city they would not have been able to pull off a Legacy face turn. The crowd simply would not have gone for it. Its like how in some cities the crowd cheered for Orton over Kofi when they were trying to get Kofi over to the next level. In some cities it worked, but overall the crowd just liked Orton better.
Also, it doesn't matter if you "buy" Orton as a face, the crowd goes nuts for him and thats the only thing that matters.
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Post by The Corporate Strudel on May 9, 2010 3:01:37 GMT -5
What Rican said.
Crowd loves Orton, their collective opinion matters more than any one.
It's working.
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Post by Indifference Abounds on May 9, 2010 3:37:24 GMT -5
In my opinion Orton hasn't really turned face, it's just that his opponents are now heels. "The Viper" has gone from a treacherous snake to something of a vigilante.
Orton is getting huge pops now and it's in the WWE's best interest to keep his character pretty much as it is, just in case any changes mess things up horribly. By pitting him against heels, and letting them play the typical heel shtick, it moves his character further into face territory by comparison without actually changing it. The crowd wanted to cheer for Orton before and now that he's taking on guys they aren't supposed to like it makes it completely justified.
I'd say the main problem with his character at the moment is that it'll only really work against heels and it relies entirely on the other person having sufficient mic skills and charisma to carry the feud. As seen on "The Cutting Edge", Orton really seems to rely on the other guy digging his own grave as he can't really talk for fear of reinforcing his own position as a heel. So long as Orton's character and motivations remain relatively ambiguous his character will work but this means that he's likely to crush the support of any face who comes his way.
Orton isn’t a babyface, he’s merely giving the people what they want.
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Post by wwefan78 on May 9, 2010 7:27:52 GMT -5
Orton isn’t a babyface, he’s merely giving the people what they want. Ain't that the truth. People need to forget about how you expect a face or heel to act in certain situations. It doesn't really matter. All that matters is the crowd reaction. If you get cheers, you are face in the eyes of the fans even if you don't act like a classic babyface. Orton acts like a heel but gets a face reaction. Any reaction is good so WWE better run with it and not mess it up..
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,520
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Post by Ben Wyatt on May 9, 2010 7:48:22 GMT -5
He reminds me of Jake Roberts in the sense that he didnt really turn "good". He just decided to change who he f***ed with.
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allenfan69
Team Rocket
I came to listen to Ken Resnick mumble.
Posts: 890
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Post by allenfan69 on May 9, 2010 8:08:28 GMT -5
I've never liked Orton in any of his incarnations. I can't even pinpoint why I don't like him. I just don't. And I can't understand why the crowd has gotten behind him.
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Mesousa
Unicron
It slips off, slips off~
Posts: 3,498
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Post by Mesousa on May 9, 2010 8:10:07 GMT -5
It's the fans' fault.
Their punishment? Turn Edge heel for no real reason.
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Post by The Genesis of KoOS on May 9, 2010 9:04:28 GMT -5
Everyone sucks as a face.
There. I just saved everyone some time.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on May 9, 2010 11:36:50 GMT -5
Orton isn’t a babyface, he’s merely giving the people what they want. Ain't that the truth. People need to forget about how you expect a face or heel to act in certain situations. It doesn't really matter. All that matters is the crowd reaction. If you get cheers, you are face in the eyes of the fans even if you don't act like a classic babyface. Orton acts like a heel but gets a face reaction. Any reaction is good so WWE better run with it and not mess it up.. Its what most people have been asking the WWE to do. A heel gets cheered he gets turned face and they change everything the fans liked. Here he gets to turn but the WWE is booking him the same.
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Post by cobrafan on May 9, 2010 11:50:59 GMT -5
Orton's current charater is ok enough. WWE had their shot at turning DiBiase & Rhodes into babyfaces last fall when the crowd was practically begging for either one to deck Orton. They even had a "Cody" chant going one episode...strange as that sounds. Same for DiBiase, but WWE chickened out and both ended up looking like total idiots in the process.
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jamielowndes {N}
Unicron
The following post has been paid for by the Nexus World Order
Posts: 3,240
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on May 9, 2010 12:57:52 GMT -5
He is brilliant at the moment, because anti-faces are generally great when played by the right people. Wise-ass Cena, Psycho Orton, Steve Austin, ECW Angle, I could go on.
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Post by The Deadly Snake on May 9, 2010 15:53:16 GMT -5
He reminds me of Jake Roberts in the sense that he didnt really turn "good". He just decided to change who he f***ed with. I would so Jake "The Snake" Roberts is a precursor to "Stone Cold Steve Austin (who have some snake motifs in his merchandise), who himself is the precursor to Randy "The Viper" Orton. IDK, they had Ted win the draft battle royal, but he has the million dollar championship. Does that mean something. On the other hand, it seems as though Cody has been Janettied. I never knew beating John Morrison clean on your SD debut rather than losing twice in a row to Morrison in his RAW debut as well as getting bitchslapped by his tag partner meant you're the Jannety of the team. Also Orton isn't a face at all, he's a jerk. I agree, but I think it might be because Michael Hayes is booking Cody Rhodes. That's a huge difference for whoever is booking on RAW.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on May 9, 2010 16:23:54 GMT -5
The move got over, the RKO. If you watched WCW at the time, it's almost exactly the same way DDP got pops when he was still a heel(pops were why he was turned). The kind of move it is, it's a perfect pop move, as opposed to others like Cena's or Batista's, which are setup finishers.
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Post by The Deadly Snake on May 9, 2010 17:03:14 GMT -5
Besides, DDP was always better as a face. He's one of the few people that can play a wholesome face naturally.
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
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Post by Yami Daimao on May 9, 2010 17:38:04 GMT -5
I would so Jake "The Snake" Roberts is a precursor to "Stone Cold Steve Austin (who have some snake motifs in his merchandise), who himself is the precursor to Randy "The Viper" Orton. I never thought about that, that's pretty cool. From a normal snake, to a rattlesnake, now to a viper. So I guess this means the next person to take the mantle after Orton is going to be considered "The Cobra"?
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on May 9, 2010 17:52:50 GMT -5
His heel character is so good that it just doesn't suit him to be a babyface anymore. It is like being type casted. Plus, wasn't he supposed to be this evil manipulator who was controlling and brainwashing Cody and Ted. Then Cody and Ted finally break free of the evil clutches of Orton, but why were they the heels in the angle ? no, he was never meant to be "brainwashing" them. That's a bit fans seem to think is used far more often than it is. Ted and Cody thought they could get ahead by hanging on Orton's coattails. I also never saw Orton as a manipulator. He was mostly a violent lunatic who consistently formed alliances of convienience. The nature of these alliances make it eqaully believable that someone would turn on him, as he would turn on them.
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Post by hbk4ever09 on May 9, 2010 17:55:26 GMT -5
He should be a strict tweener. It's when he's cheered most. If he's in the ring with Babyface A and Heel B he should RKO them both.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on May 9, 2010 17:55:36 GMT -5
Cody and Ted were the ones who turned on Orton, thus making Legacy the heels. Thing is, Orton isn't a full blown babyface, he's a tweener. He's still the same, evil character, except he's doing his own thing, winds up chasing heels, and is being cheered for it. But in kayfabe, Orton deserved to be turned on. But none of them were sympathetic. Orton deserved to be turned on because he wasn't helping Ted and Cody fulfill the goals they'd joined him to meet. He wasn't a great boss, but there have certainly been worse.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on May 9, 2010 17:56:58 GMT -5
Ain't that the truth. People need to forget about how you expect a face or heel to act in certain situations. It doesn't really matter. All that matters is the crowd reaction. If you get cheers, you are face in the eyes of the fans even if you don't act like a classic babyface. Orton acts like a heel but gets a face reaction. Any reaction is good so WWE better run with it and not mess it up.. Its what most people have been asking the WWE to do. A heel gets cheered he gets turned face and they change everything the fans liked. Here he gets to turn but the WWE is booking him the same. because they assume it is the person's presence, not his actions getting the cheers.
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Post by The Deadly Snake on May 9, 2010 21:34:39 GMT -5
I would so Jake "The Snake" Roberts is a precursor to "Stone Cold Steve Austin (who have some snake motifs in his merchandise), who himself is the precursor to Randy "The Viper" Orton. I never thought about that, that's pretty cool. From a normal snake, to a rattlesnake, now to a viper. So I guess this means the next person to take the mantle after Orton is going to be considered "The Cobra"? They have have these incredible "snap" finishers that people just have to cheer for. Jake "The Snake" Roberts: "DDT! DDT! DDT! DDT! DDT! DDT!""Stone Cold" Steve Austin: "Stunner! Stunner! Stunner! Stunner! Stunner! Stunner!"Randy "The Viper" Orton: "RKO! RKO! RKO! RKO! RKO! RKO!"There's an old story that Jake Roberts tells where he and Hulk Hogan were supposed to fued. I think, in situation where Jake Roberts ended up using the DDT on Hulk Hogan, the fans were chanting "DDT! DDT! DDT!", during a time when Hulk Hogan was still popular. Viince, Hogan, and himself all agreed to cut the fued short, because they all fought it was a bad idea; Jake Roberts thought it was a bad idea because he believed he made a better heel, and therefore, made more money as heel than as a face.
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