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Post by Tyfo on Aug 16, 2010 22:17:42 GMT -5
Most of their wins were flukes.
Randy Orton was to distracted to finish of Gabriel, but then still made time to RKO after being counted out.
Slater dives in for a countout win, and gets speared after wards.
Miz clocks Bryan again with the briefcase for Tarver to get the pin.
Otunga contributed nothing in his win.
And of course Darren Young lost.
The only ones that actually looked strong were Barrett and Sheffield. Otherwise they were made to look like lucky chumps.
So how are they stronger? Because they are down a member? Because they can get lucky countout wins and then get their ass kicked?
Would 5-6 CLEAN wins kill anyones credibility? No.
One of my biggest pet peeves right now is the refusal to have heels go over clean. They ALWAYS have to be "Lucky" or cheat or have help. They can hardly ever just win decisively and convincingly.
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Post by BorneAgain on Aug 16, 2010 22:20:11 GMT -5
The funny thing is Young actually lasted a decent time with Cena and lasted longer in the STF than Barrett did. (And stepping against the biggest star in the company knowing your spot on the line was pretty ballsy)
The only thing that Young lacked was an enemy of Cena to help him win his match.
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Aug 16, 2010 22:21:20 GMT -5
Miz didn't touch Bryan until after the match.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Aug 16, 2010 22:21:54 GMT -5
OK, I'm a newer fan... but isn't that how it's ALWAYS worked in wrestling?
I mean... they're heels. Giving them questionable wins helps them get heat. I'm totally not understanding the problem here.
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Post by italliansausagepat on Aug 16, 2010 22:22:32 GMT -5
Who's the next weak link? Im hoping Mr.lame spine busta Otunga.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Aug 16, 2010 22:23:43 GMT -5
Also, another thing having all those screwy finishes did was help progress storylines that would have been otherwise ignored yeah?
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Post by Tyfo on Aug 16, 2010 22:24:29 GMT -5
OK, I'm a newer fan... but isn't that how it's ALWAYS worked in wrestling? I mean... they're heels. Giving them questionable wins helps them get heat. I'm totally not understanding the problem here. To build a heel as an actual threat they've got to beat somebody worthwhile clean and in a decisive manner. Now pretty much everybody is the "cowardly" heel.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Aug 16, 2010 22:26:46 GMT -5
OK, I'm a newer fan... but isn't that how it's ALWAYS worked in wrestling? I mean... they're heels. Giving them questionable wins helps them get heat. I'm totally not understanding the problem here. To build a heel as an actual threat they've got to beat somebody worthwhile clean and in a decisive manner. If you say so. I think every finish except maybe Slater's made sense tonight and I'm not even remotely bothered by them. Bryan couldn't lose cleanly so soon after coming back. Randy losing cleanly to Justin Gabriel would have been... well it wouldn't have gone over well.
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Post by mrjl on Aug 16, 2010 22:28:18 GMT -5
OK, I'm a newer fan... but isn't that how it's ALWAYS worked in wrestling? I mean... they're heels. Giving them questionable wins helps them get heat. I'm totally not understanding the problem here. To build a heel as an actual threat they've got to beat somebody worthwhile clean and in a decisive manner. Now pretty much everybody is the "cowardly" heel. Not when there's six of them and one or two of the other guys. And actually, they aren't cowardly. Everyone of them went out for their match. Gabriel was screwed with his choice of opponent. And Slater won the smart way.
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Post by Vampiro138 on Aug 16, 2010 22:30:02 GMT -5
show me one clean win the nWo ever had without interference of any kind...
show me on clean win DX had without cheating or interference...
show me one clean win the main event mafia had without interference...
show me one clean win the nation had without interference...
show me one clean win the horsemen had without interference...
by the rules of "no clean win = looking weak" then Ric Flair, Hollywood Hogan, HHH, Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Arn and Ole Anderson, The Rock are the most weak people in the history of wrestling...its how stable's work in wrestling.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Aug 16, 2010 22:30:39 GMT -5
Also, another thing having all those screwy finishes did was help progress storylines that would have been otherwise ignored yeah? Using a screwy finish once is fine and twice is pushing it but, three times is overkill. I mean Heath Slater has pinned Jericho twice, cleanly, but, cannot even get a fluke pin on Edge so WWE uses the exact same finish that they used not even an hour earlier. You could go 1) Miz distracts Bryan allowing Tarver to win. 2) Sheamus and Orton brawl off, Gabriel gets a count out win. Orton can still RKO Gabriel. 3) Slater gets a fluke roll up and wins. Edge can still spear Slater. Three different finishes, all accomplishing the same thing.
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Post by Andy Martin on Aug 16, 2010 22:30:47 GMT -5
How ISN'T Nexus stronger(Besides Otunga still being there)
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Aug 16, 2010 22:31:43 GMT -5
To build a heel as an actual threat they've got to beat somebody worthwhile clean and in a decisive manner. If you say so. I think every finish except maybe Slater's made sense tonight and I'm not even remotely bothered by them. Bryan couldn't lose cleanly so soon after coming back. Randy losing cleanly to Justin Gabriel would have been... well it wouldn't have gone over well. Well here's an idea. If they can't take the loss, give them someone who can. Orton had nothing to do with Team WWE so I dunno what he was doing in there. The thing with Sheamus could have been done any number of ways. How ISN'T Nexus stronger(Besides Otunga still being there) How are they? Gabriel and Tarver just looked like being in the right place, in the right time which doesn't help anybody. Slater's win was made to look like a fluke, especially with the postmatch spear. Otunga did nothing while Sheffield did all the work.
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Aug 16, 2010 22:33:33 GMT -5
I probably would agree if it wasn't par the course for both wrestling/WWE as a whole. If you're expecting clean finishes all the time on a weekly wrestling show, I wouldn't know why. I didn't really mind apart from a few of the match lengths, no way was Slater going over Edge clean or Gabriel over Randy without it looking plain odd or being given a LOT of time, which on a 2-hour RAW just wasn't going to happen.
We really shouldn't be worrying about their credibility; they've been dominating RAW for months and they more than held their own against some of the top names in a near 40-minute tag match, albeit losing, and judging by tonight still have all their heat intact. I just hope they get rid of Otunga as well, as Wade/Gabriel/Slater/Skip/Tarver make a great nucleus.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Aug 16, 2010 22:37:15 GMT -5
If you say so. I think every finish except maybe Slater's made sense tonight and I'm not even remotely bothered by them. Bryan couldn't lose cleanly so soon after coming back. Randy losing cleanly to Justin Gabriel would have been... well it wouldn't have gone over well. Well here's an idea. If they can't take the loss, give them someone who can. Orton had nothing to do with Team WWE so I dunno what he was doing in there. The thing with Sheamus could have been done any number of ways. It's Orton, he needed to get on the show and it was an easy way to do it. Guys, I understand what happened wasn't THE perfect way to do things and some of these other suggestions are great. But what actually happened wasn't as damaging as people want to believe.
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Post by Tyfo on Aug 16, 2010 22:37:30 GMT -5
My big problem with it is they showed us nothing at all new. No reason at all to see Nexus as more dangerous or more of a threat then before.
They lost at SummerSlam, so this was supposed to be the WWE's time to say, hey these guys are still very much a force.
But all we saw was Barrett and Sheffield look strong, and Darren Young lose, which we also saw at SummerSlam and we've seen for weeks now.
I need to see Tarver destroying somebody and knocking them out. Or Gabriel just using his speed to blow by someone and get a clean win off his 450.
Just something that says, yeah these guys can beat anybody put in front of them.
What more do we know now? That they'll beat down one of their own guys for losing?
The difference between these guys and other stables are that they are rookies, people don't know them, meaning that they have to see it to believe it. People knew guys like Hogan or Flair or Michaels or HHH or Rock, etc. could win on high levels once they were in their stables. Nobody has that faith in even Wade Barrett yet most likely. They need wins, not just gang beatdowns to continue to be seen as a threat over a lengthy period of time.
Of course, they may not be a long term plan though, so who knows.
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Post by bjboston on Aug 16, 2010 22:41:28 GMT -5
OK, I'm a newer fan... but isn't that how it's ALWAYS worked in wrestling? I mean... they're heels. Giving them questionable wins helps them get heat. I'm totally not understanding the problem here. To build a heel as an actual threat they've got to beat somebody worthwhile clean and in a decisive manner. Now pretty much everybody is the "cowardly" heel. I agree with the first dude. And not with the second dude. (I'm assuming you're both dudes).
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Post by erik316wttn on Aug 16, 2010 22:41:50 GMT -5
I could have lived with the WWE win last night had Nexus had a clean sweep tonight. Instead, Cena goes over AGAIN and the Nexus is already eating itself... WAY too early in my book. They could be starting to ruin what could be the best angle in years.
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Post by Magnum DA on Aug 16, 2010 22:43:53 GMT -5
Of course, they may not be a long term plan though, so who knows. I've been wrong on many of the predictions and twists that I thought they would make...but one thing I'm certain of is that this is going to be a long-term storyline that takes many twists and will include alliances that we never thought would happen. In addition, these guys could be threats in future PPVs, including as a Bragging Rights team, Survivor Series team, TLC, the Royal Rumble, and even Wrestlemania. Will it go past that? Maybe...who knows. But I'll agree with you, they better have something cooking, and soon...because losing this match and then taking out a member are two major consecutive setbacks, and these guys need an addition to the group or another major beatdown angle to regain some credibility...
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Aug 16, 2010 22:44:19 GMT -5
The difference between these guys and other stables are that they are rookies, people don't know them, meaning that they have to see it to believe it. This is what people seem to fail to grasp. They throw around comparisons to the nWo and the InVasion, forgetting that the likes of Hogan, Nash, Booker T and DDP were established stars who'd been performing at the top level for years. And on the other side of this, whole principle that they shouldn't win because they are rookies, seems to negate the possiblity of debuting anyone new ever.
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