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Post by Tyfo on Sept 14, 2010 13:55:32 GMT -5
The Connecticut Post has an article up, noting that WWE is under investigation by the state of Connecticut. The investigation is in regards to how the company classifies their workers, which means they are looking at the "independent contractor" classification. WWE spokesman Robert Zimmerman is quoted in the article, saying the following…
"WWE has always complied with the law. Up until this election, WWE has not been fined nor investigated in the past for independent contractor classification. However, curiously the state of Connecticut is currently conducting an audit of WWE's classification of independent contractors. WWE constantly reviews its internal practices and procedures to comply with ever-changing employee laws."
This is a major story if they go through with this. More as we get it.
I hope Connecticut put lead investigator Daniel Beck on the case!
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Sept 14, 2010 13:58:29 GMT -5
Up until this election, WWE has not been fined nor investigated in the past for independent contractor classification. What about me?! What about Raven?!
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Sept 14, 2010 14:09:10 GMT -5
Up until this election, WWE has not been fined nor investigated in the past for independent contractor classification. What about me?! What about Raven?! Now that was funny. Bravo. I think this could be a pretty big thing if they are investigated. If it does go through I wonder what will happen. Both arguments can be made for the wrestlers being independent contractors or employees but I think most people would consider them employees although it isn't a very cut and dry thing because the difference between an employee and independent contractor has been a pretty big issue and debated for a long time now. I think it has the potential to really hurt WWE but it also has the potential to get the wrestlers in WWE more benefits which are required for employees. here is an old news piece about the lawsuit Raven filed. Should WWE wrestlers be independent contractors or employees?
The following statement, buried in WWE's quarterly stock filing, could have major future ramifications.
"Levy et al. On July 24, 2008, we were served with a summons from three of our former talent purporting to be on behalf of themselves and a class of similarly situated persons. The lawsuit alleges breach of contract and unjust enrichment arising from our treating them as independent contractors rather than employees, which the plaintiffs allege is an erroneous classification. We have not formally responded to the suit but intend to deny any liability for claims asserted against us and to defend vigorously against the suit."
The Levy being mentioned here is Scott "Raven" Levy who is apparently challenging WWE's classification of wrestlers. WWE classifies its wrestlers as "independent contractors" which allows them to not have to pay benefits and do other things that they otherwise would have to do for "employees." This has been a topic that has been debated for years. Some think WWE is grievously at fault while others think they do just enough to get away with it. If the court sides with Levy, it would lead to major financial ramifications for WWE.
Credit: WrestlingObserver.com For those that don't know Raven's suit was thrown out of court and did not go any further. I'm not sure how long it went on though or what level of the justice system it was thrown out at. I have a feeling this all has something to do with someone's senate campaign.
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Sept 14, 2010 14:10:02 GMT -5
It's about damn time.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
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Post by Hawk Hart on Sept 14, 2010 14:13:23 GMT -5
This. Let's get these guys some heathcare.
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Sept 14, 2010 14:20:02 GMT -5
Here is the full story on how Raven, Kanyon, and Mike Sander's lawsuit got dismissed from Law.com.
A federal judge has bodyslammed former World Wrestling Entertainment wrestlers by dismissing a lawsuit that claimed the wrestlers had been denied certain economic benefits because they were misclassified as independent contractors.
Former WWE performers Scott "Raven" Levy, Christopher "Kanyon" Kluscartis and "Above Average" Michael Sanders claimed they should have been treated as employees because the Stamford, Conn.-based WWE controls their salaries, performance locations, costumes, training regimen and the storylines they follow. Further, the lawsuit alleged, the WWE improperly withheld Social Security and Medicare taxes from the federal government because of the wrestlers' independent contractor status.
The wrestlers' attorney, David Golub of Silver, Golub & Teitell in Stamford, also claimed that the wrestlers' were denied employee benefits such as health care, paid sick time and vacation.
Golub was seeking class-action status, but late last week Senior U.S. District Judge Peter Dorsey granted WWE's motion to dismiss in federal court in New Haven. He said the wrestlers signed a contract that acknowledged their status as independent contractors.
The issue of workers' classification has been a hot topic since the late 1990s when Microsoft was found to have misclassified some workers as independent contractors and temporary employees. Employers sometimes take such steps to cut benefit and liability insurance costs.
WWE attorney Jerry McDevitt, of K&L Gates, in Pittsburgh, said the most recent lawsuit was the first against WWE alleging worker misclassification. The decision "vindicates our position that these are big guys who signed big guy contracts," McDevitt told The American Lawyer. "And that the WWE paid them every dime they promised to pay them."
Golub told the Law Tribune he was "surprised" that his claims under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act were not addressed in Dorsey's ruling, especially after the case was removed from state court to federal court last summer.
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Post by The Deadly Snake on Sept 14, 2010 14:52:30 GMT -5
The problem i see is, do ALL wrestlers, including wrestlers outside of the WWE, should be considered employees? I think not. In most cases, most of them are free to do as they please.
The problem really lies with contracts that make a person exclusive to a promotion. In a case like WWE's, these workers are more like employees.
But the problem is, should treat WWE workers differferently than others of the industry? I would lean yes, but that goes into having a different standards and other issues. Some say they should have ai dfferent standard... but... I can see the other argument.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Sept 14, 2010 15:30:35 GMT -5
As I understand it, Raven, Kanyon, and Sanders's case was thrown out because a judge ruled that the three of them had no standing to bring it either because they were not current performers in WWE or because too much time had elapsed since they worked there. The actual merits of their case were not judged on at all. It would take a current WWE performer to bring such a suit for the actual merits to be judged.
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Post by Red Impact on Sept 14, 2010 15:33:59 GMT -5
This. Let's get these guys some heathcare. If you mean insurance, that's probably still a pipedream. The rates wrestlers would have to pay an insurance company (if any would accept them) would be astronomical, and if they were put into group with every other employee with the company to try to bring it down, the rates would still likely be extremely high. Besides, WWE already pays for a good chunk of healthcare out of pocket, IIRC. What they do need is paid vacation time. There's no way that schedule they're on should stand.
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Sajoa Moe
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Sajoa Moe on Sept 14, 2010 15:35:47 GMT -5
That's the worst PPV title I've ever heard.
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Post by Red Impact on Sept 14, 2010 15:41:28 GMT -5
That's the worst PPV title I've ever heard. What if Sam Waterston was the guest host and the Law and Order theme was the official song?
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nonrev
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,303
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Post by nonrev on Sept 14, 2010 16:48:56 GMT -5
This. Let's get these guys some heathcare. If you mean insurance, that's probably still a pipedream. The rates wrestlers would have to pay an insurance company (if any would accept them) would be astronomical, and if they were put into group with every other employee with the company to try to bring it down, the rates would still likely be extremely high. Besides, WWE already pays for a good chunk of healthcare out of pocket, IIRC. What they do need is paid vacation time. There's no way that schedule they're on should stand. Health insurance rates are astronomical for everybody these days, but I don't see why professional wrestlers couldn't get the same rates and coverage professional athletes or stuntmen receive. I'm aware wrestling 200+ dates a year will probably lead to more injury then most stuntmen or athletes which is why I agree that they should have more paid vacation time. In the end it comes down to whether or not someone can be an independent contractor, while in no way can he/she take on any other contract while under a WWE contract. Wikipdeia has good information about what an independent contractor is supposed to be as well. Here's some things that leap out at me Unlike an employee, an independent contractor does not work regularly for an employer but works as and when required, during which time she or he may be subject to the Law of Agency. Independent contractors are usually paid on a freelance basis.
In the United States fraudulent classification of employees as "independent contractors" in order to avoid taxation and regulation is widespread
There are several monetary incentives that are guaranteed to employees in the United States, but not independent contractors. Examples include worker's compensation and unemployment insurance.
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Post by molson5 on Sept 14, 2010 17:19:59 GMT -5
There are several monetary incentives that are guaranteed to employees in the United States, but not independent contractors. Examples include worker's compensation and unemployment insurance. [/blockquote][/quote] Those are the big two (along with the tax issues). More general "health insurance" certainly isn't required - there's plenty of employers who don't offer their employees that. Worker's compensation, on the other hand, would obviously be insanely expensive and difficult proposition for the WWE, since everyone there gets "injured on the job". The courts would have a great time sorting out what injuries prevent someone from coming to work as a professional wrestler. It boggles the mind how that would play out. A jobber could get a knee injury and the WWE would be on the hook for his salary for years. If this ever actually came down, the WWE would have to re-structure their entire talent philosophy. Maybe bring a few A-list guys on as full-time employees, fire everyone else, and retain a rotating group of guys on a show-by-show basis as their independent contractors (guys would would be free to work for other companies).
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on Sept 14, 2010 17:47:35 GMT -5
Well this just got interesting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2010 17:51:14 GMT -5
There are several monetary incentives that are guaranteed to employees in the United States, but not independent contractors. Examples include worker's compensation and unemployment insurance. [/blockquote][/quote] Those are the big two (along with the tax issues). More general "health insurance" certainly isn't required - there's plenty of employers who don't offer their employees that. Worker's compensation, on the other hand, would obviously be insanely expensive and difficult proposition for the WWE, since everyone there gets "injured on the job". The courts would have a great time sorting out what injuries prevent someone from coming to work as a professional wrestler. It boggles the mind how that would play out. A jobber could get a knee injury and the WWE would be on the hook for his salary for years. If this ever actually came down, the WWE would have to re-structure their entire talent philosophy. Maybe bring a few A-list guys on as full-time employees, fire everyone else, and retain a rotating group of guys on a show-by-show basis as their independent contractors (guys would would be free to work for other companies).[/quote] That would totally change the very foundation of pro wrestling and completely revert it back to the territory days
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Sept 14, 2010 17:58:18 GMT -5
Lets try to keep the election out and look at the case on its own merrits.
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Psychoblue
Don Corleone
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Post by Psychoblue on Sept 14, 2010 18:00:17 GMT -5
There are several monetary incentives that are guaranteed to employees in the United States, but not independent contractors. Examples include worker's compensation and unemployment insurance. [/blockquote][/quote] Doesn't the 90-day no-compete clause sort of act as unemployment benefits since they still get paid?
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Post by Slammy Award-Winning Cannibal on Sept 14, 2010 18:09:10 GMT -5
Lets try to keep the election out and look at the case on its own merrits. I understand the idea of keeping this within the topic posted but that doesn't change the fact that this investigation is a politically driven move to bruise Linda McMahon in the final 7 weeks of election season. These kinds of moves are done ALL the time in politics so I think it's fair to post that and call this a non-issue. I guess it's just a tad strange to delete posts that pertain to the genesis of this post's topic. That's all. EDIT: Since I was being accused of going off-topic, below is the article in full courtesy of www.ctpost.com/news/article/WWE-State-investigating-company-for-657735.php.
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randomranter
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Post by randomranter on Sept 14, 2010 18:09:32 GMT -5
Those are the big two (along with the tax issues). More general "health insurance" certainly isn't required - there's plenty of employers who don't offer their employees that. Worker's compensation, on the other hand, would obviously be insanely expensive and difficult proposition for the WWE, since everyone there gets "injured on the job". The courts would have a great time sorting out what injuries prevent someone from coming to work as a professional wrestler. It boggles the mind how that would play out. A jobber could get a knee injury and the WWE would be on the hook for his salary for years. If this ever actually came down, the WWE would have to re-structure their entire talent philosophy. Maybe bring a few A-list guys on as full-time employees, fire everyone else, and retain a rotating group of guys on a show-by-show basis as their independent contractors (guys would would be free to work for other companies). That would totally change the very foundation of pro wrestling and completely revert it back to the territory days That may not necessarily be a bad thing.
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Post by Red Impact on Sept 14, 2010 18:19:19 GMT -5
If you mean insurance, that's probably still a pipedream. The rates wrestlers would have to pay an insurance company (if any would accept them) would be astronomical, and if they were put into group with every other employee with the company to try to bring it down, the rates would still likely be extremely high. Besides, WWE already pays for a good chunk of healthcare out of pocket, IIRC. What they do need is paid vacation time. There's no way that schedule they're on should stand. Health insurance rates are astronomical for everybody these days, but I don't see why professional wrestlers couldn't get the same rates and coverage professional athletes or stuntmen receive. I'm aware wrestling 200+ dates a year will probably lead to more injury then most stuntmen or athletes which is why I agree that they should have more paid vacation time. Because it's not in the insurance company's interest to take a subgroup of employees that are pretty much guaranteed to get banged up, beat up, and injured for more than 2/3 of the year, and have a history of doing so. That's where the phrase "uninsurable" comes in. Because some people, and even some groups, are nearly incapable of getting insurance because insurance companies know they're going to take a loss. In a group, that can be mitigated by having enough people of normal health that won't have claims. But in a group of wrestlers, that's not going to happen, because nearly all of them get injured and would have claims at some point. Mix them in with a group of, say, every other employee, and every non-wrestler employee now has insane health-insurance premiums. That's likely why WWE just up and pays most of the expenses. But yeah, as was said, health insurance isn't mandated either, so even if they were made full employees (which they totally are), the chances of them getting that would likely be slim.
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