How necessary is FCW/development for 'veterans'?

[Jimmy]

I was thinking about how Tyler Black is going from ROH Champion to a WWE development deal and it struck me how the development deal is really a fairly recent thing in WWE. In the past 5 years they've signed guys away from or after stints with ROH and TNA like CM Punk, Kaval, Daniel Bryan, Vance Archer, Consequences Creed, Evan Bourne, Colt Cabana, Brent Albright, and others. All of them have gone to development first (or are still there).

And it got me to thinking about how when talent moved quickly in the late 90's/early 00's, there weren't really 'developmental deals'. The WWF didn't sign Chris Jericho away from WCW to put him in dark matches. Benoit, Guerrero, Saturn, and Malenko didn't get name changes. Guys from that little bingo hall like Tazz and Rob Van Dam were made out to be big deals, even if just for a short while. And even 'less notable names' like Jerry Lynn, Justin Credible, Spike Dudley, and Rhino got to go straight to the main roster. They had a development system set up for guys who were relatively new to the business or were toiling in the indies. The late 90's 'Funkin' Dojo' included names like Kurt Angle, Edge, Christian, Test, Albert, Shawn Stasiak, Steve Corino, Christopher Daniels and allowed for guys like Dr. Death and other signees to get in some training.

And then when the WWF had all of the talent from the three big promotions, they started sending guys to development. Some just to keep and shape and others to 'teach'. A guy like Sean O'Haire saw his mic skills improve but his overall skills decrease as he became bulkier and slower in the ring after a year in OVW. Chuck Palumbo got to stay on the main roster and Mark Jindrak was sent to development purgatory. It seemed to be fairly random who the WWF sent to HWA/OVW and who they kept up.

I guess the question I pose is what aspects do you think FCW teaches to those who have performed on TV or PPV, live or taped? Does the locker room experience help? What factors does WWE consider when giving a guy a development deal or a main roster deal? And basically, what changed? Is the 'WWE style' a reality and not a myth?

[Tyfo]

I've always seen the developmental deals for guys who are experienced as a way to buy time for creative to come up with something for them or waiting for the right spot to open up for them.

I doubt they sign these guys to those deals thinking, yeah that guy really needs a lot of work and isn't ready yet.

It is semi-frustrating to me when they do it with TNA guys they bring in, when, like you said, just 10 years ago they would bring in guys from ECW with their names and gimmicks in tact and treat them as a known commodity. Even guys like Stevie Richards or the Blue Meanie, etc.

Your telling me that a Ron "The Truth" Killings, or Low Ki, or Lance Hoyt, or Chris Harris, is so "unknown" to the fans that they have to start over with them?

Or is it just the fact that they want to make them their own and not reference anything they've done. Which is stupid in my eyes, because it kills off the instant credibility they would have.

People talk about most WWE fans not watching TNA or anything else, so they wouldn't know the guys. But how many of those same fans in 1999 knew who Stevie Richards was? When he came in, they didn't treat him as some band new up and comer.

[Deleted]

Sept 13, 2010 13:11:31 GMT -5 Tyfo said:

I've always seen the developmental deals for guys who are experienced as a way to buy time for creative to come up with something for them or waiting for the right spot to open up for them.

I doubt they sign these guys to those deals thinking, yeah that guy really needs a lot of work and isn't ready yet.

Yeah - this is what I think too. Its a way to keep them working while creative works out a way to insert them into the current programming.

Sept 13, 2010 13:11:31 GMT -5 Tyfo said:

It is semi-frustrating to me when they do it with TNA guys they bring in, when, like you said, just 10 years ago they would bring in guys from ECW with their names and gimmicks in tact and treat them as a known commodity. Even guys like Stevie Richards or the Blue Meanie, etc.

Your telling me that a Ron "The Truth" Killings, or Low Ki, or Lance Hoyt, or Chris Harris, is so "unknown" to the fans that they have to start over with them?

Or is it just the fact that they want to make them their own and not reference anything they've done. Which is stupid in my eyes, because it kills off the instant credibility they would have.

People talk about most WWE fans not watching TNA or anything else, so they wouldn't know the guys. But how many of those same fans in 1999 knew who Stevie Richards was? When he came in, they didn't treat him as some band new up and comer.

This I disagree with though. I think, with few exceptions, that revamping the wrestler's character - especially if they've already been on TV - keeps them fresh.

Nothing I hate worse than seeing the same character switch shows. It was fun 10-15 years ago, but now its just hacky.

Like with Daniel Bryan, he'd never been on tv before, so his character could be the same.

With Kaval, they're actually letting him say more than just "warrior" and giving him a little something to differentiate him from his time in TNA. I liked him in TNA, but like him more with a different personality.

[Ian Austin]

The WWF didn't sign Chris Jericho away from WCW to put him in dark matches.

It took Jericho six months to really adapt to the WWE style of wrestling. He was called sloppy, DX mocked his work, and even Vince had a word with him about it.

[Bo Rida]

I thought it was just to get used to the WWE style, to know where the cameras are, trial new movesets etc.

I think in years gone by they went straight on TV to stay ahead of the competition, that's not really necessary these days.

[Andrew is Good]

According to guys like Jim Cornette for example, the main reason a guy was sent down there from the indies is polishing. While WWE at times has issues with certain things, the indies have certain issues, which involve things like selling and psychology.

Consequences Creed for example is talented, but for a long time, he was in TNA and told, "video game car crash". Hell, even AJ Styles, the kingpin of TNA, isn't the same wrestler he was when he started. But then again, he was in angles with many different people that helped him over his career. I remember watching Tyler Black vs Bryan Danielson on ROH on HDnet, and after 10 minutes of Dragon beating on his leg, he's doing springboard moves.

But again, it's polishing. What happened with Colt Cabana was a travesty. And I think, despite issues with the indies, it's best to work and travel around the indies and learn different styles around the world, or get experience in as many places as possible. And it's sad, because very few people have that. I know Brent Wellington was trained in OVW, worked the indies, and is now in FCW. Richie Steamboat worked the Mid-Atlantic area. Huncio worked Mexico and the US indies.

I think maybe if someone is so entrenched in a certain style that they may need to learn WWE style or American style. I watch Alberto Del Rio on Smackdown, and he's a totally different wrestler then I saw in FCW, and I'm sure fans who saw him wrestle in Mexico would say he was different there too.

Some people, it probably isn't necessary, but some, it definitely helps. I think one issue seems that, they're just bringing in guys with no experience, and then giving them a shot because they look like a wrestler. And, I think on one hand if a guy is a great athlete, like, an amazing athlete 1st class, won so many things, etc, then those people might be easier to train in WWE developmental from scratch. But again, they don't have that outside experience and they might not be able to do what other wrestlers can do.

People knock OVW, but here's the thing. Every wrestler who went through there had to wrestle multiple one hour matches in front of the other wrestlers, and had to work like they were in front of the crowd. And they did this at 10 am. Lance Cade in an interview before he died brought up how guys like John Cena and Randy Orton could work an hour, but didn't think Drew McIntyre and Sheamus could do the same thing (though Drew was very briefly in OVW). Some developmental places are very strong, and FCW seems fine, but again, they're signing people, a lot of the time with no experience needed.

[Mayonnaise]

Sept 13, 2010 13:50:46 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

I thought it was just to get used to the WWE style, to know where the cameras are, trial new movesets etc.

I think in years gone by they went straight on TV to stay ahead of the competition, that's not really necessary these days.

This is a good chunk of it too as WWE rings are much larger than TNA and/or other indies. Your timing will easily get thrown off thanks to that. Also, WWE uses real rope instead of hose covered cable so a lot have to get used to that if they come off the ropes or use springboards a lot.

[Red Impact]

It'd be like working at one company in a particular industry, then jumping ship to work at another. Even if you know the basics of the job, you still need training on the particular system they used.

In FCW's case, I always believed they were there to learn how to work with the WWE ring, to the WWE cameras, and, in particularly, in the WWE method. It's not like the attitude era where they have to always be fighting with a competitor for ratings and don't always have all the time to let people get acquainted.

It also gives them time to figure out what to do with the people.

[rnrk supports BLM]

Sept 13, 2010 13:11:31 GMT -5 Tyfo said:

Your telling me that a Ron "The Truth" Killings, or Low Ki, or Lance Hoyt, or Chris Harris, is so "unknown" to the fans that they have to start over with them?

Yes.

[Seth Drakin of Monster Crap]

Sept 13, 2010 16:09:41 GMT -5 rnrk supports BLM said:

Sept 13, 2010 13:11:31 GMT -5 Tyfo said:

Your telling me that a Ron "The Truth" Killings, or Low Ki, or Lance Hoyt, or Chris Harris, is so "unknown" to the fans that they have to start over with them?

Yes.

To the mainstream fan.....absolutely. Remember TNA has a third of the audience WWE has so yeah......certain people may not know who some of these guys are.

WCW had at the time an equal percentage of fans if not more when they showed up immediately on TV so people knew immediately who they were.

Now there are certain guys (ie Christian) who people know enough to go pass the developmental shows and straight to the main roster.

[Cyno]

A lot of people stated some good points here, but also it's because there's no real WCW these days. To many casual fans, WWE IS wrestling. Sure people know about TNA, ROH, the indies, etc. But no one's really at war and competing with WWE like WCW did (well, TNA probably thinks it is, but they aren't).

Like say if tomorrow, AJ Styles jumped ship to WWE. This would be a MAJOR event in the wrestling world, and among hardcore fans and smarks. But I have a feeling if you told it to the casual fan, they'd go "AJ Who?" When Christian came back, it wasn't treated like a major star returning after jumping ship from the competition. He came back like he just mysteriously disappeared for a few years. And I guarantee if Hogan, Foley, Angle, etc. ever came back, it'd go the same way. If Sting ever made it, a huge deal would be made about one of the biggest stars in wrestling finally appearing in WWE, but they'd stop just short of mentioning TNA.

That's just how it is. Developmental helps a lot with getting people used to the WWE way of doing things. But you see a lot of veterans show up there simply because WWE can't really sell them on their name value when it's nonexistent to much of the audience.

[BoilerRoomBrawler]

Sept 13, 2010 13:50:46 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

I thought it was just to get used to the WWE style, to know where the cameras are, trial new movesets etc.

I think in years gone by they went straight on TV to stay ahead of the competition, that's not really necessary these days.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Like word for word. Scary.

[Urethra Franklin]

The one aspect of developmental that I don't think gets utilized enough (if at all) is availing it to injured wrestlers, just like you see in the MLB and NHL.

Suppose a guy like Edge goes down with a knee injury and is close to returning. Why not send him down there for 3-4 weeks and have him work out ring rust? Not only will he be perfectly rehabbed upon his return to TV, but the experience that some of the younger guys could get from working with a veteran like that would be immeasurable.

I'm sure some of the guys with bigger egos might snub their nose at the idea, but I think it's one worth exploring.

[Mister Yummy]

Wait, Wait, Wait; Consequences Creed was in the E? When did this happen, and where was I? I guess that's why Jay Lethal isn't tagging with him anymore.

Lance Hoyt, I heard about but never spotted. Did he just not make it on TV yet?

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Sept 14, 2010 0:41:53 GMT -5 Mister Yummy said:

Wait, Wait, Wait; Consequences Creed was in the E? When did this happen, and where was I? I guess that's why Jay Lethal isn't tagging with him anymore.

Lance Hoyt, I heard about but never spotted. Did he just not make it on TV yet?

Consequences Creed has only recently started in FCW. He's now known as Xavier Woods.

Lance Hoyt has been on WWE TV for the better part of 8 or 9 months as Vance Archer, getting a brief singles push in the dying days of ECW before teaming up with Curt Hawkins on SmackDown.

[Deleted]

It's like Colt Cabana said shortly after his release: It's good to send people there for a few months to learn the WWE style (which he did admit was different and more "entertainment based") but putting people like him there for two years is ridiculous.

[héad.casé]

Yep, just like everyone said, it's just for the guys to get used to wrestling WWE's way...slower paced matches, not just body language selling but to really work on selling with your facial expressions. Working WWE TV style matches are so different to working indy matches.

I remember 'Showstealer' Alex Shane giving our training group a seminar around two years ago, and he had us work TV style matches and wanted us to go four minutes exactly, and would allow us to go 15 seconds over, just to learn how to use that amount of time to our advantage and see if we could tell a story in four minutes...very interesting experience. Most interesting part was that we unknowingly planned over four minutes worth of stuff, and when it got to three and a half minutes we had to cut a bunch of stuff out and go straight for the finishing sequence.

On the indies you have no restrictions on match time, but if you're wrestling on TV, you have to go straight to the time you've been given with a few seconds leeway.

[SenorCrest]

Sept 13, 2010 17:15:11 GMT -5 Urethra Franklin said:

The one aspect of developmental that I don't think gets utilized enough (if at all) is availing it to injured wrestlers, just like you see in the MLB and NHL.

Suppose a guy like Edge goes down with a knee injury and is close to returning. Why not send him down there for 3-4 weeks and have him work out ring rust? Not only will he be perfectly rehabbed upon his return to TV, but the experience that some of the younger guys could get from working with a veteran like that would be immeasurable.

I'm sure some of the guys with bigger egos might snub their nose at the idea, but I think it's one worth exploring.

I like that idea. Too much.