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Post by s2k on Jun 19, 2006 13:30:53 GMT -5
^ Yes but we're not really sposed to consider that Shawn his holy in REAL life. Even though his Christianity has been used in storylines and promos on more than one occasion? Kayfabe is dead. Buried. Not breathing. The character and the individual are pretty much one in the same nowadays, because EVERYTHING in reality gets used in a storyline, except for Hunter's marriage. Flair gets road rage, let's use it. Eddie's dead, let's use it. Holly beats up innocent kids, let's use it. Shawn's a Christian, let's use it. Edge banged Hardy's girl, let's use it. A tabloid wrote something about Stacy and Jennifer Aniston (don't remember or care what it was about), let's use it. You get the drift. This is what irritates me about the WWE. If they stuck to 100% kayfabe, that would be fine. But they switch back and forth between their reality show concept and kayfabe that it's difficult to really justify a lot of what they do.
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sabu
Don Corleone
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Post by sabu on Jun 19, 2006 13:35:56 GMT -5
As an aside, how in the blue hell are they going to be 'degenerates' with Shawn's religious beliefs? I agree I wonder how Shawn will make the switch from religious guy to DX punk again. Do you think he will be able to play the role as well as he did before?
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Post by HoldingBackTalent aka bugz9987 on Jun 19, 2006 13:38:59 GMT -5
I never knew saying suck it was against the bible
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Post by Loki on Jun 19, 2006 14:20:34 GMT -5
^ Yes but we're not really sposed to consider that Shawn his holy in REAL life. Even though his Christianity has been used in storylines and promos on more than one occasion? Kayfabe is dead. Buried. Not breathing. The character and the individual are pretty much one in the same nowadays, because EVERYTHING in reality gets used in a storyline, except for Hunter's marriage. Flair gets road rage, let's use it. Eddie's dead, let's use it. Holly beats up innocent kids, let's use it. Shawn's a Christian, let's use it. Edge banged Hardy's girl, let's use it. A tabloid wrote something about Stacy and Jennifer Aniston (don't remember or care what it was about), let's use it. You get the drift. This is what irritates me about the WWE. If they stuck to 100% kayfabe, that would be fine. But they switch back and forth between their reality show concept and kayfabe that it's difficult to really justify a lot of what they do. I think WWE use "real life" traits/events only if these are needed to create/further a storyline. Like in HBK's case, his newfound faith put him against McMahon. Besides, I'm not even sure all that WWE claim to be "real life" is all that real. Just because it's reported on many websites, it doesn't mean it's true. I still think that's the new kayfabe. WWE can't pretend their performers are evil plumbers, or country singers, but they still can portray them as credible, yet somewhat fictional, characters. BTW, why should WE want Steph and HHH's marriage be AGAIN an active angle on the show???
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Post by tardis99 on Jun 19, 2006 14:25:20 GMT -5
But even if we don't take any notice of the real life realities, the CHARACTERS of HBK and HHH have evolved beyond DX. HHH especially. His DX character worked because frankly he was no more than a pimple on someone's ass before. Now he has been the most dominent superstar of the past five years. His character is now firmly established. "The Game" persona isn't one he can simply step in and out of. He cannot pull off the DX character with any conviction now, it'd be ridiculous.
So I hear some people say that this isn't the OLD DX it's a NEW DX with The Game teaming up with HBK. Well I wouldn't have a problem with HBK and HHH forming a tag-team. But why the DX thing? I suspect just to sell merchendise
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erik316wttn
Samurai Cop
Wrestlecrap's #1 SUNNY mark
Posts: 2,490
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Post by erik316wttn on Jun 19, 2006 14:25:21 GMT -5
Shawn could play a character. It's called "acting." He can ACT like a jerk without actually being one in real life.
All he has to do is pretend it's 1997 and Bret Hart is still around.
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Post by s2k on Jun 19, 2006 14:51:28 GMT -5
I think WWE use "real life" traits/events only if these are needed to create/further a storyline. Like in HBK's case, his newfound faith put him against McMahon. Besides, I'm not even sure all that WWE claim to be "real life" is all that real. Just because it's reported on many websites, it doesn't mean it's true. I still think that's the new kayfabe. WWE can't pretend their performers are evil plumbers, or country singers, but they still can portray them as credible, yet somewhat fictional, characters. But if something happens to a particular high profile wrestler, that particular event does factor into a storyline at some point or another, thereby connecting the actual person and the character. If Cena got arrested (for example), and came back to the WWE a few weeks later, that would show up in an angle. I can almost guarantee that. But Cena's on-screen character isn't like that. So why bring it up? Why mix reality with fiction only to blur the lines even further? I don't want to know that Tom Cruise is a psycho in real life when he's playing the role of Jerry McGuire. The two shouldn't even be connected. The WWE has to decide what type of entertainment they want, because what they are doing now makes stuff like a DX reunion seem incredibly unrealistic and hard to get behind. Trust me, the last thing I want is Stephanie and her growth hormone-filled body back on television. However, I don't see why faces can't use his marriage as a rebuttal in promos. For instance, HHH called Cena a bad wrestler and pretty much trashed Cena's entire gimmick on live television before WM. Cena's response? "You're great, but I'm going to beat you" (except Cena probably sounded like a cartoon character when saying it). How about Cena (or anybody) saying "at least I didn't sleep with the boss's daughter to get this title" or something along those lines? Everything else is fair game, is it not?. But NO ONE can even mention HHH's marriage to get a pop. Why? Because Trips is paranoid and knows that his career will always be linked to marrying the boss's daughter. It's petty, especially when the WWE doesn't give two drops of piss about kayfabe in every other instance.
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
Wade Wilson
loves him some cavity searches
Lord Xeen's going to kill you.
Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jun 19, 2006 14:52:57 GMT -5
ya'll DO know DX has only been back for one week, right?
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Post by Van Loki - Suck it, ECW on Jun 19, 2006 14:53:05 GMT -5
Man half of you guys are retards the other half are morons.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Jun 19, 2006 15:15:24 GMT -5
Mike Tyson could never get the crotch chops right and it always annoyed the crap out of me, eventually however everyone came round to the Mike Tyson school of crotch chopping and started doing the arm crossing.
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Post by slik81 on Jun 19, 2006 15:16:52 GMT -5
Yep. It won't last long. Enjoy it while you can but it's just another vehicle to excuse those two old guys hogging the spotlight during their next feud when they turn on each other. Nope, trips next feud is Orton, not HBK.
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Post by tardis99 on Jun 19, 2006 15:25:17 GMT -5
Yep. It won't last long. Enjoy it while you can but it's just another vehicle to excuse those two old guys hogging the spotlight during their next feud when they turn on each other. Nope, trips next feud is Orton, not HBK. I hope so.
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Post by Loki on Jun 19, 2006 17:50:46 GMT -5
Trust me, the last thing I want is Stephanie and her growth hormone-filled body back on television. However, I don't see why faces can't use his marriage as a rebuttal in promos. For instance, HHH called Cena a bad wrestler and pretty much trashed Cena's entire gimmick on live television before WM. Cena's response? "You're great, but I'm going to beat you" (except Cena probably sounded like a cartoon character when saying it). How about Cena (or anybody) saying "at least I didn't sleep with the boss's daughter to get this title" or something along those lines? Everything else is fair game, is it not?. But NO ONE can even mention HHH's marriage to get a pop. Why? Because Trips is paranoid and knows that his career will always be linked to marrying the boss's daughter. It's petty, especially when the WWE doesn't give two drops of piss about kayfabe in every other instance. No one mentions HHH's marriage because it's not "storyline reality". Triple and Nipple H are "officially" divorced, so it'd make little sense (even for WWE) using the marriage as plug for a storyline. Sure, we can speculate as much as we like about the reasons behind it not being used in storyline. Probably because it's not really needed. Triple H was getting enough heel heat as "the Game", so he didn't need extra points. Now he's turning face, so the whole Family Matters issue isn't fitting his current persona. Plus, Triple H was booked as the focused, coldhearted heel, not the corporate champion, so once again, mentioning the marriage wasn't "appropriate" to his gimmick. Probably the whole thing is similar to Hogan's receding hairline... one of those things that shouldn't be said, also because weren't really adding much to the show.
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mo
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
"Here are the young men, the weight on their shoulders..."
Posts: 16,661
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Post by mo on Jun 19, 2006 18:09:36 GMT -5
I read in a interview on a Christian website that Shawn wasn't "comfortable" doing the chops during the 2002 reunion/swerve or whatever and just went to his stomach, so take that for what you will
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Post by DrizzlinShytes on Jun 19, 2006 18:30:09 GMT -5
I never knew saying suck it was against the bible I love how as soon as someone gets any religion people automatically assume that they hold to the most insane puritannical position in that religion and wait for them to break it. I'm not religious at all but as far as I can tell HBK hasn't ever judged anyone or came out thumping his bible at people telling them how to live. So why does everyone fill in the blanks of what he believes and then bash him for not living up to their standards? Shawn played heel against Hogan and for all intents and purposes stole the show as the heel for a month so why can't he work as a part of DX?
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Post by Thomas Powers of Paine on Jun 19, 2006 18:32:01 GMT -5
He won't even say 'suck it'. He needs trips or the crowd to say it for him. I don't get why playing a character who crotch chops and says 'suck it' is against his beliefs. Sure, he won't do those things in real life, but wrestling isn't real life Shawn.... Yeah, as a fellow born-again Christian I agree he just needs to get over it and realize he's just an actor playing a part.
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Post by Hakumental on Jun 19, 2006 18:42:00 GMT -5
s2k raised an excellent point about the death of kayfabe and what it's done to the way many in the industry feel about their public perception. That said, I still think Shawn needs to realize that it's just a character, and even since he became a born-again Christian, his character has betrayed and derided Hulk Hogan, joined the nWo, publically mocked an entire nation...come on. There's the character, and there's the man. Like the Rock said (through his ghostwriter), "I would never tell the kid bagging my groceries, 'Hurry up, you load of monkey crap!'" It's a line in the sand that he shouldn't have to worry about crossing.
That said, eh, who cares? DX is back. Sweet.
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"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Jun 19, 2006 18:48:46 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels could very easily bring back the "Suck it" catch phrase and not have to feel guilty about it. My uncle is a minister and has one hellacious potty-mouth. I visited him in California one year and - with traffic in California being what it is - every other word out of his mouth was an F-Bomb. I think he even threw in a few "Gods" before his "damns," too, if you catch my drift. At any rate, if an ordained minister can have no problem using "obscene" language, a born-again Christian should have no problem with something slightly risque such as "suck it," especially if he's a performer and he's in character. Of course, everyone's beliefs are different, so if he doesn't feel comfortable doing it, who am I to judge? I could always give him my uncle's phone number if he has a guilty conscience about it.
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Post by DrizzlinShytes on Jun 19, 2006 18:48:55 GMT -5
s2k raised an excellent point about the death of kayfabe and what it's done to the way many in the industry feel about their public perception. That said, I still think Shawn needs to realize that it's just a character, and even since he became a born-again Christian, his character has betrayed and derided Hulk Hogan, joined the nWo, publically mocked an entire nation...come on. There's the character, and there's the man. Like the Rock said (through his ghostwriter), "I would never tell the kid bagging my groceries, 'Hurry up, you load of monkey crap!'" It's a line in the sand that he shouldn't have to worry about crossing. That said, eh, who cares? DX is back. Sweet. The thing is that he doesn't have to answer to anybody. Just because some wrestling fan thinks he isn't acting like a christian means nothing. He is number 1 playing a character as you say and number 2 living his life. It isn't anyone's job to tell others what it means to be a christian. I wasn't aware that the bible had told people not to say suck it as the other guy said.
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HRH The KING
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HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS
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Post by HRH The KING on Jun 19, 2006 18:51:10 GMT -5
The new DX isn't going to work.
A few marks will get excited but that's as far as it will go.
Then cue the Pedigree and HBK vs HHH, Chapter the 4937th.
After all, the Bible says:
"Thee Who Walks And Chops In The General Genitalia Region Shall Offend Thy Lord"
- Kings 2:32
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