JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Oct 8, 2010 15:53:03 GMT -5
Wrestlers in the Attitude era had FAR more heat on them--even the undercard guys.
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Post by Nomad Soul on Oct 9, 2010 5:58:35 GMT -5
The athleticism is far and wide better now among everyone than it was. Even back in the '90s, half the shows had fat hairy guys who couldn't really do anything but punch and dropkick. That's something I miss though. Everyone in wrestling today looks the bloody same. They are all young, all muscley, all with very little charisma. Think of how far removed someone like Ziegler is from the average American, now think of Dusty Rhodes. I saw a thread last week asking if Arn Anderson would work in today's game. One of the best wrestlers of all time, and we're asking if he'd "work" today? Why? Because he's a balding guy with a beard and who isn't built like a brick sh**house. Honestly, I cannot - and I've tried many times - I just can't watch the modern WWE product. It's hopeless. TNA is really bad too, but for different reasons.
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CaptainFall
Samurai Cop
'Fascinating is the word of the day'
Posts: 2,151
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Post by CaptainFall on Oct 9, 2010 6:16:50 GMT -5
Nostalgia always makes things better than they were. They'll be a bunch of guys in 2020 complaining how wrestling sucks and weren't things better in 2010. Wrong. In 1997 and 1998, me and my buddies got together every Monday night and watched RAW and Nitro. Never missed a show. We used to mark out and yell like crazy at the tv. When Stone Cold would come out to confront McMahon we would go apesh*t. When the nWo came ouy, same thing... esp. before it got watered down with the B Team guys. So last night I called one of my buddies from back then and told him to turn on TNA Impact, bc Flair and Foley were wrestling. He ended up watching the show. Afterwards I called him up, and said, "hey man, we need to have TNA Impact parties every Thursday.. all get together and watch wrestling like we used to".. he laughed and said, "yeah right... I aint watchin' this s*** ever again"... I would argue that people likes and dislikes change more in a twelve year period than wrestling.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,120
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Oct 9, 2010 7:19:56 GMT -5
Nostalgia always makes things better than they were. They'll be a bunch of guys in 2020 complaining how wrestling sucks and weren't things better in 2010. Wrong. In 1997 and 1998, me and my buddies got together every Monday night and watched RAW and Nitro. Never missed a show. We used to mark out and yell like crazy at the tv. When Stone Cold would come out to confront McMahon we would go apesh*t. When the nWo came ouy, same thing... esp. before it got watered down with the B Team guys. So last night I called one of my buddies from back then and told him to turn on TNA Impact, bc Flair and Foley were wrestling. He ended up watching the show. Afterwards I called him up, and said, "hey man, we need to have TNA Impact parties every Thursday.. all get together and watch wrestling like we used to".. he laughed and said, "yeah right... I aint watchin' this s*** ever again"... I'd say that's a great argument of it being right about nostalgia, when you were younger, it was awesome, and you look back on it fondly. Now you think it sucks, but there will be lots of people the age you were then watching every week thinking 'I can't miss this, it's awesome' every week, and they'll look back on it fondly 10 years from now, while thinking the current product sucks.
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defdave
AC Slater
Llllllllet's get ready to rumblllllllle!
Posts: 196
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Post by defdave on Oct 18, 2010 11:57:59 GMT -5
The athleticism is far and wide better now among everyone than it was. Even back in the '90s, half the shows had fat hairy guys who couldn't really do anything but punch and dropkick. That's something I miss though. Everyone in wrestling today looks the bloody same. They are all young, all muscley, all with very little charisma. Think of how far removed someone like Ziegler is from the average American, now think of Dusty Rhodes. I saw a thread last week asking if Arn Anderson would work in today's game. One of the best wrestlers of all time, and we're asking if he'd "work" today? Why? Because he's a balding guy with a beard and who isn't built like a brick sh**house. Honestly, I cannot - and I've tried many times - I just can't watch the modern WWE product. It's hopeless. TNA is really bad too, but for different reasons. I was about to say the same thing but you beat me to it. Bret Hart even said this in a shoot interview I just listened to. I'm paraphrasing here, but he said wrestling needs to bring back the big guys like the One Man Gang's and Bundy's. In my opinion (and NO this is not just nostalgia talking) there's absolutely NOTHING better about today's product. I dont' even like the production today. It started back with the first smaller video screens at the entrances in the early 90's, but they kept pushing it and pushing more and more, bigger and bigger, flashier and flashier and now it's just friggin' ridiculous and puts the spotlight on all this bullcrap rather than the wrestler and what they're doing. It sucks. Wrestling today is fundamentally different from the wrestling I grew up with in the 80's and 90's. Not only that though. Wrestling fans are different as well. Much different. In fact, I honestly don't agree with hardly anything today's "new" wrestling fan likes.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,315
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Post by The Ichi on Oct 18, 2010 13:42:18 GMT -5
Say what you will, but more guys ARE being given a chance these days. Daniel Bryan would have been lucky to be a jobber on Heat back in the Attitude Era.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 18, 2010 14:16:16 GMT -5
Say what you will, but more guys ARE being given a chance these days. Daniel Bryan would have been lucky to be a jobber on Heat back in the Attitude Era. I think he would have found a Ken Shamrock-esque niche.
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Post by Fantozzi on Oct 18, 2010 14:54:07 GMT -5
Nostalgia always makes things better than they were. They'll be a bunch of guys in 2020 complaining how wrestling sucks and weren't things better in 2010. it doesn't seem like this happened with 1995
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Post by brettappedout (BLM) on Oct 18, 2010 14:56:02 GMT -5
Alot as other have said, but I'll the one of the biggest I see watching wrestling then and now is crisp looking wrestling. Watching RAW on Classics you see horrible selling, awkward motions, etc.. today well there's botches it just looks and flows ALOT better in my opinion.
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defdave
AC Slater
Llllllllet's get ready to rumblllllllle!
Posts: 196
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Post by defdave on Oct 18, 2010 15:49:30 GMT -5
What goes on in the ring today definitely has a more elegant flow, but that's one of the things I can't stand about it. It looks faker now than it ever has before. Back in the day, wrestlers wouldn't always plan the match spot for spot like choreography.
Instead, they'd go out there and wing it and just let things flow naturally. Ric Flair vs. Steamboat for example. That's how it was done. Now it's too mechanical and planned out....just like the promos.
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Post by shadowangel on Oct 18, 2010 18:26:32 GMT -5
What goes on in the ring today definitely has a more elegant flow, but that's one of the things I can't stand about it. It looks faker now than it ever has before. Back in the day, wrestlers wouldn't always plan the match spot for spot like choreography. Wrestling from back then has a more realistic feel, even for me who hasn't grown up with 80's wrestling, i think that it looks better and more exiciting. Today most matches look like they're done by the numbers, without any improvisation. And it can lead to awkward moments, like Survivor Series 2002 when Rico yelled at Jeff because he missed his cue. I think back in the old days wrestler would have just improvised something, instead of shouting loudly and make it look dumb.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 18, 2010 22:06:29 GMT -5
I think a huge problem with wrestling today is that it doesn't feel like it's trying to be particularly fun anymore, yet it's also lost a certain level of seriousness that used to make the shows feel more interesting.
It tries to be funny, don't get me wrong, though that often ends with horrific results.
Let me make my first statement clear, though: the fun of gimmicks, over the top characters, vibrant personalities, loudmouth managers, funny commentators (with a good heel/face dynamic), attention-grabbing costumes, etc., is basically gone. The more I watch my old tapes from 1987-1992, the more I miss the seeming willingness for some aspects of wrestling to not take itself too seriously. I know some would call that "kiddie", but I don't honestly mean it that way.
Nowadays, attempts at humor or "wackiness" often come off as forced and full of internet in-jokes, and don't really last too long. I suppose that's why I enjoyed Colt Cabana a lot when I was watching ROH, the guy actually seemed to have fun with what he was doing.
However, when I speak of a "seriousness" that's missing, I simply mean that in the presentation. Again, watching my old tapes, I remembered how you used to see Gene Okerlund, in a suit, "reporting from the locker room", as if he was getting a response from a pitcher who was leaving a ball game. Sean Mooney would be in the "event center" reporting on storylines with real earnestness. Jack Tunney would issue very official sounding announcements and rulings from his presidential office. Matches were booked in advance, and if the card was changed for storyline reasons, it usually came as a shock.
Today, the soap opera or variety show presentation styles are in vogue, and frankly they're a complete waste of time. It absolutely demolishes the suspension of disbelief to do the "invisible camera" technique during promos (though it's less promos today and more script dialog), to set up instant matches just because two guys talk backstage and then say "let's fight!", and to do "skits" backstage to set things up or waste time instead of setting matches and angles up with promos and action.
So it's a double whammy: the fun is out of show, but even the more professional looking aspects of it that help you suspend your disbelief are gone, too.
And I haven't even referenced old school NWA, which prided itself on out-and-out realistic presentation.
So yeah, while athleticism is better today and while video is clearer with HD, I think the entire heart of wrestling was destroyed years ago.
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skulldouggory
Unicron
Needs More Shirtless Barry Windham
Posts: 2,535
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Post by skulldouggory on Oct 19, 2010 11:37:02 GMT -5
Womens wrestling for sure. Wether its WWE's Bimbos who are less sexualised and more impowered or TNAs Knockouts who can put on a decent match.
I also like the lack of South Park references.
I was watching some 1998 Austin matches, and i was the biggest Austin fan back then but now i find him back then to be annoying. i feel sorry for Vince (the character) , kinda how i feel sorry for Squidward from spongebob squarepants.
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Post by Super Nintenjoe KBD on Oct 19, 2010 11:55:59 GMT -5
Anyone else not a fan of today's better production? I hate the overproduced feel of modern WWE and TNA.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Oct 19, 2010 16:01:05 GMT -5
Anyone else not a fan of today's better production? I hate the overproduced feel of modern WWE and TNA. I'm with you. I don't like it at all, and I've been liking it less and less for years now.
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Post by shadowangel on Oct 19, 2010 16:09:44 GMT -5
Womens wrestling for sure. Wether its WWE's Bimbos who are less sexualised and more impowered or TNAs Knockouts who can put on a decent match. That not better then back then WWF had the Jumping Bomb Angels from Japan in 1988 and they were f***ing awesome. In the 90's with Alundra Blayze they could've made it big again. Bull Nakano was one opponent, as far as i know Alundra named other possible wormen from japan, instead we got Ronda Singh Women Wrestling in Japan was awesome even in the old days. The first time i saw an wwf even with the jumping bomb angels it was like " damn, who are they? "
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Post by Nomad Soul on Oct 19, 2010 17:17:19 GMT -5
Anyone else not a fan of today's better production? I hate the overproduced feel of modern WWE and TNA. I'm with you. I don't like it at all, and I've been liking it less and less for years now. I'm 100% with you too. For me wrestling just stops some time around 2003 or so. I think the brand split is probably the cut off point. I love wrestling, but there's 0% of what I love about it is in today's wrestling.
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Post by foreveryoung on Oct 19, 2010 20:22:28 GMT -5
There isn't much better these days compared to the old days.. But alot of it isn't the wrestlers' fault. EVERYTHING in wrestling then can be done really has been done.. There really isn't much in terms of breaking new ground. We have been all around the cycle. From a program aimed at kids to adults to kids again. Much harder to get heat these days. EVERYONE knows EVERYTHING about the business whereas even though most people thought wrestling was setup and predetermined, there was still an element of mystery to it. Every angle has been done. Nexus? Watered down version of the NWO except with guys far less seasoned and talented? Cena? A less over version of Hulk Hogan. Randy Orton? A watered down less over version of Austin. Today's WWE product? A less captivating version of 80s wrestling.
Today belts mean nothing. The undercard means nothing whereas in the 80s and 90s everyone from top to bottom was in a fued that meant something.
Bobby Heenan said it best.. Wrestling drawing the big crowds and captivating the country is over. Its the equivalent of a magician showing you his tricks he said.. After you know all the magician's tricks would u want to see that same magician again? No
Essentially, everything that the WWE are doing today, has been done before except done alot better before
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Post by Nomad Soul on Oct 19, 2010 20:54:31 GMT -5
There isn't much better these days compared to the old days.. But alot of it isn't the wrestlers' fault. EVERYTHING in wrestling then can be done really has been done.. There really isn't much in terms of breaking new ground. We have been all around the cycle. From a program aimed at kids to adults to kids again. Much harder to get heat these days. EVERYONE knows EVERYTHING about the business whereas even though most people thought wrestling was setup and predetermined, there was still an element of mystery to it. Every angle has been done. Nexus? Watered down version of the NWO except with guys far less seasoned and talented? Cena? A less over version of Hulk Hogan. Randy Orton? A watered down less over version of Austin. Today's WWE product? A less captivating version of 80s wrestling. Today belts mean nothing. The undercard means nothing whereas in the 80s and 90s everyone from top to bottom was in a fued that meant something. Bobby Heenan said it best.. Wrestling drawing the big crowds and captivating the country is over. Its the equivalent of a magician showing you his tricks he said.. After you know all the magician's tricks would u want to see that same magician again? No Essentially, everything that the WWE are doing today, has been done before except done alot better before There are plenty of ways it could get better though. Stop doing so many hours of TV a week. Stop doing monthly PPVs. Bring back jobbers. Keep top talent away from each other apart from a couple of times a year at Wrestlemania or Summerslam. Don't be afraid to slow burn feuds. Don't have a character pull a heel or face turn for at least 2 or 3 years. Make tag team wrestling mean something. Stop scripting things so tightly. Let workers be "themselves". Don't hotshot titles. All of these things would HELP. But aside from that a fundamental re-think is needed. Everyone today looks the same and works the same - you need fat guys, chubby guys, average guys, a whole spectrum like we had in the 80s - to keep things interesting. Everyone now seems very "generic". It's all far too formulaised - the heart and soul has gone. But that does not mean you can't get it back. A lot of the top brains ever in wrestling are still around - a few of them, Dillon, JR, Arn Anderson, Pat Patterson, VINCE are even on the WWE's books - so the people are there to reverse the damage that has been done. Sad truth is, a guy like Ric Flair looking exactly like Ric Flair would not make it in today's game - same for AA, same for DiBiase, same for Foley, same for Dusty Rhodes, same for a lot of guys - why? They don't have that hyper-generic muscle look everyone has now. If that is the case, you KNOW there is a problem. So why not just stop insisting on that look? Automatically you make the product a lot more varied. And then maybe, just maybe, you might find the next Flair or Dusty Rhodes.
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percymania
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Percymania will live forever! Oh yeah!
Posts: 17,296
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Post by percymania on Oct 19, 2010 21:36:58 GMT -5
What I love about today's wrestling compared to the 90's is the amount of access fans have. WWE is a staple of cable television these days, producing at least 4 hours of original programming each week. When I was a kid, it seemed like we got one hour a week, and it came on at a weird hour on a weird channel. They do WAY more shows now, and it's a lot easier for fans all over the country to attend a live show. The production value of the shows have increased tremendously. The pyro, the music... there's really a lot to love.
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