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Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 18, 2010 20:59:00 GMT -5
Not the kind of semi-kayfabe free stuff we've seen for years. I mean other than the actual programing and live events it does not exit.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Oct 18, 2010 21:14:28 GMT -5
I don't think so man. Part of the drama is getting the audience to suspend disbelief for a moment or few long enough to believe that John Cena really might lose to Wade Barret or that despite the 20 on 1 beatdown he got he is tough enough to come back and win. It requires a leap of faith you have to help with the entertainment side of wrestling. Shoot wrestling or just plain exibitions of holds and reversals would work for internet guys(a few of us anyway) but as far as spenidng money on producing a show based on this, I belive it would be a waste
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Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 18, 2010 21:23:03 GMT -5
But other than the televised programs or live shows could a promotion exist with out it? So yeah we should suspend disbelief will watching matches of listening to promos. But I"m talking about getting rid of the carny mentality, admitting in (outside) interviews that it's a work and going as far as having special edition commentary tracks were wrestling speak matches out of character. Because yeah I agree with you that in terms of the promotion internal logic and stories you should suspend belief. I don't see why it has to exist outside of their.
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Oct 19, 2010 3:31:17 GMT -5
Isn't that basically what WWE has been doing for years? Same with Ring of Honor.
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Post by TripleMerc on Oct 19, 2010 6:46:29 GMT -5
It'd basically be ice dancing or something with judges judging the people on their technical merit and other applicable, measurable scores.
So, yeah, I think it could WORK, but I don't think it would be popular at all.
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Post by johnnyk9 on Oct 19, 2010 7:15:34 GMT -5
I don't like the idea but that is basically what wrestling has become as a whole and it seems to work
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Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 19, 2010 9:34:40 GMT -5
Isn't that basically what WWE has been doing for years? Same with Ring of Honor. I suppose. I fairness I haven't watched nearly as much WWE as I used to. Still I think what I'm talking about is a little different. Like if Heel A and Face A appared together on Leno to promote a show and they weren't acting like they hated each other if indeed they were friends that would not be frowed apon. I think fans are smart enough to know the difference. |
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,435 
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Post by FinalGwen on Oct 19, 2010 9:39:10 GMT -5
The thread title just makes me imagine a crowd chant after a great spot.
"THIS-IS-SCRIPTED!" *clap-clap-clap-clap-clap*
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 19, 2010 9:50:27 GMT -5
Is this going to turn into the annual "should pro wrestling be an Olympic sport" nonsense?
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Post by rapidfire187 on Oct 19, 2010 10:04:30 GMT -5
Yea this is basically what wrestling is nowadays. Nobody tries to kayfabe the fans anymore, and the ones that do are usually just halfassing it over twitter.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Oct 19, 2010 11:21:54 GMT -5
It'd basically be ice dancing or something with judges judging the people on their technical merit and other applicable, measurable scores. So, yeah, I think it could WORK, but I don't think it would be popular at all. Which is how I keep saying wrestling in the Olympics work. You could have like 14 gold medalist every four years in wrestling. (2 style classes based kinda around weight plus tag team styles) |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 19, 2010 13:38:20 GMT -5
Is this going to turn into the annual "should pro wrestling be an Olympic sport" nonsense? No. Not at all. |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 19, 2010 13:40:22 GMT -5
The thread title just makes me imagine a crowd chant after a great spot. "THIS-IS-SCRIPTED!" *clap-clap-clap-clap-clap* Really? Why? I've gone to plays where dramatic things happen, fights, deaths, etc. and no one ever says "Hey he didn't really shoot that guy, I saw them have a drink after the show last night." So why would wresting be any different? |
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Post by Kash Flagg on Oct 19, 2010 14:53:25 GMT -5
So you're talking it being treated like a movie.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 19, 2010 16:27:28 GMT -5
Pretty much. Because really do fans need to believe that what happens in angles is "real" other than when it happening. I can go back and watch stuff that I've read about and "know" as well as fans can know some of the backstage stuff, like Hart-Austin at WM 13, and I still completely mark out. If the product stands up I don't see why that wouldn't work
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Oct 19, 2010 17:16:10 GMT -5
No. Kayfabe tends to draw a lot better. It's easier to suspend disbelief when the stars play along with you.
That's why I think wrestling needs to build a new kayfabe wall, by incorporating elements from other sports, like MMA, but still retaining a unique identity. I'm thinking something like an American UWFi.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 19, 2010 17:22:44 GMT -5
Why? Because actors don't play along with you outside of their shows/movies/plays. Even at geeky things like sci-fi or horror convention you go to see the actor not the character. So yes they should play along while they are engaged in the programing (matches,angles,promos) but why should they outside of those things?
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Oct 19, 2010 17:31:01 GMT -5
Why? Because actors don't play along with you outside of their shows/movies/plays. Even at geeky things like sci-fi or horror convention you go to see the actor not the character. So yes they should play along while they are engaged in the programing (matches,angles,promos) but why should they outside of those things? No, we're talking about wrestling here. And it's a fact that wrestling drew better when kayfabe existed--when people believed. I don't really accept the actor comparison, as wrestling used to be presented as real and has always used aspects of real-life of the performers (names, attitudes, ect). I think it's really a question of what makes more money and results in more fans. I can only see the total abandonment of kayfabe hurting wrestling. |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 19, 2010 17:43:16 GMT -5
But people know it isn't real. That cat is never, ever going back in the bag. So why not move on?
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TuneinTokyo
Hank Scorpio
The Mountain from Stone Mountain
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Post by TuneinTokyo on Oct 19, 2010 19:15:30 GMT -5
But people know it isn't real. That cat is never, ever going back in the bag. So why not move on? Good point. I would rather watch 100% free than semi. I wouldn't mind going back to 100% kayfabe. Just start over with a new company, new product, and sell it as real pro wrestling. You would have to slow it down and bring back the hour long exhibitions of holds and shows of strength. Make real like MMA. Get back to actually enforcing rules of a match. Really though too much in society has changed since the good old days of kayfabe so a complete re-tooling of the industry would have to the energy to take it "over the top" again. |
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