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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 2:27:32 GMT -5
I have to ask.......7 deadly sins?
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jan 24, 2011 3:15:08 GMT -5
I have to ask.......7 deadly sins? A VERY complex aborted storyline Raven proposed(and actually got a little ways in on) that started out with promise, then fizzled to nothing when Raven got canned.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 24, 2011 3:31:52 GMT -5
Yes, definitely. But Vince always saw Raven as "Johnny Polo", and Pat Patterson didn't "get" his character or the way he dressed. I believe it was more Vince just hated Raven because he was Shane's pot connection during his first run.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Jan 24, 2011 4:06:58 GMT -5
Straight-edge stuff aside, could Raven (back in his prime) been out in the roles Punk has been? A cerebral wrestler that manipulates his gang of followers to do his bidding with 'cultish' overtures? Sure they wrestle in different styles but I think it would have worked, plus Raven vs Austin, Foley etc would have ruled. CM punk isn't half the wrestler,mentally or physically that Raven is.
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Post by Oogie Boogie on Jan 24, 2011 5:13:50 GMT -5
Straight-edge stuff aside, could Raven (back in his prime) been out in the roles Punk has been? A cerebral wrestler that manipulates his gang of followers to do his bidding with 'cultish' overtures? Sure they wrestle in different styles but I think it would have worked, plus Raven vs Austin, Foley etc would have ruled. CM punk isn't half the wrestler,mentally or physically that Raven is. That's a funny comment right there. But anyway I love this promo that Punk did during his feud with Raven.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Jan 24, 2011 9:53:07 GMT -5
CM punk isn't half the wrestler,mentally or physically that Raven is. That's a funny comment right there. But anyway I love this promo that Punk did during his feud with Raven. His promos on Raven are what made me sit up and take notice. There was one with a few people with him, I think SDR was there, although it may have been another female wrestler, in quite a dark hallway where he spoke about Raven being a drunk like his father, which I remember turned a member of this forum (I forget who, not sure he visits any more) from a self-admitted Punk hater into a fan.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 24, 2011 11:56:22 GMT -5
It would have been interesting to see where Matt Hardy's career would have gone if the 7 deadly sins storyline was carried out. The final match ass kicking at the hands of Hardy that Raven was pitching would have been something else. Ironically, Matt's just about bitchy enough these days that he might as well be shouting "WHAT ABOUT ME? WHAT ABOUT MATT HARDY?"
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Dave at the Movies
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Jan 24, 2011 12:02:57 GMT -5
I think Heyman got the ball rolling on Punk and Punk just knocked it out of the park and impressed everyone. I have to ask.......7 deadly sins? A VERY complex aborted storyline Raven proposed(and actually got a little ways in on) that started out with promise, then fizzled to nothing when Raven got canned. Raven has said that he personally pitched it to Vince and Vince offered him a writers job based off that one storyline. I think the problem was that Vince didn't watch the weekend shows. That has been said by Raven and also by Kendrick and London.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 24, 2011 13:24:09 GMT -5
I have to ask.......7 deadly sins? Let me see if I can explain it adequately... Raven was going to start attacking some lower and midcard guys who fit a couple of the 7 Deadly Sins. One would be a fat guy (probably Dreamer, 'cause he's fat) to represent Gluttony, some grimy guy for Sloth, etc. The third guy (again, probably Dreamer) would do a better job fighting back than the first 2 and the angle would transfer to Raw. Raven would lose the feud to the third guy and disappear for a couple of weeks, seemingly ending the storyline. Raven would then do a promo where he has some shocking footage to reveal. The footage would be some home video footage of Matt Hardy walking with some attractive young girl through a hotel where the two of them enter a room together. The next thing shown would be the inside of the hotel room, where it is in shambles (suggesting that the two really went at it). The camera would pan the room until it settled on the foot of the bed, where Lita is sitting, crying, and watching Raven's footage of Matt and this girl entering the hotel room. Raven then whispers soothing words to Lita about how Matt represents lust and that he understands the pain that she is experiencing and promises to help her get through her pain by punishing Matt. At that point the footage ends and Matt runs out into the arena and Raven takes off like a bolt the moment he sees Matt coming. Lita would then join Raven as they work together to punish other wrestlers guilty of sin, all the while dodging Matt and running from him on first sight. Matt would get shunned by guys in the back until it becomes known that he was only with the girl because he and Lita were on a break....because Lita cheated on him. It would also turn out that not only was the footage much older than it appeared, but Matt did not even go through with it when he got in the room with the girl because he figured out that the girl had a boyfriend and he did not want to be "that guy". It would eventually be learned that he forgave Lita and that the two of them had rebuilt their life together and were happy....until Raven showed her the footage and suggested that Matt had recently cheated on her. At this point Raven's mission through the 7 Deadly Sins would be mostly complete. Raven would finally stop running from Matt and agree to face him in a street fight at the next PPV. Immediately before the PPV Raven would renounce Lita, telling her that in fact SHE was the one being punished for Lust and that Matt, as pissed off at Raven as he is, actually represents Wrath. Finally, the PPV match happens. As it is a street fight, Matt can use whatever he wants to destroy Raven and does so. Brutally. Maliciously. Ruthlessly. In short, Raven takes an ass-beating for the ages. The match only ends because the ref (who I think Raven earlier would have accused of taking bribes, teasing that he was the one that would be punished for Greed, though someone else ultimately was) finally takes pity on Raven and calls the match and brings out the EMTs as he and the other officials have to pry Matt away from Raven's beaten and bloodied body. Afterward, in an interview from a hospital bed, Raven is sore but elated. He is ecstatic because his plan worked to perfection. As it turned out, the last person to be punished was the first sinner: Raven himself. Raven had seen Matt and his life and was extremely jealous. He decided that he had to be punished for his jealousy in order to start anew and he chose Matt as the instrument that would punish him. He would then reveal that he had been whispering in Lita's ear for a long time, chipping away at her faith in her relationship with Matt, and finally was the one that steered the guy that she cheated on Matt with in her direction knowing that she was weak and vulnerable at that very moment. He engineered the destruction of Matt's personal life so that Matt would be willing to punish him accordingly. Now that he has been purged of his sin, he can begin his life and be the success that he was meant to be. I think that Raven at that point says that Vince was impressed, but ultimately did not follow through because he did not know where the angle was supposed to go from the point after the end. Raven tried to explain that it could go wherever Vince wanted it to go. Raven would have been made. Matt would have been made. Lita would have become an interesting character where she could either become a man eating valet or they could slowly build up her reconciliation with Matt. In the end, it was not followed through for lack of vision.
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Post by derrtaysouth95 on Jan 24, 2011 18:02:23 GMT -5
That's an insanely deep storyline. Total shame it never happened.
As for the Shane/Raven rumors? Anything more than Shane scored pot from him?
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@TenaciousBe
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Post by @TenaciousBe on Jan 24, 2011 20:43:54 GMT -5
Well, that was sort of Raven's deal with Seratonin in TNA, though it wasn't nearly as deep or engaging as Punk's current deal. I kind of like how the SES now feels like a trial run for what he's doing, or going to be doing (hopefully, if WWE doesn't drop the ball on him), with Nexus.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 24, 2011 23:45:32 GMT -5
Raven's influence is all over the current wrestling product. Punk's current WWE work is a straight edge version of something like the Flock or Seratonin, mind control brainwashing style heel stuff with weird promos and sadistic violence against his own men.
Raven almost has to be considered an influence on the current Hardys stuff in TNA as well. Jeff cuts bizarre Raven style promos and Matt is practically dressing and acting like Raven.
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Post by cool guy on Jan 25, 2011 0:01:45 GMT -5
I have to ask.......7 deadly sins? Let me see if I can explain it adequately... Raven was going to start attacking some lower and midcard guys who fit a couple of the 7 Deadly Sins. One would be a fat guy (probably Dreamer, 'cause he's fat) to represent Gluttony, some grimy guy for Sloth, etc. The third guy (again, probably Dreamer) would do a better job fighting back than the first 2 and the angle would transfer to Raw. Raven would lose the feud to the third guy and disappear for a couple of weeks, seemingly ending the storyline. Raven would then do a promo where he has some shocking footage to reveal. The footage would be some home video footage of Matt Hardy walking with some attractive young girl through a hotel where the two of them enter a room together. The next thing shown would be the inside of the hotel room, where it is in shambles (suggesting that the two really went at it). The camera would pan the room until it settled on the foot of the bed, where Lita is sitting, crying, and watching Raven's footage of Matt and this girl entering the hotel room. Raven then whispers soothing words to Lita about how Matt represents lust and that he understands the pain that she is experiencing and promises to help her get through her pain by punishing Matt. At that point the footage ends and Matt runs out into the arena and Raven takes off like a bolt the moment he sees Matt coming. Lita would then join Raven as they work together to punish other wrestlers guilty of sin, all the while dodging Matt and running from him on first sight. Matt would get shunned by guys in the back until it becomes known that he was only with the girl because he and Lita were on a break....because Lita cheated on him. It would also turn out that not only was the footage much older than it appeared, but Matt did not even go through with it when he got in the room with the girl because he figured out that the girl had a boyfriend and he did not want to be "that guy". It would eventually be learned that he forgave Lita and that the two of them had rebuilt their life together and were happy....until Raven showed her the footage and suggested that Matt had recently cheated on her. At this point Raven's mission through the 7 Deadly Sins would be mostly complete. Raven would finally stop running from Matt and agree to face him in a street fight at the next PPV. Immediately before the PPV Raven would renounce Lita, telling her that in fact SHE was the one being punished for Lust and that Matt, as pissed off at Raven as he is, actually represents Wrath. Finally, the PPV match happens. As it is a street fight, Matt can use whatever he wants to destroy Raven and does so. Brutally. Maliciously. Ruthlessly. In short, Raven takes an ass-beating for the ages. The match only ends because the ref (who I think Raven earlier would have accused of taking bribes, teasing that he was the one that would be punished for Greed, though someone else ultimately was) finally takes pity on Raven and calls the match and brings out the EMTs as he and the other officials have to pry Matt away from Raven's beaten and bloodied body. Afterward, in an interview from a hospital bed, Raven is sore but elated. He is ecstatic because his plan worked to perfection. As it turned out, the last person to be punished was the first sinner: Raven himself. Raven had seen Matt and his life and was extremely jealous. He decided that he had to be punished for his jealousy in order to start anew and he chose Matt as the instrument that would punish him. He would then reveal that he had been whispering in Lita's ear for a long time, chipping away at her faith in her relationship with Matt, and finally was the one that steered the guy that she cheated on Matt with in her direction knowing that she was weak and vulnerable at that very moment. He engineered the destruction of Matt's personal life so that Matt would be willing to punish him accordingly. Now that he has been purged of his sin, he can begin his life and be the success that he was meant to be. I think that Raven at that point says that Vince was impressed, but ultimately did not follow through because he did not know where the angle was supposed to go from the point after the end. Raven tried to explain that it could go wherever Vince wanted it to go. Raven would have been made. Matt would have been made. Lita would have become an interesting character where she could either become a man eating valet or they could slowly build up her reconciliation with Matt. In the end, it was not followed through for lack of vision. That sounds familiar for some reason...
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 25, 2011 0:34:06 GMT -5
Let me see if I can explain it adequately... Raven was going to start attacking some lower and midcard guys who fit a couple of the 7 Deadly Sins. One would be a fat guy (probably Dreamer, 'cause he's fat) to represent Gluttony, some grimy guy for Sloth, etc. The third guy (again, probably Dreamer) would do a better job fighting back than the first 2 and the angle would transfer to Raw. Raven would lose the feud to the third guy and disappear for a couple of weeks, seemingly ending the storyline. Raven would then do a promo where he has some shocking footage to reveal. The footage would be some home video footage of Matt Hardy walking with some attractive young girl through a hotel where the two of them enter a room together. The next thing shown would be the inside of the hotel room, where it is in shambles (suggesting that the two really went at it). The camera would pan the room until it settled on the foot of the bed, where Lita is sitting, crying, and watching Raven's footage of Matt and this girl entering the hotel room. Raven then whispers soothing words to Lita about how Matt represents lust and that he understands the pain that she is experiencing and promises to help her get through her pain by punishing Matt. At that point the footage ends and Matt runs out into the arena and Raven takes off like a bolt the moment he sees Matt coming. Lita would then join Raven as they work together to punish other wrestlers guilty of sin, all the while dodging Matt and running from him on first sight. Matt would get shunned by guys in the back until it becomes known that he was only with the girl because he and Lita were on a break....because Lita cheated on him. It would also turn out that not only was the footage much older than it appeared, but Matt did not even go through with it when he got in the room with the girl because he figured out that the girl had a boyfriend and he did not want to be "that guy". It would eventually be learned that he forgave Lita and that the two of them had rebuilt their life together and were happy....until Raven showed her the footage and suggested that Matt had recently cheated on her. At this point Raven's mission through the 7 Deadly Sins would be mostly complete. Raven would finally stop running from Matt and agree to face him in a street fight at the next PPV. Immediately before the PPV Raven would renounce Lita, telling her that in fact SHE was the one being punished for Lust and that Matt, as pissed off at Raven as he is, actually represents Wrath. Finally, the PPV match happens. As it is a street fight, Matt can use whatever he wants to destroy Raven and does so. Brutally. Maliciously. Ruthlessly. In short, Raven takes an ass-beating for the ages. The match only ends because the ref (who I think Raven earlier would have accused of taking bribes, teasing that he was the one that would be punished for Greed, though someone else ultimately was) finally takes pity on Raven and calls the match and brings out the EMTs as he and the other officials have to pry Matt away from Raven's beaten and bloodied body. Afterward, in an interview from a hospital bed, Raven is sore but elated. He is ecstatic because his plan worked to perfection. As it turned out, the last person to be punished was the first sinner: Raven himself. Raven had seen Matt and his life and was extremely jealous. He decided that he had to be punished for his jealousy in order to start anew and he chose Matt as the instrument that would punish him. He would then reveal that he had been whispering in Lita's ear for a long time, chipping away at her faith in her relationship with Matt, and finally was the one that steered the guy that she cheated on Matt with in her direction knowing that she was weak and vulnerable at that very moment. He engineered the destruction of Matt's personal life so that Matt would be willing to punish him accordingly. Now that he has been purged of his sin, he can begin his life and be the success that he was meant to be. I think that Raven at that point says that Vince was impressed, but ultimately did not follow through because he did not know where the angle was supposed to go from the point after the end. Raven tried to explain that it could go wherever Vince wanted it to go. Raven would have been made. Matt would have been made. Lita would have become an interesting character where she could either become a man eating valet or they could slowly build up her reconciliation with Matt. In the end, it was not followed through for lack of vision. That sounds familiar for some reason... Well, of course it sounds familiar. That does not change the fact that the fans might have gotten interested in it. Hell, I bet people would have made predictions on who was the next victim based on their character. It does not change the fact that Raven would have been topical at the time. Sure, I am sure that people might predict the ending, though 99% of all angles have relatively easy to predict endings. It is how interesting the journey happened to be usually.
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Post by cool guy on Jan 25, 2011 1:08:48 GMT -5
Oh, not denying any of that. I just had to point it out, that's all.
By the way, does anyone have a link to that promo Punk did on Raven that was mentioned earlier? Something about calling Raven a drunk like his father while standing in a dark hallway?
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Lardlad
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Post by Lardlad on Jan 27, 2011 7:27:52 GMT -5
I think WWE just never really gets certain wrestlers, Raven was one of those guys. Was it everyone who didn't get Raven, or was it just certain guys? Like I could see Vince and Gerry Briscoe not "getting" Raven's character, but on the other hand, I could see Pat Patterson being behind it....
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Snowman
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Post by Snowman on Jan 27, 2011 8:19:56 GMT -5
I think WWE just never really gets certain wrestlers, Raven was one of those guys. Was it everyone who didn't get Raven, or was it just certain guys? Like I could see Vince and Gerry Briscoe not "getting" Raven's character, but on the other hand, I could see Pat Patterson being behind it.... I can see Pat Patterson being behind lots of guys.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Jan 27, 2011 8:52:37 GMT -5
Oh, not denying any of that. I just had to point it out, that's all. By the way, does anyone have a link to that promo Punk did on Raven that was mentioned earlier? Something about calling Raven a drunk like his father while standing in a dark hallway? My mistake, it was the Wrestlerave one posted earlier. I didn't watch the video when it was posted and thought it was a different one. It is a goosebumps moment.
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Post by jadison on Jan 27, 2011 10:20:13 GMT -5
Yes, definitely. But Vince always saw Raven as "Johnny Polo", and Pat Patterson didn't "get" his character or the way he dressed. This is exactly why out-of-touch old guys shouldn't be getting final say on entertainment for younger people. Damn good point. Damn good.
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Lardlad
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Post by Lardlad on Jan 27, 2011 10:25:07 GMT -5
This is exactly why out-of-touch old guys shouldn't be getting final say on entertainment for younger people. Damn good point. Damn good. So how many years until Triple H becomes an out-of-touch old guy who shouldn't be getting final say? I ask this as a serious question because, correct me if I'm wrong, Triple H will be 42 years old this year ... so at what age does someone become too old?
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