A Thought on Face Orton

[Rolent Tex]

I know it's been done and over with for a couple months already, but there was something about the ending of the Survivor Series main event that bothered me but I couldn't put my finger on it. It wasn't the ending...that surprised me actually. It wasn't the fact that Cena completely no sold his firing. That was a whole other story. Then it hit me. PG face Randy Orton is just not working for me...and I finally realized why.

Randy had a great heel run with Evolution (before his first lame forced face turn) and then with Legacy (before the entire angle just fizzled out and was barely mentioned again after Mania.) Randy was a heel with an edge...a crazed psycho that hears voices in his head as Michael Cole reminds us on a weekly basis. Then when the time came to turn Cody and Ted face, the fans had none of it and turned Orton.

I was excited for it at first. There was that slight (almost impossible) chance that John Cena could turn heel since the fans were cheering the man that tried to end his career and tried to kick his fathers head off. He could have been a new Rattlesnake...a new anti-hero Stone Cold.

But then Orton embraced Cena after the match.

He embraced Cena?

If it was the Attitude Era and we were talking about Stone Cold and the Rock instead of Randy Orton and John Cena, it would never have gone down like that. Let's say...it was Stone Cold vs Triple H with the Rock as guest referee. Same stipulations apply. The Rock pushes Triple H into a Stunner, D-X runs down and helps Triple H to the back. Do you think Austin would have embraced the Rock? Hell no. He'd have either just given the Rock a beer toast or given him a Stunner to send him home with...but probably both.

After the match, Orton shouldn't have hugged him. He should have shook his hand and nailed him with an RKO. Thanks, but no thanks I didn't need your help. He just seems like they've neutered his character to the point where he's lost everything that made him a cool heel except his finisher. WWE's snakes...whether they be rattlesnakes or vipers, do not hug. (Unless you're talking about the comedic stylings of one Steve Austin. Then it's ok.)

Then again, maybe I'm just being a weepy chimp.

[Pseudonym]

I have to agree with everything you said.

[Ricky Nightshade]

Gonna leave this here.

[Danimal]

Jan 15, 2011 0:01:05 GMT -5 Rolent Tex said:

I know it's been done and over with for a couple months already, but there was something about the ending of the Survivor Series main event that bothered me but I couldn't put my finger on it. It wasn't the ending...that surprised me actually. It wasn't the fact that Cena completely no sold his firing. That was a whole other story. Then it hit me. PG face Randy Orton is just not working for me...and I finally realized why.

Randy had a great heel run with Evolution (before his first lame forced face turn) and then with Legacy (before the entire angle just fizzled out and was barely mentioned again after Mania.) Randy was a heel with an edge...a crazed psycho that hears voices in his head as Michael Cole reminds us on a weekly basis. Then when the time came to turn Cody and Ted face, the fans had none of it and turned Orton.

I was excited for it at first. There was that slight (almost impossible) chance that John Cena could turn heel since the fans were cheering the man that tried to end his career and tried to kick his fathers head off. He could have been a new Rattlesnake...a new anti-hero Stone Cold.

But then Orton embraced Cena after the match.

He embraced Cena?

If it was the Attitude Era and we were talking about Stone Cold and the Rock instead of Randy Orton and John Cena, it would never have gone down like that. Let's say...it was Stone Cold vs Triple H with the Rock as guest referee. Same stipulations apply. The Rock pushes Triple H into a Stunner, D-X runs down and helps Triple H to the back. Do you think Austin would have embraced the Rock? Hell no. He'd have either just given the Rock a beer toast or given him a Stunner to send him home with...but probably both.

After the match, Orton shouldn't have hugged him. He should have shook his hand and nailed him with an RKO. Thanks, but no thanks I didn't need your help. He just seems like they've neutered his character to the point where he's lost everything that made him a cool heel except his finisher. WWE's snakes...whether they be rattlesnakes or vipers, do not hug. (Unless you're talking about the comedic stylings of one Steve Austin. Then it's ok.)

Then again, maybe I'm just being a weepy chimp.

They did the same when they did Morrison's not-so-hot faceturn, took away what made him a cool heel. Took away what made the character interesting.

[The Ichi]

I saw the embrace at the end as Orton finally gaining some respect for Cena for keeping his word, but I agree that face Orton just doesn't work.

[CJ]

He's just a generic babyface now imo

[dreamer75]

Jan 15, 2011 2:03:53 GMT -5 Ricky Nightshade said:

Gonna leave this here.

This pretty much summed the OP

[Deleted]

I believe it is the fact that Orton is not Cena. Most fans believe that Orton is the anti-Cena because he is basically opposes John Cena's ideals and pretty much everything he stands for, when in actuality, he's not really that much different from Cena at all from a non-kayfabe viewpoint.

You really could say that Orton and Cena are different and, at the same time, alike in every way.

[Deleted]

He's passed The Threshold. The thing that allows a wrestler to get booed by turning heel. It's over. Edge has the exact same problem; his most recent heel turn was a total failure because people had no more willingness to boo him. This isn't limited to the main event, or even the men's divisions (ask me for examples, and I can explain exactly what I'm talking about), but Randy is easily the most visible case. The fans have fallen in love with him to the point that they don't want to boo him because they don't care what the writers tell them, in terms of who they should like and dislike. They WANT to like Orton and his character, and they always will.

Lame face or tweener-ish face, Orton's never going to be able to play a competent heel ever again. Even if he does manage a turn in the future, I bet you it won't be sustained more than four months at the most.

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

He has a finisher that pops the crowd and is not Cena.

Other than that, I got nothin' as to why he is popular.

[wwefan78]

If the fans will cheer Orton no matter what he does, why not let him be a psycho and RKO everyone just because he can? It shouldn't matter what he does the since the fans will always cheer him. Why WWE needed to alter a heelcharacter that got huge facepops I'll never understand. Maybe creative can't write for a face that doesn't act like a traditional good guy. Maybe everything needs to be black and white in WWE, where faces keep hugging babies and kissing fat chicks, while heels care about winning titles at any cost and making money. At least Dave Batista had his priorities straight before he left..

[riseofsetian1981]

That's what made Austin so cool as well. He attacked both heels and faces nor did we see him hugging other faces, kissing babies, or trying to do the right thing. He didn't hesitate to stun The Rock, Foley, Taker, or any other popular faces at the time.

Orton is the same individual who punted Cenas dad and now they're hugging?

[Confused Mark Wahlberg]

STOP! NEUTER TIME! ~does Hammer dance~

[itssoeasy23]

Jan 15, 2011 0:01:05 GMT -5 Rolent Tex said:

I know it's been done and over with for a couple months already, but there was something about the ending of the Survivor Series main event that bothered me but I couldn't put my finger on it. It wasn't the ending...that surprised me actually. It wasn't the fact that Cena completely no sold his firing. That was a whole other story. Then it hit me. PG face Randy Orton is just not working for me...and I finally realized why.

Randy had a great heel run with Evolution (before his first lame forced face turn) and then with Legacy (before the entire angle just fizzled out and was barely mentioned again after Mania.) Randy was a heel with an edge...a crazed psycho that hears voices in his head as Michael Cole reminds us on a weekly basis. Then when the time came to turn Cody and Ted face, the fans had none of it and turned Orton.

I was excited for it at first. There was that slight (almost impossible) chance that John Cena could turn heel since the fans were cheering the man that tried to end his career and tried to kick his fathers head off. He could have been a new Rattlesnake...a new anti-hero Stone Cold.

But then Orton embraced Cena after the match.

He embraced Cena?

If it was the Attitude Era and we were talking about Stone Cold and the Rock instead of Randy Orton and John Cena, it would never have gone down like that. Let's say...it was Stone Cold vs Triple H with the Rock as guest referee. Same stipulations apply. The Rock pushes Triple H into a Stunner, D-X runs down and helps Triple H to the back. Do you think Austin would have embraced the Rock? Hell no. He'd have either just given the Rock a beer toast or given him a Stunner to send him home with...but probably both.

After the match, Orton shouldn't have hugged him. He should have shook his hand and nailed him with an RKO. Thanks, but no thanks I didn't need your help. He just seems like they've neutered his character to the point where he's lost everything that made him a cool heel except his finisher. WWE's snakes...whether they be rattlesnakes or vipers, do not hug. (Unless you're talking about the comedic stylings of one Steve Austin. Then it's ok.)

Then again, maybe I'm just being a weepy chimp.

First of all, let's take up back to the year 2011. It's not "if it was Rock and Austin," it's Orton and Cena.

"WWE snakes do not hug," what are you, an Attitude Era mark?

He's not Stone Cold, he's Randy Orton.

Why in the blue hell would he hit Cena when Cena did nothing wrong, and their friends.

"You helped me win, so I'll hit you with my title. Becuase that's what some kid on the internet want's me to do."

"He embraced Cena, that's not I wanted him to do. He should have done what Stone Cold would have done and gave him an RKO. That's what should have happened."

See how stupid that sounds.

[BigWill]

Jan 15, 2011 13:42:02 GMT -5 itssoeasy23 said:

Jan 15, 2011 0:01:05 GMT -5 Rolent Tex said:

I know it's been done and over with for a couple months already, but there was something about the ending of the Survivor Series main event that bothered me but I couldn't put my finger on it. It wasn't the ending...that surprised me actually. It wasn't the fact that Cena completely no sold his firing. That was a whole other story. Then it hit me. PG face Randy Orton is just not working for me...and I finally realized why.

Randy had a great heel run with Evolution (before his first lame forced face turn) and then with Legacy (before the entire angle just fizzled out and was barely mentioned a gain after Mania.) Randy was a heel with an edge...a crazed psycho that hears voices in his head as Michael Cole reminds us on a weekly basis. Then when the time came to turn Cody and Ted face, the fans had none of it and turned Orton.

I was excited for it at first. There was that slight (almost impossible) chance that John Cena could turn heel since the fans were cheering the man that tried to end his career and tried to kick his fathers head off. He could have been a new Rattlesnake...a new anti-hero Stone Cold.

But then Orton embraced Cena after the match.

He embraced Cena?

If it was the Attitude Era and we were talking about Stone Cold and the Rock instead of Randy Orton and John Cena, it would never have gone down like that. Let's say...it was Stone Cold vs Triple H with the Rock as guest referee. Same stipulations apply. The Rock pushes Triple H into a Stunner, D-X runs down and helps Triple H to the back. Do you think Austin would have embraced the Rock? Hell no. He'd have either just given the Rock a beer toast or given him a Stunner to send him home with...but probably both.

After the match, Orton shouldn't have hugged him. He should have shook his hand and nailed him with an RKO. Thanks, but no thanks I didn't need your help. He just seems like they've neutered his character to the point where he's lost everything that made him a cool heel except his finisher. WWE's snakes...whether they be rattlesnakes or vipers, do not hug. (Unless you're talking about the comedic stylings of one Steve Austin. Then it's ok.)

Then again, maybe I'm just being a weepy chimp.

First of all, let's take up back to the year 2011. It's not "if it was Rock and Austin," it's Orton and Cena.

"WWE snakes do not hug," what are you, an Attitude Era mark?

He's not Stone Cold, he's Randy Orton.

Why in the blue hell would he hit Cena when Cena did nothing wrong, and their friends.

"You helped me win, so I'll hit you with my title. Becuase that's what some kid on the internet want's me to do."

"He embraced Cena, that's not I wanted him to do. He should have done what Stone Cold would have done and gave him an RKO. That's what should have happened."

See how stupid that sounds.

I don't know where you got the idea that Cena and Orton were friends. Orton himself has repeatedly said that they were definitely anything but. He even gave Cena a random RKO for little reason during the Cena free or fired angle.

I personally miss that Orton. Like when he randomly hits an RKO on Borne after their tag match, and then hits him with another the next week. What happened to that Orton?

[Rolent Tex]

They may be friends backstage, but they've flat out said they're not friends storyline wise. Orton said that he and Cena would put their differences between them to face a greater threat in Nexus.

Also, I'm not an Attitude Era mark...I was a WCW mark.

[saintpat]

For all the people who want Orton and Morrison to be heels -- and it certainly underscores their limitations if they can't get over as faces, if you think they can't -- exactly who do you want them to feud with?

Orton vs. Cena/Triple H? Wow, that would be refreshing.

Morrison vs. Dibiase? Tyson Kidd?

And exactly what about Orton makes him a "generic" babyface -- Does he refuse to break rules no matter what the cost? Not according to his 'No more Mr. Nice Guy in 2011' promo. Does he tell the kids to take their vitamins and say their prayers, or even eat their veggies? Not that I can recall.

IMO, Orton is trying to be the edgy tweener face. I don't see anything generic about him -- I'm not a fan, really, but I don't think of him as coming right out fo Babyface for Dummies.

[Citizen Zero]

Jan 16, 2011 0:21:19 GMT -5 saintpat said:

For all the people who want Orton and Morrison to be heels -- and it certainly underscores their limitations if they can't get over as faces, if you think they can't -- exactly who do you want them to feud with?

I don't necessarily think Morrison should go back to being a heel (Orton's bored me to tears whether he was a face or a heel), I just think that in trying to make him a babyface they've pretty much removed everything that was interesting about him. Honestly, his original gimmick wasn't even all that heelish beyond the usual badmouthing. It's not like he was stalking people and capoeira-kicking them in their homes.

[kingbookermark]

Apparently no one really watched Stone Cold's career all the way through. he did tip his hat and showed respect to some good faces I.e. when he saved stephanie mcmahon from Undertaker's black wedding.

There are other instances as well that I could mention. Jim ross for instance. Sure he stunned him once but late on he always showed respect to JR.

So Orton's embrace made sense to solidify Orton as an anti-hero with a short list of things he respects.

[mrjl]

Jan 15, 2011 0:01:05 GMT -5 Rolent Tex said:

But then Orton embraced Cena after the match.

He embraced Cena?

If it was the Attitude Era and we were talking about Stone Cold and the Rock instead of Randy Orton and John Cena, it would never have gone down like that. Let's say...it was Stone Cold vs Triple H with the Rock as guest referee. Same stipulations apply. The Rock pushes Triple H into a Stunner, D-X runs down and helps Triple H to the back. Do you think Austin would have embraced the Rock? Hell no. He'd have either just given the Rock a beer toast or given him a Stunner to send him home with...but probably both.

After the match, Orton shouldn't have hugged him. He should have shook his hand and nailed him with an RKO. Thanks, but no thanks I didn't need your help. He just seems like they've neutered his character to the point where he's lost everything that made him a cool heel except his finisher. WWE's snakes...whether they be rattlesnakes or vipers, do not hug. (Unless you're talking about the comedic stylings of one Steve Austin. Then it's ok.)

Then again, maybe I'm just being a weepy chimp.

except Orton did need Cena's help. He needed the three count to win.