CJ
Dennis Stamp
C.J. for Friendly wrestling discussion!
Posts: 4,180
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Post by CJ on Feb 23, 2011 21:15:15 GMT -5
He also discussed certain aspects on TNA... but honestly, they weren't all that interesting. Since he used a WWE analogy in his defining of "Smart Mark" I thought I'd post it here Snow on the term "smart mark": The most oxymoronic term out there is a ‘smart-mark. Just doesn’t exist. Because how can you be smart at something – knowing somebody is lying to you, while actually believing the lie. It’s a term created by fans who believe they’re on the inside of something that they’re not really on the inside of. They’re not a part of the business because they don’t have a real stake in it." "A great example is if you ask what was the best match of WrestleMania 3. Most people would say Savage/Steamboat. But it was Hogan/Andre because 93,000 people paid to see Hogan/Andre. The best match isn’t about ‘working’ or ‘taking the best bumps’, it’s the match that draws the most people and makes the most money. That’s the best match." source(s): ProWrestling.net Well, I agree on the smart mark thing, but the Hogan-Andre comparison is bullshit imo. Hogan vs. Andre may have made the money, but that match blew... therefor imo, as far as match quality Savage vs. Steamboat was the best match. So I guess by default, Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett at Bragging Rights was the best match because that is what drew people in, when in most people's opinion it was Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler.  That's an ass-backwards way to look at things imo Thoughts? |
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Post by Citizen Zero on Feb 23, 2011 21:16:54 GMT -5
I don't really consider myself a 'smart mark' honestly. I'm just a fan.
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Post by Johnny Truant on Feb 23, 2011 21:18:53 GMT -5
I don't really consider myself a 'smart mark' honestly. I'm just a fan. Well said. |
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Post by Citizen Snips on Feb 23, 2011 21:19:09 GMT -5
Well, I agree on the smart mark thing, but the Hogan-Andre comparison is bulls*** imo. Doesn't that kind of prove his point? |
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Feb 23, 2011 21:20:09 GMT -5
Wrestling's honestly the only sport where the participants can call the hardcore fanbase morons, and then that same fanbase agree with them.
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CJ
Dennis Stamp
C.J. for Friendly wrestling discussion!
Posts: 4,180
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Post by CJ on Feb 23, 2011 21:20:28 GMT -5
Well, I agree on the smart mark thing, but the Hogan-Andre comparison is bulls*** imo. Doesn't that kind of prove his point? how |
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Feb 23, 2011 21:22:58 GMT -5
Wrestling's honestly the only sport where the participants can call the hardcore fanbase morons, and then that same fanbase agree with them. Agreed. It is, again, a weird, self-loathing business we love. |
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Post by Citizen Zero on Feb 23, 2011 21:23:51 GMT -5
I'm imagining Al Snow's just speaking from a businessman's point of view. And from that point of view Hogan/Andre is the better match.
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Post by "The Rated XXX Superstar" Jed on Feb 23, 2011 21:23:58 GMT -5
I don't really consider myself a 'smart mark' honestly. I'm just a fan. Same. |
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Feb 23, 2011 21:25:48 GMT -5
Wrestling's honestly the only sport where the participants can call the hardcore fanbase morons, and then that same fanbase agree with them. Agreed. It is, again, a weird, self-loathing business we love. I honestly got told, by a friend of mine, after watching him during a training session, actually, after several training sessions, that ideas I pitched him for gimmicks and such were stupid because I wasn't "in the business" and was "just a fan". This was a dude I knew on a very personal level, and went to see him train just about once every other week or so. I don't get it then, and I don't understand Al now. |
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Post by "The Rated XXX Superstar" Jed on Feb 23, 2011 21:31:20 GMT -5
You're right, Al. I should totally base my opinion on what other people think, even if I do think that the Hogan/Andre match was shit.
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Just Jay
Unicron
DIESEL!?!?!
Posts: 3,282
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Post by Just Jay on Feb 23, 2011 21:31:55 GMT -5
I don't consider myself a know it all "smart mark" and don't use any of the so called insider terms. I'm just a dorky wrestling fan. Al Snow is definitely right here.
I can guarantee you that if I was given creative control of RAW, I wouldn't know the slightest bit of what I'm doing since I'm not in the business and have no initial investment in it outside of what I see on TV.
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Post by Supercheese on Feb 23, 2011 21:42:08 GMT -5
Depends on how you are defining best?
From a fan's point of view, what match is the best? It's the one that excited them most.
From a business viewpoint, the best match is the one that draws most.
Now from a fan's point of view Savage - Steamboat may have been most exciting, but I'd imagine most folk went home talking about Andre and Hogan.
I can see his point but he's using the term best in a very limited manner.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2011 21:44:50 GMT -5
The one issue I have with the Hogan/Andre > Savage/Steamboat notion is that the match "quality" doesn't factor in the judgment. IMO, he's describing booking and not working a match. More fans wanted to see Hogan/Andre than Savage/Steamboat, more fans paid to see the match but... the match didn't happen yet when they made that decision. By his logic, all main events are better than all lower card matches by default because the main events are expected to be the reason why people go to see the shows/pay the ppvs.
Using that logic, match "quality" is nowhere near as important as potential match quality. Like all carnies, its more important to sell the expectation of a great spectacle than actually create a great spectacle. That said, of course Hogan/Andre was THE match of Wrestlemania 3, but, had it fallen flat, would it have still been the greater match? If the fans didn't react the way it did, would it have been deemed a success? It got butts into seats but, had it been a snorefest with Andre winning, would it still have been a better match than Savage/Steamboat?
If you are the promoter, it doesn't matter the quality of the match, just as long as people bought the ticket/ppv and will buy again in the future. If you are a fan, you care more about the quality of the match (and I say that Hogan/Andre is a great match just like Savage/Steamboat is a great match only for different reasons) because you aren't making any money off of it, you just want to be entertained. For the wrestlers, I guess it falls in between.
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BxB
Unicron
Only the shift key stands between him and copyright infringement.
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Post by BxB on Feb 23, 2011 21:47:56 GMT -5
While, Al is right about the term smart mark being obnoxious. I also don't like how people from the business impose their opinions on the fans. "Working a match doesn't matter, it's all about the money" to you, yeah, maybe. But the fans can have a different opinion. I can watch Savage/Steamboat a lot more times than I can sit through the Hogan/Andre match.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Feb 23, 2011 21:55:30 GMT -5
No one believes the lie anymore and haven't for a decade or more. No one is sitting there thinking Undertaker is zombie that controls things, that Kane can set people on fire, that anything Bischoff and Hogan have done in taking over TNA is legal or anything of the sort. People see it as a TV show with characters and storylines. If anything Al, there is no such thing as a dumb mark, times have changed and appear to be leaving you behind.
As for his better match debate, it's all opinion. There is no way to say for fact that Match A is better than Match B or even that Match A drew more fans in than Match B did without polling everyone. Having read most his his interview, Al just comes off as a man that wrestling has past by.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Feb 23, 2011 21:57:54 GMT -5
This is not the first time I have read something said by Al Snow that could not be sumed up as "If its not the main event,it does not matter."He also seems to be one of those people whose defense is that if you are not in the business your opinion is stupid.
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Post by Joe Galt on Feb 23, 2011 21:59:51 GMT -5
I have grown to agree with Mr. Snow more and more. The Rock is a perfect example of his point. The Rock isn`t the absolute best wrestler(he`s is good though) but he brings in ratings and the bucks when he wrestles(or just talks). Many people talk more about The Rock`s matches the next day more than any other. That`s whether any of us like it or not.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Feb 23, 2011 22:00:52 GMT -5
I also don't like how people from the business impose their opinions on the fans. I agree. Whenever I see this sort of attitude from people in the business, it just seems to me that they've been in the business so long that they've lost any ability to see things as a fan. |
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Post by Supercheese on Feb 23, 2011 22:10:24 GMT -5
No one believes the lie anymore and haven't for a decade or more. No one is sitting there thinking Undertaker is zombie that controls things, that Kane can set people on fire, that anything Bischoff and Hogan have done in taking over TNA is legal or anything of the sort. People see it as a TV show with characters and storylines. If anything Al, there is no such thing as a dumb mark, times have changed and appear to be leaving you behind. As for his better match debate, it's all opinion. There is no way to say for fact that Match A is better than Match B or even that Match A drew more fans in than Match B did without polling everyone. Having read most his his interview, Al just comes off as a man that wrestling has past by. I agree just like we know actors aren't actually that person in films or television shows we can still react to their actions in that character, it can be delight, disgust, happy or sad or in some cases, which is happening more and more with the WWE audience, apathy. |
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helped $lim jinx NXT. Woops
