ToyfareMark
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Post by ToyfareMark on Jan 30, 2011 1:13:29 GMT -5
WCW really died some time in 1997. Sadly the body was never discovered until 2001. How can you possibly even say that? 1997 was arguably WCW's greatest year throughout their entire existence. He more than likely means Starrcade 97. Because after that it was a slow downward spiral for WCW until it landed in its grave. And I couldn't have been happier. I gave up on WCW in 94 when Hogan showed up, and sporadically followed it every now and then. I mean I kept up with what was going on with it, would watch the Nitro replay and fast forward most of it, but all I wanted was for it to go away. Some people cried tears of sadness, I cried tears of joy. And even with all thats happened since, I wouldn't change it for anything. It might not be a popular opinion, but its how I feel about it. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate everything WCW blindly, there were things I liked, but deep down I wanted it gone. Sorry.
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Post by alabastergrim on Jan 30, 2011 3:16:42 GMT -5
But why would you want it gone? Wouldn't you prefer it to have improved and become real competition to the WWF? Wrestling is incredibly bland now and having only one true powerhouse, I feel, is the reason for that. Not attacking your opinion, I'm just curious.
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ToyfareMark
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Post by ToyfareMark on Jan 30, 2011 5:22:37 GMT -5
But why would you want it gone? Wouldn't you prefer it to have improved and become real competition to the WWF? Wrestling is incredibly bland now and having only one true powerhouse, I feel, is the reason for that. Not attacking your opinion, I'm just curious. Because eventually it was gonna happen, one of them was eventually gonna go away. There was no avoiding it. Its just the one that I wanted to win...well they won. I feel that if WCW had driven Vince out of business then AOL/Time Warner would have dumped WCW regardless, and the wrestling industry would still be recovering from it now. There would be no wrestling in prime time. Cable channels would feel that if the 2 big companies couldn't survive, then what chance would some new upstart with no brand recognition have? The biggest stars would have drifted to Hollywood. Not just Rock and Austin. Would they all be big stars in the movies? Of course not, but they would most likely get steady work, and not have to be on the road most of the year. So you'd have some new promotion, using mostly left over lower and mid card talent from WCW, and the WWF. It wouldn't be on in prime time because no channel is gonna take the risk. I'm not saying they wouldn't be on TV at all, but more than likely it would get late nights or mornings on the weekends. Alot of the stars we have now would have more than likely left the business before they got their big breaks. Thats great if you hate John Cena, but with no future stars, the business has no future. WCW surviving and being part owned by Bischoff wouldn't fare much better. No TBS or TNT for sure. I know you guys probably think WCW could easilly get a spot on some channel, but be realistic. By 2001 the WCW brand was such a laughingstock, and had little to no value to networks who wouldn't wanna be associated with a promotion with the reputation of a loser. And judging how Bischoff has handled TNA in 2010, I think its safe to say that putting WCW in his hands wouldn't have been the best of ideas. So like I said, one of them had to go, the Monday Night Wars weren't just about TV ratings, they were about the future of the business on a national level, and one of them just wasn't meant to survive. WWE may not have been the greatest in the decade that has passed since WCW said farewell, but they have done plenty of good things as well, and they keep the business pretty relavant. They still have one of the top shows on cable, they still make a profit, and when they want to they still can put on a hell of a show. So to me its like this. WCW wins, WWE goes under = WCW goes out of business anyway due to their parent company not wanting anything to do with wrestling. The industry dissapears from the national scene for a long time WCW gets bought by Bischoff and Fusient = WCW gets a stay of execution for a couple years at best until Fusient gets tired of Bischoff losing money with the way he runs the company and sells WCW to Vince anyway. And yes, Vince McMahon would be the only person to buy WCW, because who else with the money to afford it would want it? And before you say Ted Turner you gotta remember he has no say so in the channels he created anymore, so WCW would be worthless to him. Its best that things went down the way they did, we'd be much worse off as fans had anything else happened. This is all just my opinion though, believe what you will.
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SAJ Forth
Wade Wilson
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Post by SAJ Forth on Jan 30, 2011 21:44:49 GMT -5
It's the kind of moment that even when we are old and grey, will feel like it just happened.
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Post by briant1 on Jan 30, 2011 23:58:59 GMT -5
Hard to believe it's bee ten years, but by the end it was not surprising.
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Post by alabastergrim on Jan 31, 2011 1:58:50 GMT -5
Well thought out answer Toyfare and I appreciate it. I don't agree with your conclusion about wrestlers going to Hollywood and wrestling basically being dead just cause WWE closed down but I agree that AOL would've pulled WCW no matter what.
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Post by Danimal on Jan 31, 2011 3:17:30 GMT -5
I'm going to have to stop you there. Despite what history revisionists say, only WWF and WCW were in the war, ECW was just a glorified indy promotion. They weren't a threat to either company. A threat? No, you're right about that. An inspiration? A feeder system? Well ... probably. ECW was kind of like The Ramones or the Velvet Underground. They didn't make that much money but they were hugely influential. WWE won the wars by biting off of ECW.
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ToyfareMark
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A WINNER IS YOU!
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Post by ToyfareMark on Jan 31, 2011 3:39:58 GMT -5
Well thought out answer Toyfare and I appreciate it. I don't agree with your conclusion about wrestlers going to Hollywood and wrestling basically being dead just cause WWE closed down but I agree that AOL would've pulled WCW no matter what. When I said wrestlers going to Hollywood, I wasn't talking about them all being leading men and stuff like that. But alot of the bigger stars I think would have gotten steady work as stuntmen, and guys playing henchmen and things like that, maybe some character parts needing bigger guys with personality. Of course some of them could probably make a good living starring in low budget DTV movies too. And that is pretty much Steve Austin's career now. As for wrestling dying, I didn't say that. I said it would disappear from the national scene. With the two biggest feds having died out I just don't see any cable channel giving a new upstart a slot on prime time. If no one can get on prime time TV it would be very hard for any fed to build an audience. They could but it would take alot longer. The wrestling business would indeed survive, but with no national promotions the indies would have to carry the torch of the industry, and hopefully one of them would rise up and bring wrestling back into the public conciousness. It would just take time, and alot of it. But until that were to happen wrestling fans would have to survive on the indies, and puro until the time came for some fed to take over. The business itself would have survived, sorry if I mislead anyone.
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Post by Bald Bull on Jan 31, 2011 5:03:35 GMT -5
Well thought out answer Toyfare and I appreciate it. I don't agree with your conclusion about wrestlers going to Hollywood and wrestling basically being dead just cause WWE closed down but I agree that AOL would've pulled WCW no matter what. When I said wrestlers going to Hollywood, I wasn't talking about them all being leading men and stuff like that. But alot of the bigger stars I think would have gotten steady work as stuntmen, and guys playing henchmen and things like that, maybe some character parts needing bigger guys with personality. Of course some of them could probably make a good living starring in low budget DTV movies too. And that is pretty much Steve Austin's career now. As for wrestling dying, I didn't say that. I said it would disappear from the national scene. With the two biggest feds having died out I just don't see any cable channel giving a new upstart a slot on prime time. If no one can get on prime time TV it would be very hard for any fed to build an audience. They could but it would take alot longer. The wrestling business would indeed survive, but with no national promotions the indies would have to carry the torch of the industry, and hopefully one of them would rise up and bring wrestling back into the public conciousness. It would just take time, and alot of it. But until that were to happen wrestling fans would have to survive on the indies, and puro until the time came for some fed to take over. The business itself would have survived, sorry if I mislead anyone. Ugh, if the WWF had died before the AOL/TW merger, XPW would've been the #1 US company from 01-02. Then they would've died in the Rob Black scandal. Then someone else would've taken over. Probably someone with a lot of $ would've made a new company that had gotten a TV deal. Maybe Jarrett and NWA-TNA?
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Post by alabastergrim on Feb 1, 2011 2:28:10 GMT -5
It's cool Toyfare, I'm pretty sure I just jumped to a conclusion there. I feel that if WWE died and AOL closed Time Warner, we'd either get a company like USA or TNN (Spike) who'd willingly put wrestling on. It'd probably have been XPW though...
OR
A new version of the territories system would've developed. Smart companies would use the Internet to grow THEN most likely get a tv deal.
A lot of what-ifs of course but still cool to think about. Whatever the end result, I personally don't believe that wrestling would be as stale as it is today. (I do like WWE I just think they're way too complacent due to their monopoly. And I like TNA but their booking tends to be all over the place.)
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Post by Citizen Zero on Feb 1, 2011 6:17:31 GMT -5
Well thought out answer Toyfare and I appreciate it. I don't agree with your conclusion about wrestlers going to Hollywood and wrestling basically being dead just cause WWE closed down but I agree that AOL would've pulled WCW no matter what. When I said wrestlers going to Hollywood, I wasn't talking about them all being leading men and stuff like that. But alot of the bigger stars I think would have gotten steady work as stuntmen, and guys playing henchmen and things like that, maybe some character parts needing bigger guys with personality. Of course some of them could probably make a good living starring in low budget DTV movies too. And that is pretty much Steve Austin's career now. As for wrestling dying, I didn't say that. I said it would disappear from the national scene. With the two biggest feds having died out I just don't see any cable channel giving a new upstart a slot on prime time. If no one can get on prime time TV it would be very hard for any fed to build an audience. They could but it would take alot longer. Actually...with improving technology in the field of online streaming a revitalization of the industry might've come along sooner than people might think.
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ToyfareMark
Vegeta
A WINNER IS YOU!
In Hutch I trust!
Posts: 9,626
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Post by ToyfareMark on Feb 1, 2011 8:15:27 GMT -5
When I said wrestlers going to Hollywood, I wasn't talking about them all being leading men and stuff like that. But alot of the bigger stars I think would have gotten steady work as stuntmen, and guys playing henchmen and things like that, maybe some character parts needing bigger guys with personality. Of course some of them could probably make a good living starring in low budget DTV movies too. And that is pretty much Steve Austin's career now. As for wrestling dying, I didn't say that. I said it would disappear from the national scene. With the two biggest feds having died out I just don't see any cable channel giving a new upstart a slot on prime time. If no one can get on prime time TV it would be very hard for any fed to build an audience. They could but it would take alot longer. Actually...with improving technology in the field of online streaming a revitalization of the industry might've come along sooner than people might think. That is true, and it definitely would play a big part in it. In 2001 though broadband wasn't in nearly enough homes. As it got into more homes it would indeed become a bigger factor. Youtube launched in 2005 I believe. and hell I was on dial up until 2007. So feds still would have needed to wait for the technology to be available to people in mass numbers. I still don't see anyone getting prime time though, late night or afternoons I could buy. I mean thats the route TNA had to take before getting prime time.
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Post by FailedGimmick on Feb 1, 2011 9:25:22 GMT -5
Heres the image I saved from WWF.com on the 23rd March 2001. I was on their website, refreshed the main page and that image appeared, I was like wtf!! Edit: Now bare in mind that 10 years ago screen resolutions was smaller, this took up half the screen. I was absolutely floored when I saw this. This was at a time when I paid no attention to backstage rumors and news. I didn't know what was happening, but I couldn't wait to find out.
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