can one "off" night

[vajayajayava]

determine the course of a legacy?

A lot of what we remember about these wrestlers or superstars is based on the given events of a particular Sunday or Monday that might have occurred anywhere from several years to a decade ago or longer.

and if it didn't happen or those individuals had an off or mediocre night the whole course of history might have been different

Look at say Shawn Michaels. During his ladder match with Razor Ramon, if he took a bunch of slips in that match or couldn't work well with Razor, by chance they had bad chemistry and the blame was put on Shawn. He may have lost his push. eventually been released. never became the legend he is today

Take a ROCK promo in the very early days of that character. What if he had stumbled over his words on just one night and it had been enough for McMahon to pull the plug on the character? Much like McGillicutty did at the season of NXT season 2.


am I way off on this? your thoughts?

[Chiral]

I think it depends on which night is the off night. If they screw up on a really important show, then yes, it could totally ruin them. If it's on a throwaway show, they can most likely rebound.

[Deleted]

In the fans' eyes I don't think it can. I think in terms of a wrestler having an off night and then the higher ups pulling the plug based on that could tarnish a potential legacy, but in my opinion if the fans like a guy enough I think they are willing to forgive an off night as long as it truly is just ONE off night.

Shawn Michaels was/is good enough that if he and Razor stunk up the joint, as long as the bookers kept pushing him he was bound to have a breakout match with someone, maybe even in a rematch against Razor Ramon. If there's a wrestler that the fans are really behind, I think if they have a one off clunker of a match they'll turn a blind eye to it as long as they can make up for it after, but if the brass gets cold feet and decides to pull back the reigns on him then there's nothing anyone can do about it.

[Bo Rida]

I think the infamous promo Matt Hardy cut on Edge ensured that he was never given a chance to main-event. I suppose the opposite of that was the famous Austin 3:16 promo, although I expect Austin still would have made it to the main-event.

Although it didn't change anything Goldberg and Brock Lesnar's abysmal match at WMXX tarnished both their legacy's, for many it's one of the most prominent memories of both men.

[ICBM]

Jan 15, 2011 16:47:07 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

I think the infamous promo Matt Hardy cut on Edge ensured that he was never given a chance to main-event. I suppose the opposite of that was the famous Austin 3:16 promo, although I expect Austin still would have made it to the main-event.

Although it didn't change anything Goldberg and Brock Lesnar's abysmal match at WMXX tarnished both their legacy's, for many it's one of the most prominent memories of both men.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2011 16:47:07 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

I think the infamous promo Matt Hardy cut on Edge ensured that he was never given a chance to main-event. I suppose the opposite of that was the famous Austin 3:16 promo, although I expect Austin still would have made it to the main-event.

Although it didn't change anything Goldberg and Brock Lesnar's abysmal match at WMXX tarnished both their legacy's, for many it's one of the most prominent memories of both men.

Hardy though I think it was more than one off night. That was a really unfortunate promo, and then it was followed by a brutal ass kicking at the hands of Edge. I think it could be argued after that promo that they still could've salvaged the angle. Because even if Matt knocked it out the box with his first promo back, if the plan all along was to have Edge soundly tar Matt Hardy the way he did I don't think the angle would've ever got off the ground regardless.

I disagree with Brock and Goldberg too because they could easily come back and put butts in seats if they chose to. Even though they left on a sour note their star power is still in tact. Well Brock anyway, hard to say with Goldberg.

[vajayajayava]

Jan 15, 2011 16:42:17 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

In the fans' eyes I don't think it can. I think in terms of a wrestler having an off night and then the higher ups pulling the plug based on that could tarnish a potential legacy, but in my opinion if the fans like a guy enough I think they are willing to forgive an off night as long as it truly is just ONE off night.

Shawn Michaels was/is good enough that if he and Razor stunk up the joint, as long as the bookers kept pushing him he was bound to have a breakout match with someone, maybe even in a rematch against Razor Ramon. If there's a wrestler that the fans are really behind, I think if they have a one off clunker of a match they'll turn a blind eye to it as long as they can make up for it after, but if the brass gets cold feet and decides to pull back the reigns on him then there's nothing anyone can do about it.

I agree somewhat, but I do think one match can really ruin it. Especially if it is a big match or spot or angle. If the Iron man match between Bret and Shawn had been really all over the place and messy, if Shawn hadn't come out somewhat clean and put over as a champ.

Like some of the other guy was saying below.
One night back in December of 97 is still brought up today as a major reason why WCW went under. I think we all know what match and finish I'm talking about. It also devalued everyone of the performers involved.

[________ has left the building]

Jackie Gayda

[Society of the Spectacle]

I think Wrestling, especially in WWE in contrary to popular belief, a land of second chances if you hang around long enough . Very few people with exceptional amounts of talent---and most with even mediocre talent-- will be given a second or third shot usually. I guess it also depends on who's high on you. If Daniel Bryan had a stinker of a match with Jericho in his first match on NXT, I doubt anyone would have been calling for his release the next night; there is just too many people connected with the WWE that are high on him. I know someone like Joe Hennig had a terrible night on the NXT2 finale, but I don't see why he can't bounce back at some point in the future. Maybe it's a more on-point promo, maybe it's a particularly well booked beatdown of someone. The NXT1 guys looked terrible and very low-budget throughout most of NXT's initial season, but the booking team stuck with them, and they became one of the biggest stories of 2010.

I think at the very least, if someone has a night THAT bad (and really, it would have to be "Boom Goes the Dynamite" Levels of Bad) WWE could just send them down to FCW for a while or repackage them. All is not always lost.

[vajayajayava]

Jan 15, 2011 18:37:23 GMT -5 Society of the Spectacle said:

I think Wrestling, especially in WWE in contrary to popular belief, a land of second chances if you hang around long enough . Very few people with exceptional amounts of talent---and most with even mediocre talent-- will be given a second or third shot usually. I guess it also depends on who's high on you. If Daniel Bryan had a stinker of a match with Jericho in his first match on NXT, I doubt anyone would have been calling for his release the next night; there is just too many people connected with the WWE that are high on him. I know someone like Joe Hennig had a terrible night on the NXT2 finale, but I don't see why he can't bounce back at some point in the future. Maybe it's a more on-point promo, maybe it's a particularly well booked beatdown of someone. The NXT1 guys looked terrible and very low-budget throughout most of NXT's initial season, but the booking team stuck with them, and they became one of the biggest stories of 2010.

I think at the very least, if someone has a night THAT bad (and really, it would have to be "Boom Goes the Dynamite" Levels of Bad) WWE could just send them down to FCW for a while or repackage them. All is not always lost.

always two sides to something. and you make very good points

[Hypnotix]

Buff Bagwell. He was a mainstay with WCW when wrestling was at its peak. Then he had one match on WWF Raw and was gone the next day. Though, if I recall, there was a story about his mom calling in sick for him.

[Metalheadbanger Man]

Jan 16, 2011 11:54:45 GMT -5 Hypnotix said:

Buff Bagwell. He was a mainstay with WCW when wrestling was at its peak. Then he had one match on WWF Raw and was gone the next day. Though, if I recall, there was a story about his mom calling in sick for him.

There was that backstage fight with Helms as well I think, and something about refusing to take his hat off.

He didn't make too many friends in the week he was there.

[Jay Peas 42]

I belive Brock Lesnar's SSP, and the match where D'Lo crippled Droz are examples of having one bad night ruin one's career.

[noleafclover1980]

Jan 15, 2011 18:10:31 GMT -5 ________ has left the building said:

Jackie Gayda

It's not like she ever had an "on" night... she stunk.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Jan 17, 2011 17:46:50 GMT -5 Metalheadbanger Man said:

Jan 16, 2011 11:54:45 GMT -5 Hypnotix said:

Buff Bagwell. He was a mainstay with WCW when wrestling was at its peak. Then he had one match on WWF Raw and was gone the next day. Though, if I recall, there was a story about his mom calling in sick for him.

There was that backstage fight with Helms as well I think, and something about refusing to take his hat off.

He didn't make too many friends in the week he was there.

Yeah, there's the story of his mum calling J.R. saying he was too sick to do house shows but he'd be ok for TV, which went over as well as you'd expect.