Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Mar 10, 2011 18:17:40 GMT -5
I think Muhammad Hassan is a pretty bad example. It seemed like they were going to debut him as a neutral character, but the fans booed him right away, because the audience has been trained to think that any Middle Eastern wrestler is to be booed like the Iron Sheik back in the 80's. Then again, I'm sure WWE was planning on going the evil foreigner route with him from the beginning and just wanted to make it seem at first like they weren't going to stoop to that level. He was never really neutral though, they had those vignettes where he talks about being wrong and acting all heelish and then he debuted by interrupting Mick Foley and bashing the US troops. People like to say it was an intelligent gimmick but it was just the evil foreigner gimmick that was trying to benefit from 9/11 and the War in Iraq. I wouldn't have minded it if they HAD debuted him as neutral (ie: no angry vignettes) and the fans booed him so he could then point out their racism and hatred.
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Post by Rorschach on Mar 10, 2011 18:21:41 GMT -5
I think Muhammad Hassan is a pretty bad example. It seemed like they were going to debut him as a neutral character, but the fans booed him right away, because the audience has been trained to think that any Middle Eastern wrestler is to be booed like the Iron Sheik back in the 80's. Then again, I'm sure WWE was planning on going the evil foreigner route with him from the beginning and just wanted to make it seem at first like they weren't going to stoop to that level. He was never really neutral though, they had those vignettes where he talks about being wrong and acting all heelish and then he debuted by interrupting Mick Foley and bashing the US troops. People like to say it was an intelligent gimmick but it was just the evil foreigner gimmick that was trying to benefit from 9/11 and the War in Iraq. I wouldn't have minded it if they HAD debuted him as neutral (ie: no angry vignettes) and the fans booed him so he could then point out their racism and hatred. Ummm....the point WAS that he was angry that he was being lumped in with all the "terrorists" and people were xenophobic about him because he was Middle Eastern. And he had a point (originally).
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Post by Citizen Zero on Mar 10, 2011 18:24:05 GMT -5
He was never really neutral though, they had those vignettes where he talks about being wrong and acting all heelish and then he debuted by interrupting Mick Foley and bashing the US troops. People like to say it was an intelligent gimmick but it was just the evil foreigner gimmick that was trying to benefit from 9/11 and the War in Iraq. I wouldn't have minded it if they HAD debuted him as neutral (ie: no angry vignettes) and the fans booed him so he could then point out their racism and hatred. Ummm....the point WAS that he was angry that he was being lumped in with all the "terrorists" and people were xenophobic about him because he was Middle Eastern. And he had a point (originally). The main problem with Hassan was, right or wrong, as Cena helpfully pointed out, he was still an asshole.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 10, 2011 18:33:12 GMT -5
He was never really neutral though, they had those vignettes where he talks about being wrong and acting all heelish and then he debuted by interrupting Mick Foley and bashing the US troops. People like to say it was an intelligent gimmick but it was just the evil foreigner gimmick that was trying to benefit from 9/11 and the War in Iraq. I wouldn't have minded it if they HAD debuted him as neutral (ie: no angry vignettes) and the fans booed him so he could then point out their racism and hatred. Ummm....the point WAS that he was angry that he was being lumped in with all the "terrorists" and people were xenophobic about him because he was Middle Eastern. And he had a point (originally). no he did not. Because he was only booed after insulting people and behaving as a heel. He would have only had a point if they'd debuted him as a babyface who never did anything questionable, wrestled heels and helped faces and the crowd still booed him.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Mar 10, 2011 18:35:47 GMT -5
Dude Hassan's vignettes and promos were so angry. How are people supposed to react to a screaming Arab?
"Hey you're right... Yayy...."
Hassan: you people treat me like crap, and you're all racists Audience: Applause.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 18:44:39 GMT -5
Sure, the crowd can be racist. But they can also be not racist. This question is obscenely vague.
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Post by alabastergrim on Mar 10, 2011 19:48:50 GMT -5
Chant "USA" when someone comes out from another country. Oh my god, I hate that s***. The only time it really made sense was when it involved Sheik/Volkoff, Slaughter, Un-Americans or Muhammad Hassan. Any other time is stupid. Hassan was billed from Detroit, unless we're disowning Detroit now...
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Mar 10, 2011 22:41:02 GMT -5
How about a very recent example, when R-Truth said he was going to "send Alberto Del Rio back where he came from"? I believe they were in Arizona, which made that even worse. Yes, but in Truth's defense he probably thought they were in Milwaukee.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 22:45:18 GMT -5
Kofi Kingston. And you may say, well, the Jamaican accent, but people from Jamaica likely have one, so he wasn't playing up anything. It's not like he was smoking weed and listening to Bob Marley. And now that he's from Africa, and no longer the fakin Jamaican, he doesn't really play up any Africa stereotypes. Or he's not like Prince Nana or anything. The exception that proves the rule? "The exception that proves the rule" doesn't mean "every rule has exceptions". It refers to when a rule is proven by way of exception. For instance, the presence of a "no u-turns 4-6pm" sign at an intersection proves that u-turns ARE allowed the other 22 hours. Sorry, that just Grinds My Gears.
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Post by Rorschach on Mar 10, 2011 22:50:40 GMT -5
Ummm....the point WAS that he was angry that he was being lumped in with all the "terrorists" and people were xenophobic about him because he was Middle Eastern. And he had a point (originally). no he did not. Because he was only booed after insulting people and behaving as a heel. He would have only had a point if they'd debuted him as a babyface who never did anything questionable, wrestled heels and helped faces and the crowd still booed him. No, he was insulting them in retaliation for the perceived racism and xenophobia he thought they were heaping on him. Go back to those earlier vignettes, where he and Daivari (who did nearly ALL of the screaming in Farsi) talk about how he's from Detroit, and a proud American, and they walk into a corner grocery store and get heckled. He was angry because as an Arab, he was AUTOMATICALLY assumed to be a "terrorist" and a villain. He never got a chance to "win over" the crowd, as they booed him as SOON as that music hit. But as someone else said earlier, in the wake of 9/11, there was never going to be ANY other reaction to such a character. However, that played into the bitching and complaining Hassan did after that, telling crowds that "they never gave him a chance" and that he was "just as American as they were". Of course, he DID still behave like a heel, but so does Orton and the fans cheer him. It's all about context there, and as has been stated in multiple threads on the subject, the Hassan character was just too DEEP for the shallow "take at face value" world of pro wrestling.
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Mar 10, 2011 23:24:59 GMT -5
I think people throw around the word "racist" too often.
Foreigners have always been heels for the most part. But it's not that they're from elsewhere, it's usually that they put down America (or where they are at the time) and show a sense of superiority. Just the same as when someone from NY goes into Bostonand proclaims the Yankees are great. Are the Boston fans xenophobic or is it all just part of the innocent turf war?
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 10, 2011 23:32:33 GMT -5
no he did not. Because he was only booed after insulting people and behaving as a heel. He would have only had a point if they'd debuted him as a babyface who never did anything questionable, wrestled heels and helped faces and the crowd still booed him. No, he was insulting them in retaliation for the perceived racism and xenophobia he thought they were heaping on him. Go back to those earlier vignettes, where he and Daivari (who did nearly ALL of the screaming in Farsi) talk about how he's from Detroit, and a proud American, and they walk into a corner grocery store and get heckled. He was angry because as an Arab, he was AUTOMATICALLY assumed to be a "terrorist" and a villain. He never got a chance to "win over" the crowd, as they booed him as SOON as that music hit. But as someone else said earlier, in the wake of 9/11, there was never going to be ANY other reaction to such a character. However, that played into the bitching and complaining Hassan did after that, telling crowds that "they never gave him a chance" and that he was "just as American as they were". Of course, he DID still behave like a heel, but so does Orton and the fans cheer him. It's all about context there, and as has been stated in multiple threads on the subject, the Hassan character was just too DEEP for the shallow "take at face value" world of pro wrestling. were the fans in the crowd in the grocery store where he got insulted. Blaming people in the audience for your problems wqhen they have nothing to do with it is a pretty basic heel trick. He'd marked himself as a heel before the first time his music was ever played and then did nothing to change it. He also wrestled people the fans wanted to cheer, unlike Orton. Also, wrestling is a take at face value world as you plainly say. Gimmicks are designed to be taken at face value. You're imagining it was to deep, adding layers no one ever intended.
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Post by Rorschach on Mar 10, 2011 23:38:03 GMT -5
No, he was insulting them in retaliation for the perceived racism and xenophobia he thought they were heaping on him. Go back to those earlier vignettes, where he and Daivari (who did nearly ALL of the screaming in Farsi) talk about how he's from Detroit, and a proud American, and they walk into a corner grocery store and get heckled. He was angry because as an Arab, he was AUTOMATICALLY assumed to be a "terrorist" and a villain. He never got a chance to "win over" the crowd, as they booed him as SOON as that music hit. But as someone else said earlier, in the wake of 9/11, there was never going to be ANY other reaction to such a character. However, that played into the bitching and complaining Hassan did after that, telling crowds that "they never gave him a chance" and that he was "just as American as they were". Of course, he DID still behave like a heel, but so does Orton and the fans cheer him. It's all about context there, and as has been stated in multiple threads on the subject, the Hassan character was just too DEEP for the shallow "take at face value" world of pro wrestling. were the fans in the crowd in the grocery store where he got insulted. Blaming people in the audience for your problems wqhen they have nothing to do with it is a pretty basic heel trick. He'd marked himself as a heel before the first time his music was ever played and then did nothing to change it. He also wrestled people the fans wanted to cheer, unlike Orton. Also, wrestling is a take at face value world as you plainly say. Gimmicks are designed to be taken at face value. You're imagining it was to deep, adding layers no one ever intended. I'm not imagining ANYTHING. That character's natural progression was dumped in favor of just straight up making him a full on terrorist. What COULD have been a very deep character was made shallow and insulting, because fans DO take things at "face value". The WWE also had the horrible timing of turning him full on terrorist right at the same time as the 7/7 Bombings in London, which is when I do believe creative made the decision to "kill off" the character.
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Post by casualobserver on Mar 11, 2011 0:46:09 GMT -5
Raciest? Like Divas in naughty clothing? "What's wrong with being racy?"
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Mar 11, 2011 3:11:15 GMT -5
Ironically, I'm not exactly sure the etymology but I would guess that the term "racy" has a racist connotation if you were to trace it back to it's origin.
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Mar 11, 2011 4:02:36 GMT -5
Ironically, I'm not exactly sure the etymology but I would guess that the term "racy" has a racist connotation if you were to trace it back to it's origin. So does "yellow" yet people still use it not knowing this at all. lol
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2011 8:47:52 GMT -5
Believe me,I've seen a crowd be very racist. During a match involving Harlem Heat against The Outsiders at a WCW house show I was at,a small portion of the crowd was chanting some not so nice things at Harlem Heat. Kevin Nash got on the microphone and told them that if they didn't cut it out,they were leaving and the show wouldn't continue. Luckily,that got them to shut up. We didn't hear that part at our house show. At the end, when Scott Hall used a foreign object and acted KOed after the pinfall, Booker got on the mic and, under no uncertain terms, called all of us a bunch of racist [so-and-sos] just because the crowd was so pro-nWo. Then again, our area is pretty mixed: white, black & Spanish. If you throw racist epithets around liberally, somebody close-by will kick your ass. We don't tolerate that kind of stuff.
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Post by Joe Galt on Mar 11, 2011 9:09:06 GMT -5
I actually like gimmicks that get cultural heel heat such as Hassan and ADR. These gimmicks don`t happen very often and get genuine reactions.
I actually would very much enjoy an African royalty gimmick. Maybe a heel version of Eddie Murphy`s character in Coming to America. Kofi Kingston is from Ghana....hmmmmm
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Post by James McCloud IS John Godot on Mar 11, 2011 9:11:57 GMT -5
I actually like gimmicks that get cultural heel heat such as Hassan and ADR. These gimmicks don`t happen very often and get genuine reactions. I actually would very much enjoy an African royalty gimmick. Maybe a heel version of Eddie Murphy`s character in Coming to America. Ezekial Jackson and Kofi Kingston are from Ghana....hmmmmm Zeke's from Guyana, in South America. Just so ya know.
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Post by Joe Galt on Mar 11, 2011 9:19:05 GMT -5
I actually like gimmicks that get cultural heel heat such as Hassan and ADR. These gimmicks don`t happen very often and get genuine reactions. I actually would very much enjoy an African royalty gimmick. Maybe a heel version of Eddie Murphy`s character in Coming to America. Ezekial Jackson and Kofi Kingston are from Ghana....hmmmmm Zeke's from Guyana, in South America. Just so ya know. Ah, okay.
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