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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 9:27:08 GMT -5
They both have the same finisher, although Miz's is more effective.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 9:33:02 GMT -5
The frat boy who crapped himself scared by Coral on the Real World is now the WWE champion. That says it all.
Seriously, I can't believe anyone would view him as a main eventer. Nothing about him is main event quality. At least LOOK like you can win in a real fight. Say what you want about Cena, Taker, roided up HHH (not the 1995 version), etc, they at least look the part. Miz is the opposite of what I would consider a main eventer. At least Jeff Hardy, who is a smaller guy, has the charisma of a top star. Miz is not completely devoid of talent, but he does not look like or carry himself as a star. He looks like a frat boy with a toy belt on his shoulder.
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Snowman
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Snowman on Apr 4, 2011 9:37:58 GMT -5
I just kinna see him as a soild midcard guy who the creative team has forced down our throats as a main eventer, a WrestleMania main eventer. There is just something about him that reads "non WrestleMania main event quality." His recent push reminds me of when WCW was pushing Jeff Jarrett to the moon, even though he was never going to be a top draw. He was not pushed down out throats at all. Quite the opposite, he was a mid card guy who worked his balls off to get over with the crowd and earn his place in the main event.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Apr 4, 2011 9:40:33 GMT -5
I just kinna see him as a soild midcard guy who the creative team has forced down our throats as a main eventer, a WrestleMania main eventer. There is just something about him that reads "non WrestleMania main event quality." His recent push reminds me of when WCW was pushing Jeff Jarrett to the moon, even though he was never going to be a top draw. He was not pushed down out throats at all. Quite the opposite, he was a mid card guy who worked his balls off to get over with the crowd and earn his place in the main event. When did he get over with the crowd? His reactions are tepid atbest and only increase in sound and level when he's being associated with someone else who IS over. He didn't work his butt off any more than any other wrestler.
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Snowman
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Snowman on Apr 4, 2011 9:44:59 GMT -5
He was not pushed down out throats at all. Quite the opposite, he was a mid card guy who worked his balls off to get over with the crowd and earn his place in the main event. When did he get over with the crowd? His reactions are tepid atbest and only increase in sound and level when he's being associated with someone else who IS over. He didn't work his butt off any more than any other wrestler. I like your avatar. Are you a Klaxons fan?
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Apr 4, 2011 9:48:58 GMT -5
When did he get over with the crowd? His reactions are tepid atbest and only increase in sound and level when he's being associated with someone else who IS over. He didn't work his butt off any more than any other wrestler. I like your avatar. Are you a Klaxons fan? I don't know what klaxons are lol, blame it on my age. I just thought the idea of a cat in an astronaut outfit was hysterical
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Apr 4, 2011 10:43:27 GMT -5
That is bs. Miz was pegged by the office for a long time. Really? Are you in the office? Were you in on meetings during the time where Miz was reading crib-notes off his hand while hosting the Diva Search where higher-ups in the company were saying, "Man, that guy who hosted the pie eating contest last night. He's gonna' be our guy." I'm guessing you weren't, which completely invalidates that little "fact" of yours. IMO everyone on the roster does work hard, and I respect all of them for it, but to say that John Morrison or Dolph Ziggler could be put in Miz's spot and get the same results is laughable. They simply don't have the personality to pull what Miz is doing off. If you put either one of them in a program with Rock and Cena they'd look minor league, Miz held his own and deserves to be commended for it. In short, Miz has that extra "something" that Morrison and Ziggler lack. That little extra piece of personality that makes him stand out during a 2 hour television show. Morrison cutting a promo at times is downright painful, and Ziggler only got to the level he's at right now thanks to his association with the heat magnet that is Vickie Guerrero. Here's the thing people tend to forget, especially people on this board; to be successful in the WWE you don't NEED to be a workhorse in the ring. You need to be able to hold your own in the ring, but more than that you need to be a character people connect with. The WWE isn't Ring of Honor where you need to be able to put on a 45 minute classic with Davey Richards on a random Saturday night in Plymouth, and this isn't 1980's NWA where you're judged on how many 60 minute Broadways you can do in one month's time. You can be the greatest wrestler in the world, but if you can't connect with the audience in promos, and entertain the casual fan with your personality outside of the ring, you're not going to go anywhere in that company. Hell, if success in the WWE was based solely on workrate, Primo and Chavo Guerrero would be main eventing PPV's all next year. If you think Miz is an office picked champion that fans don't want to see you're a flippin' idiot. He won fans over with his mic-work, and garners a reaction everywhere he goes. The fans are what made Miz a star. They could have sh!t on him, but they didn't. They connected with him and he ran with it, bringing himself to the next level. I reiterate my previous statement; to be successful in 2011 WWE you don't need to be a workhorse inside the ring. You need to be a personality that connects with the fans first, and able to hold your own inside the ring second. End of story. No, i'm not from the office, but it doesn't take a blind man to see that the WWE has had bigger plans for this guy. He was abysmal on the mic when he started, but at what point did they take him off tv or get a mic out of his hands? Oh, they didn't. So they put him as a manager of a group of hot women and he treats them bad as to get heel heat and give him more mic time... gee, no one else could fill THAT role... but he can't break out behind guys like CM Punk and Morrison on ECW as a singles wrestler. Then he gets teamed up with a better worker in Morrison, the only time he was consistently in watchable matches, and they beat everyone. Tag champs, more interview time. They get a little internet show, and Miz mostly played the straight man to morrison's character (but... but morrison doesn't have charisma like the miz ) They break up and Miz goes over everyone in the midcard in one-sided feuds. Gets the u.s. title and doesn't defend it. Gets the tag titles because Jericho was leaving. Gets on all 3 shows. Has a good match with Daniel bryan and Cena (better workers than the Miz) and gets MITB. Wins the belt and is put up against Cena, who is a heat magnet to fans who hate him (ABC- Anybody but Cena) and cheered and loved by his fanbase. So at what point is he the fan's choice and not the office's choice? You can sell the match with the talk, but if you can't make it pay off in ring, than your product suffers. What has hurt him and what is the undeniable factor, the reason that he's a third wheel to Cena and the Rock is that he can not deliver in ring when it matters most on the level of the Rock or Cena. If he could, last night he would have had his wrestlemania moment, instead of the Rock standing tall at the end of the ppv. The WWE has done everything to hide the Miz's weaknesses in the ring and tell everyone that he's great. Even Triple H, who I did not believe in when he made his rise to the top, had the in ring work to back up his talk and make him look like he belonged. Miz does not have that. "End of story".
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Snowman
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Snowman on Apr 4, 2011 11:02:28 GMT -5
I like your avatar. Are you a Klaxons fan? I don't know what klaxons are lol, blame it on my age. I just thought the idea of a cat in an astronaut outfit was hysterical It's true a cat in an astronaut outfit is pretty hysterical The klaxons are are an English band who used a similar image on an album cover:
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Post by jadison on Apr 4, 2011 11:11:14 GMT -5
The fact that the Miz is considered by many to be "solid" in the ring is a sad state of affairs. Unless, being solid is now the same as on the low-end of mediocrity. He can execute some things, but overall he's just painful to watch, with his awkward punch/stalk/punch/stalk/kick/stalk/chinlock style. I don't care how aggressive he's become, the guy isn't a good worker at all. His lack of size and lack of skillset make him unworthy of being the WWE champ.
It sucks though because his character is great and he can cut a good promo.
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Post by Emilio Estevez on Apr 4, 2011 11:20:40 GMT -5
No, i'm not from the office, That's all I needed to read from you, because after that it's all opinions which mean nothing. You've got no facts, just heresay. Your other ramblings about Miz's career is just grammatically incorrect nonsense. So what is your definition of "paying off in the ring". Do you want him to work a 60 minute ROH-style broadway on Raw? The WWE product doesn't need for you to be a Dynamite Kid in the ring every week. He holds his own with everyone he's in there with, which is all he needs to do. Saying anything against that is just hating for the sake of hating. Uh huh. He doesn't have the in-ring work. Sorry, but you're an idiot. He's held his own and put on good matches with pretty much everyone he's been in the ring with over the last year, but just ignore that fact, because it's cool to hate on the Miz. Maybe go back and watch his slew of matches from Mania 26 and on this past year, instead of just spouting off ridiculous, baseless, opinions.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Apr 4, 2011 11:39:01 GMT -5
No, i'm not from the office, That's all I needed to read from you, because after that it's all opinions which mean nothing. You've got no facts, just heresay. Your other ramblings about Miz's career is just grammatically incorrect nonsense. So what is your definition of "paying off in the ring". Do you want him to work a 60 minute ROH-style broadway on Raw? The WWE product doesn't need for you to be a Dynamite Kid in the ring every week. He holds his own with everyone he's in there with, which is all he needs to do. Saying anything against that is just hating for the sake of hating. Uh huh. He doesn't have the in-ring work. Sorry, but you're an idiot. He's held his own and put on good matches with pretty much everyone he's been in the ring with over the last year, but just ignore that fact, because it's cool to hate on the Miz. Maybe go back and watch his slew of matches from Mania 26 and on this past year, instead of just spouting off ridiculous, baseless, opinions. You don't know me and you don't know how long I've been watching and studying wrestling. Yet you want to resort to childish name calling and be disrespectful because I don't share your opinion and don't buy the crap that the Miz is the greatest. Maybe you should grow the hell up and stop trying to talk down to me about some performer that you have a hard on for. I know what I like as far as wrestling is concerned and I have never liked the Miz. Go back in my post history and you'll see that. You want to whine because alot of people don't think he's "awesome" and talk down all negative talk as opinion yet your opinion of him being a hard worker is more of a solid foundation of fact? I gave you examples and you give me steaming horse crap? You want to attack me and accuse me of being a stereotypical "internet fan" because I don't buy into the freakin' Miz? Look, we're done here. You need a time out, because you're getting out of control. We can continue when you decide to discuss things like a mature person, not a troll.
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Jimmy
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Post by Jimmy on Apr 4, 2011 11:40:49 GMT -5
They both have the same finisher, although Miz's is more effective. They're actually not the same move in the technical sense. The SCF is a full nelson facebuster while The Stroke is a reverse Russian Legsweep.
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Post by jadison on Apr 4, 2011 11:42:04 GMT -5
Ok I really don't buy the whole "wut, you want him to work a 60 minute ROH spotfest cuz ur a SMARK?" thing. There's a big leap from that awful main event last night to being Dynamite Kid. Did you watch Punk vs. Orton last night? THATS what a main event looks like.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Apr 4, 2011 14:26:31 GMT -5
If you could combine The Miz's personality/mainstream marketability with Jeff Jarrett's in-ring ability that would be ideal actually. I'm not one of those people who thinks your World Champion has to be someone capable of putting on 5 star matches every night but still, last night was telling to me. I can't remember the last time John Cena had such a boring match on PPV and with a mostly dead crowd to boot. I still think Miz has only ever had 2 real good matches in his career thus far. Exactly. Miz apologists need to stop and realize that people aren't mindlessly hating on the guy. Many people are of the same opinion I am, which is that he's someone who could be a good main-eventer in due time, but it was far too early. He's just not good enough yet. Compare the amount of time Shawn Michaels was in the WWF before being a main-eventer compared to Miz. Michaels spent the better part of a decade working his way up the ladder, so that by the time he got there, he was ready. Miz was given too much too fast.
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Post by 2CSultan on Apr 4, 2011 16:24:47 GMT -5
Ok I really don't buy the whole "wut, you want him to work a 60 minute ROH spotfest cuz ur a SMARK?" thing. There's a big leap from that awful main event last night to being Dynamite Kid. Did you watch Punk vs. Orton last night? THATS what a main event looks like. I'm a Miz fan. He's the main reason I'm into wrestling right now. That said, I can't disagree with a thing you just said. It kinda makes me mad hearing people on radio shows and on boards crap on this match. For the time it was given and its spot on the card it was great.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 16:26:27 GMT -5
I do see him solely as midcard fodder, so he is similar in that regard, but he's not quite as boring as Jarrett, I'll never understand how that guy got a main event push.
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