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Post by dlg3000 on Jun 24, 2011 15:11:16 GMT -5
I understand the big deal about Kelly holding the title, but why is it any worse that the Kat winning the Womens Championship in a mud match or Debra winning it? Neither of them were well-trained wrestlers and they have been in the company for a few years themselves.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jun 24, 2011 15:13:53 GMT -5
I understand the big deal about Kelly holding the title, but why is it any worse that the Kat winning the Womens Championship in a mud match or Debra winning it? Neither of them were well-trained wrestlers and they have been in the company for a few years themselves. Maybe because Kat and Debra winning the title happened over a decade ago. Seriously, why is that relevent? |
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Post by Savage Gambino on Jun 24, 2011 15:26:56 GMT -5
I understand the big deal about Kelly holding the title, but why is it any worse that the Kat winning the Womens Championship in a mud match or Debra winning it? Neither of them were well-trained wrestlers and they have been in the company for a few years themselves. Funny you should say that. Looking at the mural of the Womens'/Divas' Championship, I realized something: Between Debra and The Kat and Harvey Wippleman and getting trashed on WCW, the Womens'/Divas' Championship has seen far worse days than Kelly Kelly. |
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Post by dlg3000 on Jun 24, 2011 15:29:02 GMT -5
I understand the big deal about Kelly holding the title, but why is it any worse that the Kat winning the Womens Championship in a mud match or Debra winning it? Neither of them were well-trained wrestlers and they have been in the company for a few years themselves. Maybe because Kat and Debra winning the title happened over a decade ago. Seriously, why is that relevent? Because Kelly Kelly is actually more competent than the Kat and Debra in terms of in-ring skill when they won those titles. |
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 24, 2011 15:29:30 GMT -5
I understand the big deal about Kelly holding the title, but why is it any worse that the Kat winning the Womens Championship in a mud match or Debra winning it? Neither of them were well-trained wrestlers and they have been in the company for a few years themselves. Funny you should say that. Looking at the mural of the Womens'/Divas' Championship, I realized something: Between Debra and The Kat and Harvey Wippleman and getting trashed on WCW, the Womens'/Divas' Championship has seen far worse days than Kelly Kelly. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's not high times for the division, but it's not the worst, either. |
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jun 24, 2011 15:35:51 GMT -5
To me, what's worse than Debra or Kat is...Kelly Kelly has no personality.
Seriously - what is special about her? The only thing that makes her stand out to me is that she looks so utterly generic that I forget who she is every time I see her.
This isn't just about her, either. Who is Eve? What's different about her, except that she dances more often than the other Divas?
I recall when I got into the WWF, late 2000, every woman on the roster had an identity. Chyna was the one who could wrestle men. Ivory was the prude in Right To Censor. Trish Stratus had a distinctive look and was involved in a few angles. Lita had the alt look and hung around the Hardy Boys. Kat was an exhibitionist. Jacqueline was the take-no-crap bruiser who wanted to rip people apart. Molly Holly was Crash Holly's dorky cousin. Tori was about gone by then, but she had an amusing run as Raven's ninja. Debra was a southern belle who mostly hung around with Mick Foley during his awesome run as Commissioner.
At the height of the division, Trish was an absolute star. Victoria was an unhinged psycho. Jazz was the mannish badass. Molly was a bit of a prude but an excellent wrestler.
Now...well, Beth has the "tough girl" thing. Natalya is an heir to the Hart family. AJ has her peppy underdog geek thing going. Tamina is carving out a niche as a badass. The rest...? The Bellas are arrogant heel twins - not bad, but not a terribly distinctive character hook. Gail Kim and Melina have lost the persona they had. I cannot name a single personality trait for any other Diva on the roster. Aside from the ones I mentioned, there is a sea of Eve, Rosa, Kaitlyn (I hear she was more interesting on NXT, but WWE's not letting her develop that on TV), Kelly Kelly, and who knows who else.
Simply put - far too many of these women do not have gimmicks. They're all attractive and styled the same way, with the wonderful exceptions of AJ, Tamina, Natalya, and Beth. If Kelly Kelly is more popular and more mainstream, it's because she is the utter distillation of the division's generic-ness.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jun 24, 2011 15:46:19 GMT -5
Maybe because Kat and Debra winning the title happened over a decade ago. Seriously, why is that relevent? Because Kelly Kelly is actually more competent than the Kat and Debra in terms of in-ring skill when they won those titles. So somebody at some point was worse than her. I still fail to see what that has to do with Kelly Kelly winning the Divas title 2011. |
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Jun 24, 2011 16:01:49 GMT -5
Just for posterity, I can't help but notice that K2 and Eve are consistently put on the same scale, when, quite frankly, they aren't.
1. Kelly has made it her personal mantra that people don't want to see Divas wrestle, and as such, has essentially distilled her moveset into ass slap, ass rub, "face smash" thing and bulldog. Eve has consistently improved in the ring since coming to the WWE some two-odd years ago.
2. Eve hasn't been in a consistent storyline or anything since being in the WWE, or at least non one notable enough for me to remember (Dancing with R-Truth? "Managing" Cryme Time?); meanwhile Kelly was the stripper who would later join the Extreme Expose, and has been consistently across from some sort of notable name (Knox, Punk, Miz, Kane, Orton, McIntyre, Vickie, and from the looks of it, the focal point of the Kharma storyline), even if it's through being shoehorned into meaningless, dead end storylines.
3. There's also the potential factor. Considering she won a Diva Search, Eve has, at the least, the possibility of being able to connect with the audience if given a chance. There is also her Gracie training, which could give her an attractive gimmick, although we know how unCreative shies at the name of "the g-word," especially having them in the "smile and point" division. At the very least, giving her one consistent goddamned finisher for longer than a few months would give her character something resembling stability. Kelly doesn't really want to improve, so her only potential is to get more "pretty"; yet because she has "da look," whatever that is, she's pretty much been one of the golden girls of the writers since ECW; admittedly, I'm surprised myself that she's just now become champion when they could have easily hotshotted it onto her during her "feud" with LayCool.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't exactly see how they compare, when they're completely booked differently. I know it's fun to pick on Eve, but the two aren't even close as far as how they're treated by the writers.
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Post by Citizen Zero on Jun 24, 2011 16:37:22 GMT -5
WWE will never take women's wrestling seriously until there's a dramatic change in who's in charge backstage.
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Post by FailedGimmick on Jun 24, 2011 16:41:15 GMT -5
People say the Divas Championship has no prestige, but when you look at the old Woman's Championship, is there really that much prestige in a title that has been defunct a lot longer that it was active?
How do you think Moolah held the title for nearly 30 years? Multi-Year long reigns were how things were done back then, but never that long.
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Post by Shy Guy on Jun 24, 2011 16:55:16 GMT -5
this whole thing with kelly not wanting to improve (i saw the interview too) is probably because she doesn't *have* to improve. its been known that not even the agents care about the diva's and that they have to put their own matches together. what's the point in trying to improve when the young fans aren't going to notice and the agents don't even care?
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Post by noleafclover1980 on Jun 24, 2011 16:55:31 GMT -5
At least they put it on someone who's over, she got a pretty clear majority of the vote there, and for whatever reasons, the crowds love her. I don't get the knocking as far as "Oh, she looks like a generic blonde". So what? She's a beautiful girl, who seems to at least be having a lot of fun out there. The thing about the divas wrestling is basically what she had beat into her head from day 1 I assume, and to be fair... she's more right then wrong. The average WWE fan doesn't really give a damn if the divas can't out on wrestling clinics as long as they look pretty. When was the last time they pushed a woman hard based on pure ability? (Not counting Kharma, that got killed before it had a chance to go anywhere). The pretty faces are generally the ones who get over more and stay at the top of the division.
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Post by Krimzon on Jun 24, 2011 16:57:59 GMT -5
"She’s just a pretty face." "She doesn’t have what it takes." "She’s just a model. She’ll never make it in WWE."
Yep. Sounds about right. Aside from the "making it in the WWE" thing, that about sums her up.
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Post by JACK on Jun 24, 2011 17:12:52 GMT -5
I agree with Wolf Hurricane. I seriously don't see the comparison between Eve and Kelly. Even the way they represent the company is totally different. Both say they want to be more than just a pretty face and only one actually shows it in the ring...and it sure as hell isn't the blonde who does ass slaps and the stinkface.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 17:26:07 GMT -5
Meh. Ever-since Kneelift posted that story about when she met Kelly I've been blah on her(Kelly).
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Jun 24, 2011 17:52:31 GMT -5
I'm new to this thread, so I never heard of this Kneelift/Barbie meeting. After reading it, following a fairly short dig, all I can say is... ugh. Kelly was a real asshole for that, for real. Someone comes up to you, a fan at that, the first thing you ask them is NOT why do they watch wrestling. You be glad that you have one more fan and talk to them; if for whatever reason you can't, then tell them you don't have time or something. Never put down the people who got you where you are, especially when this isn't some stalker or paparrazo or psycho- just a regular average fan.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 18:02:21 GMT -5
She’s been consistently over for the past 5 years. Considering the diva division has hit an all-time low these past 2-3 years in terms of fan interest I’m actually stunned it took them this long to give her the title.
Seriously, there have been other divas who people didn’t care about (at all) given title reigns so I don’t see the problem with them finally putting the title on their most popular girl for a while.
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Post by Magician under the moonlight on Jun 24, 2011 18:08:57 GMT -5
I understand the big deal about Kelly holding the title, but why is it any worse that the Kat winning the Womens Championship in a mud match or Debra winning it? Neither of them were well-trained wrestlers and they have been in the company for a few years themselves. The KAt actually won the title in a bra and panties pool match. hot! |
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jun 24, 2011 18:09:29 GMT -5
Give Kelly a better opponent than Layla or the Bellas and she'll put on a better match. Not a 5 star classic, but at least passable in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 18:10:31 GMT -5
i don't see what the big deal is, honestly. she's been over the moment she was on tv (and couldn't undo her bra) and as the wwe moved towards PG, she fit the mold perfectly. young guys see her as a pretty girl who wears hot wrestling attire, and girls see her as this bubbly blond that they could probably be friends with because of how happy she gets when she hears the crowd. she's more fit to be diva's champion than eve ever was Kelly^2 is great |
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