Tony Stark
Bubba Ho-Tep
I'm totally not Iron Man ?_?
Posts: 587
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Post by Tony Stark on Jun 24, 2011 18:12:12 GMT -5
As far as K2 winning the belt goes, I don't see what's so bad about it. She's over, and sure she's not SDR or Lita in the ring, but she does enough to string a match together. I've seen the majority of this board crap on diva's wrestling, so why the sudden interest? If you don't like, don't feel the need to crap on every aspect. It's like the ponies thing. Just avoid it.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Jun 24, 2011 18:13:57 GMT -5
I agree with Wolf Hurricane. I seriously don't see the comparison between Eve and Kelly. Even the way they represent the company is totally different. Both say they want to be more than just a pretty face and only one actually shows it in the ring...and it sure as hell isn't the blonde who does ass slaps and the stinkface. Actually, last year (and I'll go as far as to say earlier THIS year), K2 and Eve had about the same number of offensive moves; in fact, dare I say, Kelly may have had more moves. And in that case, with similar movesets and similar mic skills (or lack thereof), the contest comes down to fan favorability: Kelly literally broke the gauge with votes for her, and Eve Torres gets the kind of pops that would give Rob Conway a run for his money (except without, you know, the talent or potential of Rob Conway). Now I have no doubt that her moveset has gone from 'meh' to downright pathetic, but I don't see why we should pretend that Eve and K2 should be rated so far differently when they're about equal in terms of talent (on the full scale, not just counting the last couple of months).
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Post by JACK on Jun 24, 2011 18:34:21 GMT -5
I've never doubted shes more over than Eve ok. IMO They are not "equal in terms of talent" as you say, Eve's move set is better than Kelly's when she won her 1st title Eve changed up her moves every week (which everyone was bitching about btw) shes the better athlete and comes off less awkward in the ring.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jun 24, 2011 18:37:36 GMT -5
As far as K2 winning the belt goes, I don't see what's so bad about it. She's over, and sure she's not SDR or Lita in the ring, but she does enough to string a match together. I've seen the majority of this board crap on diva's wrestling, so why the sudden interest? If you don't like, don't feel the need to crap on every aspect. It's like the ponies thing. Just avoid it. The people who crap on this and those who crap on the Divas wrestling in general are NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. Why do people fail to grasp this? And besides, I really am getting sick of the fact that you can't vent without someone telling you to stop hating. Though I do find it ironic that the man who started the "Anti-Ryder Revolution" tell other people not to crap on things they don't like and to just avoid them.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Jun 24, 2011 18:57:35 GMT -5
Give Kelly a better opponent than Layla or the Bellas and she'll put on a better match. Not a 5 star classic, but at least passable in my opinion. Wait, wut? Surely you're not saying Layla and the Bellas are dragging Barbie down, because I'm sure her opponents aren't what's keeping her from putting on clinics. If you mean she needs opponents that she can lean on and can make her look good, I agree. But she isn't exactly a fountain of talent herself. I agree with Wolf Hurricane. I seriously don't see the comparison between Eve and Kelly. Even the way they represent the company is totally different. Both say they want to be more than just a pretty face and only one actually shows it in the ring...and it sure as hell isn't the blonde who does ass slaps and the stinkface. Actually, last year (and I'll go as far as to say earlier THIS year), K2 and Eve had about the same number of offensive moves; in fact, dare I say, Kelly may have had more moves. And in that case, with similar movesets and similar mic skills (or lack thereof), the contest comes down to fan favorability: Kelly literally broke the gauge with votes for her, and Eve Torres gets the kind of pops that would give Rob Conway a run for his money (except without, you know, the talent or potential of Rob Conway). Now I have no doubt that her moveset has gone from 'meh' to downright pathetic, but I don't see why we should pretend that Eve and K2 should be rated so far differently when they're about equal in terms of talent (on the full scale, not just counting the last couple of months). 1. Kelly's been a featured diva since her debut; I had to Google Eve to remember which Diva Search she won, she's been so neglected. 2. Kelly's hasn't improved much since her in-ring debut; Eve has had more finishers than Kelly's had moves. 3. Kelly's said she doesn't want to improve; Eve has all the tools to stand out, but misManagement won't even open the box. They don't compare, period. You don't know what you're talking about.
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And_5400
Trap-Jaw
Congratulations......Does a bus run through here?
Posts: 490
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Post by And_5400 on Jun 24, 2011 19:28:01 GMT -5
I'll never ever respect her for anything she does in the ring. She just can't wrestle. She does what 5 moves 1. K2 fameasser 2. Screaming headscissors 3. Handspring elbow (If a fat midget like Snooki can do it why should I be impressed) 4. Stink Face (If a fat samoan can do it why should I be impressed 5. Hurricanrana And that interview that someone brought up about her opinion of womens wrestling only makes me respect her less. I don't respect her ring work and I don't respect her.
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PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,609
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Post by PKO on Jun 24, 2011 19:39:08 GMT -5
To weight in on the Eve VS Kelly comparison, I'd say Eve is a much better all-rounder than Kelly. She is better on the mic in that she can emote human emotions (which Kelly can not) and her ring-work is generally pretty decent (which Kelly's is not). Kelly has benefited from steady pushing over the years, and the WWE have given fans reasons to like Kelly. Eve has suffered from inconsistent pushing (her first title reign) and downright ridiculous pushing (her second title reign). If pushed right, Eve could be a real asset to WWE, and put on some decent matches. I'll never ever respect her for anything she does in the ring. She just can't wrestle. She does what 5 moves 1. K2 fameasser 2. Screaming headscissors 3. Handspring elbow (If a fat midget like Snooki can do it why should I be impressed) 4. Stink Face (If a fat samoan can do it why should I be impressed 5. Hurricanrana And that interview that someone brought up about her opinion of womens wrestling only makes me respect her less. I don't respect her ring work and I don't respect her. Well, get rid of the "Handspring Elbow" and replace it with "bash face on floor", and get ring of "Hurricanrana" and replace it with "spank ass" and you've got her current moveset.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jun 24, 2011 19:41:10 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with Kelly winning the Divas title. It's not like it was a crime against humanity with her winning Monday.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jun 24, 2011 20:23:04 GMT -5
Give Kelly a better opponent than Layla or the Bellas and she'll put on a better match. Not a 5 star classic, but at least passable in my opinion. Wait, wut? Surely you're not saying Layla and the Bellas are dragging Barbie down, because I'm sure her opponents aren't what's keeping her from putting on clinics. If you mean she needs opponents that she can lean on and can make her look good, I agree. But she isn't exactly a fountain of talent herself. . No I mean that just about anyone who wrestles the Bellas or Layla isn't going to look good since neither wrestle good matches on their own. In the last year and a half, Kelly's practically faced no one outside of McCool, Layla, and the Bellas. McCool she did alright with in my book, but the other 3 weren't that great. She's not the best wrestler, but to say she's the worst ever is just ignorance.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 24, 2011 20:30:20 GMT -5
Honestly the Diva's title has no real prestige to begin with so it would be hard to upset about this. I guess if Kelly Kelly is popular enough, which last Monday seemed to indicate, then I guess they might as well let her hold the belt. Though really it doesn't make a difference one way or the other if she has a reign with it or not. Pretty much. The belt's meaningless; might as well give her a run with it.
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Post by AnActualBear on Jun 24, 2011 20:32:47 GMT -5
I honestly have only cared about the divas division twice:
1. In 2003 when they had WRESTLERS WRESTLING as opposed to divas spanking each other.
2. Kharma's debut up until she got pregnant and left.
So they might as well put the belt on someone who is over rather than leaving it on Brie f***ing Bella. At least Kelly actually gets some sort of reaction as opposed to "..............." that the Bellas get.
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Post by Hurbster on Jun 24, 2011 20:38:31 GMT -5
I'm sorry, was the womens division ever supposed to be taken seriously ?
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,080
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 24, 2011 20:43:02 GMT -5
Honestly the Diva's title has no real prestige to begin with so it would be hard to upset about this. I guess if Kelly Kelly is popular enough, which last Monday seemed to indicate, then I guess they might as well let her hold the belt. Though really it doesn't make a difference one way or the other if she has a reign with it or not. Pretty much. The belt's meaningless; might as well give her a run with it. Belts are only props to further stories and promote wrestlers, so if it makes Kelly into something other than the choke queen who never beats the heels when it counts, good for her, but we'll see. I don't really care much for Kelly Kelly, but she has fans and seems to give a damn, so maybe she'll become something good yet. It wasn't forever ago that Trish was a doofus in the ring.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jun 24, 2011 21:02:16 GMT -5
Just for posterity, I can't help but notice that K2 and Eve are consistently put on the same scale, when, quite frankly, they aren't. 1. Kelly has made it her personal mantra that people don't want to see Divas wrestle, and as such, has essentially distilled her moveset into ass slap, ass rub, "face smash" thing and bulldog. Eve has consistently improved in the ring since coming to the WWE some two-odd years ago. 2. Eve hasn't been in a consistent storyline or anything since being in the WWE, or at least non one notable enough for me to remember (Dancing with R-Truth? "Managing" Cryme Time?); meanwhile Kelly was the stripper who would later join the Extreme Expose, and has been consistently across from some sort of notable name (Knox, Punk, Miz, Kane, Orton, McIntyre, Vickie, and from the looks of it, the focal point of the Kharma storyline), even if it's through being shoehorned into meaningless, dead end storylines. 3. There's also the potential factor. Considering she won a Diva Search, Eve has, at the least, the possibility of being able to connect with the audience if given a chance. There is also her Gracie training, which could give her an attractive gimmick, although we know how unCreative shies at the name of "the g-word," especially having them in the "smile and point" division. At the very least, giving her one consistent goddamned finisher for longer than a few months would give her character something resembling stability. Kelly doesn't really want to improve, so her only potential is to get more "pretty"; yet because she has "da look," whatever that is, she's pretty much been one of the golden girls of the writers since ECW; admittedly, I'm surprised myself that she's just now become champion when they could have easily hotshotted it onto her during her "feud" with LayCool. Maybe it's just me, but I don't exactly see how they compare, when they're completely booked differently. I know it's fun to pick on Eve, but the two aren't even close as far as how they're treated by the writers. Kelly still regularly does her head scissors thing and also regularly does a triangle choke on the ropes
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jun 24, 2011 21:08:44 GMT -5
As far as K2 winning the belt goes, I don't see what's so bad about it. She's over, and sure she's not SDR or Lita in the ring, but she does enough to string a match together. I've seen the majority of this board crap on diva's wrestling, so why the sudden interest? If you don't like, don't feel the need to crap on every aspect. It's like the ponies thing. Just avoid it. The people who crap on this and those who crap on the Divas wrestling in general are NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. Why do people fail to grasp this? And besides, I really am getting sick of the fact that you can't vent without someone telling you to stop hating. Though I do find it ironic that the man who started the "Anti-Ryder Revolution" tell other people not to crap on things they don't like and to just avoid them. because the people who dislike untrained women wrestling never get in the faces of the people who dislike women wrestling. There's a reason why the IWC has a hive mind repuation and it's because most people spend their time complaining about the stuff they don't like, and rarely defend what they do like against the people who don't. A shouting match of "Women's wrestling rules/Women's wrestling sucks" might get annoying, it might get people trying to get the participants banned, but things like it'd go a long way to convincing people there's a variety on opinions online.
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Post by JACK on Jun 24, 2011 21:17:21 GMT -5
She also regularly runs the ropes like a f***ing idiot.
I can't believe people are actually defending her winning the title. Yet shit on Eve, A. Fox and the Bellas title wins just because their not as over as her?....lol bull shit.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2011 21:18:28 GMT -5
I don't get the idea that Eve has gotten no help. They made her look pretty damn good in the lead up to winning the Divas title in 2010.
March 1: Wins 6-Way match March 8: Makes new Divas champion and #1 heel Maryse tap out quickly to a cross armbreaker March 15: Along with Gail Kim, saves Kelly and beats down Maryse March 28: Babyfaces enter to her music at WM even with Beth Phoenix and Mickie James on the team March 29: Pins Divas champion Maryse in about 20 seconds
April 5: Wins battle royal April 12: Wins Divas title in under 3 minutes
If anything, she was pushed too hard, going from doing nothing of note to owning the top heel multiple times and taking the Divas title in the span of 6 weeks.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 24, 2011 21:20:16 GMT -5
Pretty much. The belt's meaningless; might as well give her a run with it. Belts are only props to further stories and promote wrestlers, so if it makes Kelly into something other than the choke queen who never beats the heels when it counts, good for her, but we'll see. I don't really care much for Kelly Kelly, but she has fans and seems to give a damn, so maybe she'll become something good yet. It wasn't forever ago that Trish was a doofus in the ring. I can concur with the first point, I probably should've stated it better, i.e. they've never made the women's/diva's title mean much of anything; it's been pretty meaningless throughout most of its history ergo even though Kelly Kelly isn't what one would call a good wrestler, she's just as valid an option as anyone at the moment.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 24, 2011 21:22:15 GMT -5
I don't get the idea that Eve has gotten no help. They made her look pretty damn good in the lead up to winning the Divas title in 2010. March 1: Wins 6-Way match March 8: Makes new Divas champion and #1 heel Maryse tap out quickly to a cross armbreaker March 15: Along with Gail Kim, saves Kelly and beats down Maryse March 28: Babyfaces enter to her music at WM even with Beth Phoenix and Mickie James on the team March 29: Pins Divas champion Maryse in about 20 seconds April 5: Wins battle royal April 12: Wins Divas title in under 3 minutes If anything, she was pushed too hard, going from doing nothing of note to owning the top heel multiple times and taking the Divas title in the span of 6 weeks. They tried to push Eve pretty damn hard as the face of the divison; for whatever reason most of the crowd just doesn't care one way or another for her. She's decent but the fact that Kelly gets more of a reaction by a pretty good margin is fairly inarguable; and thus makes sense why they've shifted focus.
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Jun 24, 2011 22:02:24 GMT -5
I hate Kelly and this is a travesty.
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