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Post by dlg3000 on Jul 24, 2011 8:15:48 GMT -5
Where would you place Shawn Michaels amongst the greatest of all time? Many say Ric Flair is the greatest of all-time, but is Shawn Michaels even better than him in certain aspects? How about Terry Funk, Dynamite Kid, Undertaker, or Bret Hart? How would he stack up compared to those four guys? I ask these questions because John Cena last week mentioned Shawn Michaels being mentioned as the greatest yet he is known for the Montreal incident. This isn't to say that he is totally correct, but has Montreal tainted his legacy, even slightly in your opinion? I welcome your opinions as to whether he is the greatest or one of the greatest. Is he in the top 5? How influential is he?
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babyfootball
Don Corleone
At least as good as Ron Garvin!
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Post by babyfootball on Jul 24, 2011 8:24:45 GMT -5
He's not in the top 5, though he's probably in that little category just outside of the top 5. He's probably a top 10er, he had it all, the only thing he didn't have was self-control in the 90s, which, in all likelihood kept him from being THE star of the 90s, rather than just one of the top stars of the 90s. His return run in the 2000s is actually what puts him over the top, because he was so good for such a period of time. He was actually (and who would've believed this in say, 1996?) a stabilizing presence on the roster in his post-injury run, able to fill-in a main event spot at any time (see Wrestlemania vs Cena), and having great feuds and matches with many different members of the roster.
I'd put HBK behind Flair, Hogan, Austin and Rock, but then it gets debatable. Are we just talking post-Rock 'n' Wrestling? If not, then itgets a little dicier, because where does HBK fall amongst Bruno, Backlund and the like?
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lovingway
El Dandy
Crimson and Clover
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Post by lovingway on Jul 24, 2011 8:37:52 GMT -5
Honestly his second run was similar to Bret Hart's run as World Champ. He was reliable, consistent and loyal. It is a shame he never was a main eventer during one of the company's peak times (the beginning of the attitude era was the closest he got). Had he been in there he would have been way higher.
I would say he might be around 7 or 8 behind Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, Triple H, Superstar Graham, and perhaps Bruno. You add in others like Rocca and Gorgeous George then he could fall farther. But I would put him a head of Bret due to the numbers of years as a top draw
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Post by Piccolo on Jul 24, 2011 8:46:17 GMT -5
Depends on the criteria, as always. If your criteria include "Was a crossover star who made them buckets of money", he's gonna be in the tier just below the guys who did that stuff. If your criteria is more weighted toward being a great professional wrestler, I think he's in the top tier. If your criteria includes "People als47 has never seen wrestle because they were before her time," I have no idea where he falls.
It's gonna be different for everybody, depending on what matters to them when making the GOAT categories.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Jul 24, 2011 8:47:53 GMT -5
It annoys me when he keeps being mentioned as the 'greatest'. Don't get me wrong he was great, but he isn't close to Austin, Rock or Hogan.
HBK may just crack the top 5, but that still does not make the best.
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Post by stinger on Jul 24, 2011 9:09:46 GMT -5
It depends on what you're looking for. If you are looking for in-ring performers, they don't get better than HBK. Rock, Hogan, and Austin are nothing IN THE RING compared to HBK. I understand that they were more popular and made more money for WWE, I'm just talking about ring work here.
If you are one of those people who says workrate doesn't matter and it only matters how much you draw, well then he's behind Hogan, Austin, and Rock.
Personally, I look for a guy who is great in the ring, great on the mic, and has charisma and personality. In my opinion, HBK had it all. There was not an area where he was deficient when it came to his on-air persona (backstage politics aside.) As huge as Hogan, Rock, and Austin were, their ring work was nothing special, in my opinion. In my opinion, the top 2 guys who excelled at every aspect in wrestling are HBK and Flair, and those two really exist in a plane higher than everyone else for me.
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Post by sychojustice on Jul 24, 2011 9:33:35 GMT -5
I would say he would fall some where around 8-10.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2011 9:42:17 GMT -5
If you wanted someone who no matter what would give you an interesting segment, promo, and match for a feud... there was no one better than HBK in my books for pure entertainment value and he is my favourite wrestler
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theshowstoppa
Don Corleone
This is why I like Brooke.
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Post by theshowstoppa on Jul 24, 2011 9:46:05 GMT -5
If you wanted someone who no matter what would give you an interesting segment, promo, and match for a feud... there was no one better than HBK in my books for pure entertainment value and he is my favourite wrestler This is pretty much my thoughts, and I think he is the best ever, plain and simple. |
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NOwave
Don Corleone
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Post by NOwave on Jul 24, 2011 10:01:20 GMT -5
Whenever these arguments start up, I've gone with Hogan and Flair as numbers 1 and 1a. Austin, Andre, Randy Savage as the rest of the top five. Bret Hart, Sting, Undertaker, Terry Funk, Shawn Micheals in my second five. Close: Triple H, Dusty Rhodes, Harley Race and others I can't remember right now
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2011 10:07:08 GMT -5
He's not in the "household name" category like Hogan, Austin, Rock, Andre, and maybe Savage.
However, he is in the "best wrestlers of all time" category with Bret and Flair.
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Post by baresolid on Jul 24, 2011 10:31:27 GMT -5
Kurt Angled is the greatest wrestler of all time. It's just a shame that he's wasted five years in TNA. His WWE run is the perfect career, though.
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Post by baresolid on Jul 24, 2011 10:34:17 GMT -5
As for HBK, he may be the greatest in ring wrestler of all time but his promos are simply not on the same level as Flair,HHH, Rock, Austin and many others.
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DavidArquette
Don Corleone
The actor formerly known as avanteproject
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Post by DavidArquette on Jul 24, 2011 10:36:17 GMT -5
Probably the greatest of all time.
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kunswwfmark
Hank Scorpio
Nobody beats Mr. Perfect. Nobody!
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Post by kunswwfmark on Jul 24, 2011 10:49:56 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels is the greatest "WWE Superstar" of all time.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jul 24, 2011 11:00:06 GMT -5
He always gets name dropped by other wrestlers as an influence when they were younger. Like people have said he wasn't a household name in terms of Rock/Hogan fame but you could probably call him "your favourite wrestler's favourite wrestler". My favourite is HBK though so that just confuses matters!
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Jul 24, 2011 11:08:08 GMT -5
Top 20 for me.
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Post by habanos on Jul 24, 2011 11:15:59 GMT -5
Shawn could not draw on his own if his life depended on it.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Jul 24, 2011 11:20:40 GMT -5
'Greatest of All-Time' is very subjective.
I think those who really follow wrestling would acknowledge Shawn as one of the greatest in-ring performers who had a lot of charisma and was an incredible showman. He had a nice first act of his career teaming with Marty Jannetty in AWA and WWF. He had a great second act as a singles star in WWF in the 1990s. His final act, his work in the 2000s, solidified him as one of the all-time greats and gave him redemption for his behavior behind the scenes in the 1990s.
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Post by Back to being Cenanuff on Jul 24, 2011 11:25:39 GMT -5
Something he has on Ric Flair is leaving the business while he was stll good. Ric hasn't been good in years, and I thought his "retirement" match at Mania was a long time coming. I think he's just tarnishing his legacy by continuing to compete. Shawn was one of those guys that you could rely on him putting out a good to great performance every time he was in the ring. That puts him in the top 10 in my book, which changes every so often. If Hogan does the rumored match with Sting, he'll no longer be in my top 10.
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