how many top guys can they afford losing?

[Madagascar Fred]

after Batista, Jericho, Taker, HHH & Edge not competing any longer, can they afford losing any more top stars (you know the rumours about Rey & Cena being banged up badly)?

since lots of promising midcarders are going nowhere near the top of the card (Ziggler, Kofi, Swagger, McIntyre), and the newly-built main eventers aren't that successful (Christian, Sheamus, Alberto), it seems to me the brand extension might come to an end

what you think?

[Mozenrath]

It's a little early to say some of these guys aren't successful, as they haven't been given the ball for more than a cup of coffee. I'd say Sheamus has been a bonafide success, and given they've let him have the belt multiple times, they'd probably agree. Others have yet to be truly tested.

They could afford to lose more guys, but it would sting. That said, WWE isn't a one man show, and like they said on Raw, no one man is bigger than the company. It'd survive, it'd just be lean times.

[Pasadena Sandwich]

Smackdown wrestlers have been appearing on RAW every now and again, and vice versa. I'ld say that the Brand Extension is gradually becoming null.

[Todd Pettengill]

It hurts not having true Main Event talent there. Look at this past week's Raw tournament. Rey & Miz were the only guys with any established credential, & made it to the finals. Miz was a good Champion, but he's sorta faded from the main event scene. Rey doesn't really need the title, nor do I think he could carry the show. Del Rio has potential to be something special, but like Miz, his momentum's kinda stalled. Everyone else in the tourney are light years from being considered main event. Outside of Cena & Punk, Raw is starving for some star power.

[Deleted]

I'd say that losing all of those guys has already had an effect on the WWE, what with ratings and buyrates being down.

However the only wrestlers I'd say the WWE simply CANNOT afford to lose is Orton or Cena. They're both in their prime, in the main event, selling merchandise like hot cakes and carrying their respective brands.

Mysterio can be replaced, Christian is a solid worker but never been a top draw, Big Show/Kane/Undertaker/Triple H are all run-down and the last 2 rarely ever appear anyways. And the ironic thing about the midcard being booked like meaningless crap is that they could release a bunch of them (like they've been doing for the past 2 years) and barely anyone would bat an eyelid.

[Beartato]

It became so glaringly obvious how little star power they had last episode of RAW. It felt like a tournament for the US title.

[Todd Pettengill]

I agree with this:

Jul 21, 2011 3:52:43 GMT -5 @burngun said:

I'd say that losing all of those guys has already had an effect on the WWE, what with ratings and buyrates being down.

However the only wrestlers I'd say the WWE simply CANNOT afford to lose is Orton or Cena. They're both in their prime, in the main event, selling merchandise like hot cakes and carrying their respective brands.

Mysterio can be replaced, Christian is a solid worker but never been a top draw, Big Show/Kane/Undertaker/Triple H are all run-down and the last 2 rarely ever appear anyways. And the ironic thing about the midcard being booked like meaningless crap is that they could release a bunch of them (like they've been doing for the past 2 years) and barely anyone would bat an eyelid.

And This:

Jul 21, 2011 3:53:01 GMT -5 Beartato said:

It became so glaringly obvious how little star power they had last episode of RAW. It felt like a tournament for the US title.

[manicuno]

Jul 21, 2011 3:49:50 GMT -5 Todd Pettengill said:

It hurts not having true Main Event talent there. Look at this past week's Raw tournament. Rey & Miz were the only guys with any established credential, & made it to the finals. Miz was a good Champion, but he's sorta faded from the main event scene. Rey doesn't really need the title, nor do I think he could carry the show. Del Rio has potential to be something special, but like Miz, his momentum's kinda stalled. Everyone else in the tourney are light years from being considered main event. Outside of Cena & Punk, Raw is starving for some star power.

Agreed. When Miz is the most established guy in your championship tournament, you know that your roster is more than a little anemic.

[rnrk supports BLM]

There are only three real "stars" left on the active roster: Cena, Orton, and Rey.

There's no one ready to take Cena's spot if he's forced to take time off. Orton's been groomed for years to be able to step into that spot, but he just doesn't have it and, at this stage in his career, I don't think he'll ever develop it. In an alternate reality with a completely different business model, Rey might be able to do it, but WWE's never really given him the ball in spite of his immense popularity, and they've spent decades hammering home the idea that guys with his height and his style are going to be colorful special attractions rather than headliners in their own right.

If Cena went out, WWE's only short term solution to keep ratings from plummeting would be to drag Triple H and/or Undertaker out of semi-retirement and hope their knees don't crumble into dust.

Replacing Rey would be... well, the prospective Rey replacement has been rather a bust so far, but Rey's secondary enough to the product that WWE could stay afloat without him. Morrison would likely be pushed to step up as the new crowd-pleasing high-flier, and I could see del Rio getting featured increasingly prominently in order to establish him as the major Latino star.

And Orton... honestly, they've a few guys who could step into Orton's shoes right at the moment with minimal fuss: Miz and Punk foremost among them, with Sheamus not far behind. That's not so much a testament to those guys' talents as it is a condemnation of Orton's, however; judging from Smackdown's ratings, Orton simply isn't much of a draw as the secondary brand's top babyface, which is why I'd say many of the other lower-tier main eventers could do just as well in his spot.

[J.O.B. Squad]

Jul 21, 2011 3:53:01 GMT -5 Beartato said:

It became so glaringly obvious how little star power they had last episode of RAW. It felt like a tournament for the US title.

Glad I am not the only one who though this,as soon as I heard who was in it,I went this RAW is a bust,but the ending of it saved it from being completely bad and having Rey and The Miz dominate it didn't hurt as well for me.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

Jul 21, 2011 3:42:25 GMT -5 Pasadena Sandwich said:

Smackdown wrestlers have been appearing on RAW every now and again, and vice versa. I'ld say that the Brand Extension is gradually becoming null.

Only Big Show and the guy he's feuding with at the time have been regularly appearing on both brands.

3 hour RAWs are always cross brand (we had two of them back to back), and the Road to Wrestlemania has always had some cross brand action. When we see Cena regularly appearing on SmackDown, then yeah, I'd say the Brand Extension is going away, but I think it's going to remain as it is.

[Savage Gambino]

Jul 21, 2011 3:49:50 GMT -5 Todd Pettengill said:

It hurts not having true Main Event talent there. Look at this past week's Raw tournament. Rey & Miz were the only guys with any established credential, & made it to the finals. Miz was a good Champion, but he's sorta faded from the main event scene. Rey doesn't really need the title, nor do I think he could carry the show. Del Rio has potential to be something special, but like Miz, his momentum's kinda stalled. Everyone else in the tourney are light years from being considered main event. Outside of Cena & Punk, Raw is starving for some star power.

I'll agree with you on most of your points, but I don't feel like Dolph and Kofi are "lightyears away". Both of them are pretty over with the crowds, both are solid midcarders; I think that if you just give them the ball and let them run with it, they could easily break into the main event. Far as I'm concerned, both of these guys are much more worthy of main event status than was ADR when he won the Rumble or Sheamus when he became #1 Contender (and ultimately beat John Cena) at TLC.

Now A-Ri, I'm still waiting to see if he lands on his feet after the feud with Miz is over.

[Hit Girl]

They've got two irreplacable top guys.

Orton and Cena

Lose either of them, and they are in trouble.

[lewis1711]

How do they expect to create new stars when they clearly aren't willing to give them the ball?
The Miz's title reign was awful - and it was not his fault. It was the fact they couldn't have him go over *anyone* clean, not even Lawler.

They could've turned Christian into something big, but instead they ripped the title from on his next TV appearance, jobbed him to Orton 3 times in a row, and gave him a horrible heel-turn noone bought.

Sheamus is so close to breaking out in a big way I can taste it...but I believe he lost recently to Sin bloody Cara, and he has jobbed to Orton so many times I've lost count.

Then they finally give Punk the ball... only to have him leave or go on hiatus or whatever else. Completely kills his momentum.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - you can't really fault the wrestlers. I don't think you guys would be s***ting all over these people if they were actually given the sort of pushes a Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Triple H or Batista had, and I honestly think that's the only difference between them.

[Ryback on a Pole!]

The WWE have really only got themselves to blame for dropping the ball with so many guys.

Like Sheamus, the guy should really have been in line for a major face push shortly after he lost his second world title.

Instead he goes on a ridiculous losing streak that killed all interest in him until the past two months.

Wade Barrett, after The Nexus feud with Cena he really should have been catapulted as one of the top 3 heels in the company. He was one of the most hated heels on the roster, was having good matches, had main evented a row of PPV's and yet, instead of capitalising on that he's sent to Smackdown and fed to the Big Show and then Ezekiel which has pretty much killed his heat

Christian could have been the next maor face after he won the world title match against ADR. He was hugely over and should have had a title run like his ECW one, where he fights all comers and he's a gutsy fighting champ. Instead, he drops the belt and has a lacklustre heel turn.

Then of course there's Dolph Ziggler getting jobbed out to Edge 10 times running, turning generic (Luckily WWE have turned him back) and then entering yet another boring feud with Kofi that has killed my interest in him.

[avenger]

Jul 21, 2011 4:46:46 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

They've got two irreplacable top guys.

Orton and Cena

Lose either of them, and they are in trouble.

In 1992, they had Hogan,Warrior, Flair & Savage. Hogan disappeared after being implicated in the steroid scandal. Warrior was fired, Flair asked for his release, Savage went into semi-retirement (and barely wrestled in 1993), Sid stropped off, Bulldog was fired, the LOD left. And most of that happened in the space of six months.

By the time Summerslam 93 came round, the only guys on the roster who had evented a PayPerView were DiBiase, Bret, Shawn, Undertaker and Yokozuna. DiBiase was leaving, Bret was never a talker, Shawn was a midcarder whose match with Bret at Survivor Series 92 wasn't supposed to be the main event, Undertaker had a long term back problem and needed a back brace and Yokozuna was morbidly obese.

But they built new stars. They pushed Luger to the moon, they'd just signed Diesel and Ludwig Borga with big plans for them, they had plans for Crush, Doink and Mr Perfect (only for other issues to sidetrack them), Lawler was part time, yet from pretty much out of nowhere became the hottest heel in terms of drawing power (the Bret-Lawler house shows were comfortably outdrawing the Yoko-Luger ones), Razor was established in the upper-midcard, and Owen was starting to get a reaction (leading to his push), even though he was generally only being used as a prop in Bret's feuds.

So yeah, the WWE has had to suddenly build talent up before, and while it wasn't the greatest drawing period in their history, the figures stacked up nicely comared to today.

[avenger]

Jul 21, 2011 5:11:44 GMT -5 Ryback on a Pole! said:

The WWE have really only got themselves to blame for dropping the ball with so many guys.

Like Sheamus, the guy should really have been in line for a major face push shortly after he lost his second world title.

Instead he goes on a ridiculous losing streak that killed all interest in him until the past two months.

Ridiculous losing streak? The only guy beating him was John Morrison, and that was to elevate Morrison into a title fued over the holidays. Sheamus was a two-time champion and had just won King of the Ring, they hardly buried him.

Wade Barrett, after The Nexus feud with Cena he really should have been catapulted as one of the top 3 heels in the company. He was one of the most hated heels on the roster, was having good matches, had main evented a row of PPV's and yet, instead of capitalising on that he's sent to Smackdown and fed to the Big Show and then Ezekiel which has pretty much killed his heat

But this is how Vince has always pushed his major heels - they arrive at the top (most main heels were feuding with Hogan by their second feud, only Perfect had the slow build), and then settle into their natural posiiton. It makes matches fresh at the top and then in the midcard. it's a formula that's always worked for him.

Christian could have been the next maor face after he won the world title match against ADR. He was hugely over and should have had a title run like his ECW one, where he fights all comers and he's a gutsy fighting champ. Instead, he drops the belt and has a lacklustre heel turn.

Lacklustre? Really? This past three months has been some of the best solo stuff of his career.

Then of course there's Dolph Ziggler getting jobbed out to Edge 10 times running, turning generic (Luckily WWE have turned him back) and then entering yet another boring feud with Kofi that has killed my interest in him.

I agree that they could have booked him better, but he's one of the best workers they have, all they need him to do is just wrestle.

[Shaun2k5]

I think Orton is the most bland "star" WWE has ever had. He could easily be replaced by any number of upper-midcard superstars (Looking at Punk, Miz)

[randomranter]

Jul 21, 2011 4:46:46 GMT -5 Hit Girl said:

They've got two irreplacable top guys.

Orton and Cena

Lose either of them, and they are in trouble.

I actually rank Punk above Orton, at least right now. I actually believe, once the Punk/Cena feud is over, they could move Punk into Orton's position on Smackdown, bump Orton down a peg or two, and I think the show would actually be better off.

I'd look forward to Punk/Christian, Punk/Orton, and even Punk/Henry.

I think Rey is also in the "irreplacable" position, especially with Sin Cara's status being questionable right now.

I may be in the minority, but I think Miz is doing just fine in his role. I've had absolutely no problems with his place on the card, his in-ring work, or his promos.

It'll be interesting to see whether or not A-Ri can hold his own now that his feud with Miz seems to largely be over. (which is another testament to Miz's work. He's at the position where working with Miz can get you over because people want to see him get his ass kicked. Which means he's doing his job effectively.)

Kofi was visibly nervous during their first attempt at introducing him to the main event scene. You could just look at him and tell he felt out of place. That, and Kofi just doesn't scream "Main Eventer" to me. He's good for multi-man main events like MITB and the Elimination Chamber where they need someone who's over with the crowd and can deliver good high spots, but I don't think he has that "it" factor to be successful and accepted as a permanent part of the main event scene.

JoMo: See Kofi. He's not as nervous, but his promos absolutely suck.

I could see Del Rio making it if they finally allowed him to actually do something. He's been stuck spinning his wheels in the same "it's my destiny" rut since January and making absolutely no headway. And he needs Ricardo. Ricardo just fills a bit of a void in ADR's character.

[Ryback on a Pole!]

Jul 21, 2011 6:48:11 GMT -5 avenger said:

Ridiculous losing streak? The only guy beating him was John Morrison, and that was to elevate Morrison into a title fued over the holidays. Sheamus was a two-time champion and had just won King of the Ring, they hardly buried him.

Except for when he lost to Evan Bourne in under 30 seconds, lost to Santino and got beat by Mark Henry who at the time was a total jobber.

Not to mention his KotR win which led to him wearing that ridiculous pantomime costume for a few weeks. The whole thing was pointless jobbing of a guy for no apparent reason.

Jul 21, 2011 6:48:11 GMT -5 avenger said:

But this is how Vince has always pushed his major heels - they arrive at the top (most main heels were feuding with Hogan by their second feud, only Perfect had the slow build), and then settle into their natural posiiton. It makes matches fresh at the top and then in the midcard. it's a formula that's always worked for him.

Nobody in a long time has recieved a major push like Barrett right off the bat. He was the most hated guy in the WWE and the WWE should have capitalised on that instead of feeding him to Big Show, Kane and Ezekiel.

Now, he barely gets a reaction at all.

Jul 21, 2011 6:48:11 GMT -5 avenger said:

Lacklustre? Really? This past three months has been some of the best solo stuff of his career.

Yes, lacklustre. Heel Christian is, imo, just boring. His whiny character is dull and by turning heel it's stopped his usually fun moveset. I liked Christian when he was a gutsy, fighting champ like when he held the ECW champ and when he used a fast-paced, flashier moveset.

I will admit, I did like the way he outsmarted Orton though. Hopefully instead of going down the boring cowardly heel route that has been done to death the WWE have him as a smart, crafty heel who outwits his opponents rather than outfights them. Then, I could start to get into his character again.

I agree that they could have booked him better, but he's one of the best workers they have, all they need him to do is just wrestle.

Just like just wrestling helped guys like Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas, Tyson Kidd and countless other excellant wrestlers get over?

Granted, Ziggler is much better on the mic than those but still, if the WWE don't book them right then no ammount of in-ring talent or mic skills is gonna save him.

Like this feud with Kofi. Why should I care when we've seen them feud twice already in a year with each feud being exactly the same? There's nothing different between this feud and the others, just swap the US belt for the IC title.

I was a big Dolph fan when he feuded with Edge but the move to Raw and this feud with Kofi has killed my interest in him and I'm sure it'll be the same with other people too.