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Post by dlg3000 on Jul 21, 2011 7:10:14 GMT -5
How many times have the two wrestled one another? I can only recall once during 1991 when Ric Flair was in the WWE, but have they wrestled one another in WCW? I didn't get to watch much WCW until about 2000, so I need to keep up.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Jul 21, 2011 7:42:16 GMT -5
Flair dropped the WWE belt to Bret at a TV taping in late 1992. They met in WCW at Souled Out in '98. In his book, Bret said he found Flair's style difficult to adjust to.
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Post by dlg3000 on Jul 21, 2011 16:39:20 GMT -5
Interesting, rowdy. Aren't they both safe, technical workers? Why would Bret Hart have a hard time adjusting to Ric Flair's style?
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Post by wrestlinggod13 on Jul 21, 2011 16:55:19 GMT -5
Because Flair only wanted to wrestle his standard formulaic match with him, and he would not cooperate when Bret wanted to mix things up a bit.
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Post by dlg3000 on Jul 21, 2011 17:41:14 GMT -5
Okay, thank you both. Why would anyone say then that Bret only wrestles the same five moves per match?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jul 21, 2011 18:47:22 GMT -5
Okay, thank you both. Why would anyone say then that Bret only wrestles the same five moves per match? Because some people love to run down Bret Hart at every possible opportunity for some reason. If it's not that, he's bitter, never a draw, a sell out for burying the hatchet with the 'e and so on and so forth. |
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Jul 21, 2011 20:25:32 GMT -5
My understanding is that Bret found some of Flair's staples (the floppy bumps in particular) to be unrealistic. I also took it to mean that Bret had problems adjusting to how Flair works. I heard a shoot interview with Ricky Steamboat where he pointed out that he and Flair didn't pre-plan any of their spots from their '89 matches. All they had were the finishes yet both guys felt comfortable enough with each other to go out there and create a match like a great jazz musician interpeting a great song. Steamboat contrasted that to working with Savage who slavishly tried to make every spot precise. I think maybe Bret would have liked to have been able to have done some different stuff with Flair but because of Ric's methodology was unable to do so.
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Post by Free Hat on Jul 22, 2011 1:23:09 GMT -5
And as a result, the two men had no in ring chemistry at all. Their matches were decent enough, but not nearly as good as you would expect from two of the greatest of all time.
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Post by celticjobber on Jul 22, 2011 1:39:58 GMT -5
How many times have the two wrestled one another? I can only recall once during 1991 when Ric Flair was in the WWE, but have they wrestled one another in WCW? I didn't get to watch much WCW until about 2000, so I need to keep up. Ric and Bret had a 60 Minute Iron Man match at the Boston Gardens on Jan. 9, 1993. It was filmed by someone in the audience and is available on Youtube (search for "WWF House Show - Boston - January 9, 1993") |
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Milkman Norm
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jul 23, 2011 11:25:16 GMT -5
The broadway match is one that has spoken on in near-legendary terms for years. I've never seen it but everything I've heard puts in it in the ****3/4 t0 ***** range.
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Post by foreveryoung on Jul 23, 2011 11:33:32 GMT -5
Bret referred to Ric as 20 mins of "non stop-non psychology" I guess I can see his point. if you look back at some of Ric's work alot of the stuff he did had no rhyme of reason. He would work the arm and then work the leg with no reason. Not to mention you could plot out Ric's spots many times throughout his matches. He was VERY formulaic alot of times.
In alot of ways Ric was a 5 dressed up as a 10.
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Post by Throwback on Jul 23, 2011 12:26:38 GMT -5
in his book Bret says that Flair would do things on the fly without calling them first. Causing Bret to take unexpected bumps and hurting himself.
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Post by repomanfan on Jul 23, 2011 14:37:12 GMT -5
My understanding is that Bret found some of Flair's staples (the floppy bumps in particular) to be unrealistic. I also took it to mean that Bret had problems adjusting to how Flair works. I heard a shoot interview with Ricky Steamboat where he pointed out that he and Flair didn't pre-plan any of their spots from their '89 matches. All they had were the finishes yet both guys felt comfortable enough with each other to go out there and create a match like a great jazz musician interpeting a great song. Steamboat contrasted that to working with Savage who slavishly tried to make every spot precise. I think maybe Bret would have liked to have been able to have done some different stuff with Flair but because of Ric's methodology was unable to do so. Different styles and approaches to wrestling. Bret would of meshed much better with Savage than with Flair. Some guys are great at improvisation, while others are better at planning and memorizing each step. Was Flair unrealistic at times; ya he was. But he could wrestle some damn great matches as well. Flair wasn't the perfect wrestler and neither was Bret. Steamboat IMO was better than both of them. |
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Post by horsemen4ever on Jul 23, 2011 16:51:26 GMT -5
I never liked the finish to the WWF title match in Canada, Flair instantly submitted to the sharpeshooter. That ending not only made Flair looked bad, but made Sting look bad. Flair has been in that hold before, remember Clash of Champions 1.
I have nothing against Flair submitting, but he should have held out longer, Flair reputation was that he could take a lot of pain, he has been in submission holds and doesn't give that easily. They should have gave him at least a minute before submitting, have him almost get to the ropes once, like Tripple H at Wrestlemania XX.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2011 18:25:54 GMT -5
How many times have the two wrestled one another? I can only recall once during 1991 when Ric Flair was in the WWE, but have they wrestled one another in WCW? I didn't get to watch much WCW until about 2000, so I need to keep up. Ric and Bret had a 60 Minute Iron Man match at the Boston Gardens on Jan. 9, 1993. It was filmed by someone in the audience and is available on Youtube (search for "WWF House Show - Boston - January 9, 1993") Out of sheer curiosity how does one covertly tape a match from the crowd in 1993? |
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Post by Free Hat on Jul 23, 2011 18:34:14 GMT -5
Ric and Bret had a 60 Minute Iron Man match at the Boston Gardens on Jan. 9, 1993. It was filmed by someone in the audience and is available on Youtube (search for "WWF House Show - Boston - January 9, 1993") Out of sheer curiosity how does one covertly tape a match from the crowd in 1993? I've seen older recordings from house shows. It really wouldn't have needed to be covert, as I sincerely doubt anyone in the company would have given a shit back then. |
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Jul 23, 2011 19:08:17 GMT -5
Ric and Bret had a 60 Minute Iron Man match at the Boston Gardens on Jan. 9, 1993. It was filmed by someone in the audience and is available on Youtube (search for "WWF House Show - Boston - January 9, 1993") Out of sheer curiosity how does one covertly tape a match from the crowd in 1993?  |
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Post by celticjobber on Jul 23, 2011 19:47:23 GMT -5
Out of sheer curiosity how does one covertly tape a match from the crowd in 1993? I've seen older recordings from house shows. It really wouldn't have needed to be covert, as I sincerely doubt anyone in the company would have given a s*** back then. I remember at house shows from back then, the ring announcer would always warn the audience before the show started that camcorders or other video equipment were strictly prohibited (as was throwing trash or anything at the ring area). |
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Post by donny on Jul 23, 2011 20:22:07 GMT -5
I never liked the finish to the WWF title match in Canada, Flair instantly submitted to the sharpeshooter. That ending not only made Flair looked bad, but made Sting look bad. Flair has been in that hold before, remember Clash of Champions 1. No offense, but who cares if it made Sting look bad? He worked for the competition. I doubt very much that protecting WCW's top draw at the time was one of Vince McMahon's primary concerns. You want your guys to look like they're better. |
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Post by mrjl on Jul 23, 2011 21:20:51 GMT -5
I've seen older recordings from house shows. It really wouldn't have needed to be covert, as I sincerely doubt anyone in the company would have given a s*** back then. I remember at house shows from back then, the ring announcer would always warn the audience before the show started that camcorders or other video equipment were strictly prohibited (as was throwing trash or anything at the ring area). maybe someone who worked at the arena's they used decided to do it |
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