Fang
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 543
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Post by Fang on Jan 28, 2012 8:28:14 GMT -5
Without Heyman, Punk wouldve done nothing in WWE. He was lucky to have someone in his corner from the get go. It's scary to thing what would have happened if Heyman wasn't around. Would they have even called him CM Punk? Would he have even had the straight edge gimmick?
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Post by austinariesfan88 on Jan 28, 2012 9:13:15 GMT -5
I wonder how things would be if Heyman were still booking? Would there be other ROH and Indy guys he would sign and push?
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 28, 2012 9:53:21 GMT -5
911. Granted he didn't have much of a career after leaving ECW for WCW. But he was extremely over for a short period of time in 1995 or so. Didn't they say in a WWE made ECW DVD that the only thing that 911 brought to ECW was a decent chokeslam? Pretty much. Hell, look at what OWoW and Wikipedia list as his signature moves:
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Jan 28, 2012 10:13:45 GMT -5
Didn't they say in a WWE made ECW DVD that the only thing that 911 brought to ECW was a decent chokeslam? Pretty much. Hell, look at what OWoW and Wikipedia list as his signature moves: 911: Arrive. Chokeslam. Leave.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Jan 28, 2012 10:19:51 GMT -5
He helped speed up the process of going out of business by making Aldo Montoya into a main eventer when nobody was particularly buying it, so there's that. True, but that was at the point that he really didn't have any even half way mega over heels other than the Impact Players (and Rhyno) towards the end. He almost HAD to make Justin Credible a main event heel at that point. WCW and WWE had taken most of his best acts in a one year period. And Justin Credible was really good at the time. He really got to show his stuff in ECW in matches with Jerry Lynn and (I believe it was) Sasuke.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Jan 28, 2012 10:49:13 GMT -5
He obviously didn't make Stone Cold, but he was the first guy to give him a mic and say "Just be yourself and speak your mind." Austin and Vince would later learn that's a quick way to make millions and millions of dollars.
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Post by thegame415 on Jan 28, 2012 15:15:21 GMT -5
I remember someone saying that Paul says "Don't tell me what you can't do, let's see what you CAN do". He did that with his wrestlers.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 20:15:45 GMT -5
I gotta disagree with the idea that Raven wouldn't have "made it in the biz" without Heyman. He was very successful for several years prior to becoming Raven in ECW. He's in many ways a very brilliant guy when it comes to wrestling. Even without Heyman, he would have been a success in the industry.
The rest I agree with, and Public Enemy should have probably been the first two guys on the list. Looking back on their matches, it was all Heyman's smoke and mirrors that got them as over as they were. Same with Sandman.
One of the best things about Heyman's creativity is the ability to take below average wrestlers and turn them into "stars" in the eyes of the fans in the seats. Perfect example of that is a guy like Hack Myers. Local scrub and awful worker who became a cult favorite of the ECW fans.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 20:38:32 GMT -5
Without Heyman, Punk wouldve done nothing in WWE. He was lucky to have someone in his corner from the get go. I doubt that. While I'm sure that it helped to have a guy in his corner and get a good push from the jump, Punk is one of those guys that had his mind set on making it no matter what. HHH would have seen enough in him to push him eventually.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 20:50:15 GMT -5
Without Heyman, Punk wouldve done nothing in WWE. He was lucky to have someone in his corner from the get go. I doubt that. While I'm sure that it helped to have a guy in his corner and get a good push from the jump, Punk is one of those guys that had his mind set on making it no matter what. HHH would have seen enough in him to push him eventually. Not to mention, Heyman wasn't necessarily held in high regard among the WWE hierarchy at the time either (particularly Stephanie McMahon, from what I've heard). In that case, having Heyman pushing for you could actually hurt your chances.
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And_5400
Trap-Jaw
Congratulations......Does a bus run through here?
Posts: 490
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Post by And_5400 on Jan 28, 2012 23:13:51 GMT -5
Without Heyman, Punk wouldve done nothing in WWE. He was lucky to have someone in his corner from the get go. It's scary to thing what would have happened if Heyman wasn't around. Would they have even called him CM Punk? Would he have even had the straight edge gimmick? He'd probably have been an evil balloon salesman or 50's greaser.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jan 29, 2012 6:12:04 GMT -5
It's scary to thing what would have happened if Heyman wasn't around. Would they have even called him CM Punk? Would he have even had the straight edge gimmick? He'd probably have been an evil balloon salesman or 50's greaser. I'm pretty sure a Punk/Compton team would have still ruled.
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h
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,734
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Post by h on Jan 29, 2012 11:43:14 GMT -5
Most of the ECW roster. A lot of te guys there had very little talent in the way of wrestling, or even mic skills. Making a guy like Sandman who was out of shape, bad in the ring, bad on the mic into a damn icon is an act of genius in of itself. Ditto for Public Enemy and the Gangstas. Fair enough, but it's important to remember that The Gangstas made names for themselves and got a lot of coverage in Smoky Mountain Wrestling before joining ECW. Certainly, he let them run with the gimmick, although New Jack obviously go the big push at the expense of Mustafa Saed.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 11:57:48 GMT -5
Most of the ECW roster. A lot of te guys there had very little talent in the way of wrestling, or even mic skills. Making a guy like Sandman who was out of shape, bad in the ring, bad on the mic into a damn icon is an act of genius in of itself. Ditto for Public Enemy and the Gangstas. Fair enough, but it's important to remember that The Gangstas made names for themselves and got a lot of coverage in Smoky Mountain Wrestling before joining ECW. Certainly, he let them run with the gimmick, although New Jack obviously go the big push at the expense of Mustafa Saed. Mustafa was kinda slow, a graduate of the Iron Sheik's Abdominal Gym (the six-pack over the bloated belly), his interviews were sketchy, but his main drawback was that he lived in Nevada and Paul E. couldn't fly him out for every show. So they phased him out. Gotta give Paul some credit for "reviving" the careers of Tracey Smothers & Tommy Rich as members of the FBI. (Honestly, who gave either one of them a second thought?) I couldn't care less for Tommy Rich, one of the most boring wrestlers I've ever seen. (In WCW, Tommy Rich "squash matches" lasted 15 minutes for cryin' out loud.) But, his role as "The Don" was very entertaining. Tracey Smothers was allowed to show personality. He was like the anti-Tim Horner.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jan 29, 2012 15:49:13 GMT -5
Tracey Smothers was allowed to show personality. He was like the anti-Tim Horner. ;D In watching Smoky Mountain Wrestling from '92, the one thing I just do not understand, no matter how hard I try, is why they continually gave Tim Horner promo time.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 16:42:28 GMT -5
He was part owner in the early days of SMW.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jan 29, 2012 18:02:06 GMT -5
For some reason I read this as GUYS, PAUL HEYMAN NUDE
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 29, 2012 18:14:40 GMT -5
Heyman didn't even know the Raven gimmick would be what it was. He thought Scotty would be doing the Johnny Polo gimmick but as a grunge character rather than a pampered rich boy.
The Public Enemy is a great example as neither did much before the gimmick, and when they went to WCW and WWF where they couldn't rely on their hardcore gimmick, they struggled.
Same can be said for the Sandman, but he was over in WWE. Hell, he probably would have been more over in WCW if he didn't come in at a weird time.
A lot of guys from 95-97 were not getting many looks anywhere but Heyman made them commodities.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 29, 2012 18:19:51 GMT -5
Guys like Justin Credible and Steve Corino owe any success in the United States to Heyman. They would have never gotten past crap like Aldo Montoya otherwise.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Jan 29, 2012 18:21:36 GMT -5
He was part owner in the early days of SMW. That would explain things. I remember hearing the story about his split from the company. Supposedly, he and Cornette were arguing and Tim said something like, "I do a lot of work that goes unnoticed around here!" and Jim replied, "You're right about that, I haven't noticed you doing a damn thing since you've been here!" or something to that affect.
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