saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Jan 27, 2012 23:48:07 GMT -5
Who owes pretty much their entire career success to Paul E. for the characters he created/molded for them in ECW? He basically spawned an entire generation in one run with a renegade promotion.
Here's some who I think he did and a few who he doesn't deserve credit for IMO:
1) He made Taz. At his size, Taz probably becomes a short-term jobber and disappears forever if Paul E. didn't help him find a character inside himself and book him as an unbreakable wrecking machine.
2) Raven. The concept was all Paul. Levy owned it and allowed it to grow over the years, but without Heyman's genius he never makes it in the biz.
3) Sandman. Paul E. saw who the guy was and built his ring character around it.
4) Tommy Dreamer. He was made mostly through booking, especially never getting over against Raven for so long. Dreamer went from being a guy who was never embraced to being the standard-bearer for ECW all the way though his WWE run -- guy who couldn't quite ever get over, but who was all heart.
5) The Dudley Boys. Sure, there was talent there, but Paul E's brotherly gimmick allowed them all to get over and take their careers to the next level. The whole was better than the sum of the parts due to Paul E's genius.
6) I don't think Paul E. gets credit for Shane Douglas. The Franchise was Shane's character and his promos came out of his own previous experiences. Paul chose him to carry the early days of ECW as the promotion's one, true definable heel, and that opportunity helped make Douglas, but he made it work with his own character.
7) Definitely not Mick Foley. Again, the promo opportunities that Foley got are probably what vaulted him to the big time, and Paul deserves credit for giving him the platform and blank slate to work with, but the Cactus Jack character had thrived before Foley ever showed up at ECW and he was going to make it one way or another regardless.
8) RVD is not a Foley creation. He was given an opportunity and ran with it, but his work in the ring is what put him over.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 23:55:48 GMT -5
didn't DDP also help a bit with the Raven character?
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Post by thegatewaydrug on Jan 28, 2012 0:02:13 GMT -5
The Public Enemy and Sandman are the ultimate examples of Paul E covering up their many weaknesses and flaunting their hardcore strengths via strong booking and opponents. True, Sandman could get over on the mic, but both acts flopped everywhere else.
Mikey Whipwreck had the most unique career timeline of angles too. No one but Paul E would book a guy the way Mikey was booked.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 0:09:06 GMT -5
Gotta include The Public Enemy here. Heyman took two guys who weren't your classic wrestling specimens and turned them into one of the hottest acts in the mid-90s. When they went to WCW, they were over, but without Heyman to book them, they floundered among more talented teams such as Harlem Heat, The Nasty Boys, and The Steiners.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Jan 28, 2012 0:21:34 GMT -5
Good point on The Public Enemy, which was Dr. Paul E's first Frankenstein project.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 28, 2012 0:41:59 GMT -5
Paul was the guy who said, that CM Punk guy in developmental is pretty good, and was one of two call ups that Paul Heyman suggested, the other being Mike Knox.
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Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Jan 28, 2012 1:11:42 GMT -5
He helped speed up the process of going out of business by making Aldo Montoya into a main eventer when nobody was particularly buying it, so there's that.
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Jan 28, 2012 1:24:02 GMT -5
He helped speed up the process of going out of business by making Aldo Montoya into a main eventer when nobody was particularly buying it, so there's that. True, but that was at the point that he really didn't have any even half way mega over heels other than the Impact Players (and Rhyno) towards the end. He almost HAD to make Justin Credible a main event heel at that point. WCW and WWE had taken most of his best acts in a one year period. I'd also give him some credit in helping Brock Lesner, and to a smaller extent, CM Punk get more over initially. With Lesner, it was more of a hands on thing, being his manager/mouth piece at first, as well as being on the booking team to come up with ways to get Lesner over as a MONSTER. With Punk, he tried to get Punk over in his brief time co writing WWECW, giving him little moments like slapping Shannon Moore to make a statement. He's had a hand in making quite a few guys, beyond ECW.
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Jan 28, 2012 1:29:48 GMT -5
Most of the ECW roster. A lot of te guys there had very little talent in the way of wrestling, or even mic skills. Making a guy like Sandman who was out of shape, bad in the ring, bad on the mic into a damn icon is an act of genius in of itself. Ditto for Public Enemy and the Gangstas.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 28, 2012 1:41:41 GMT -5
Pretty much the entire ECW roster. I will say all of it. The guys who achieved higher success later, Foley, Jericho, Dudleyz, RVD got their exposure to WWF from that anyway. He made them all. Or, at the very least, gave them the exposure to let their own tools take them to the show.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 28, 2012 1:43:13 GMT -5
I'm trying to think of any post-ECW guys. He loved Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and of course worked with Brock Lesnar. He was the booker man during 2002-2003 so the Smackdown 6 obviously, so add Chavo Guerrero, Edge and Rey Mysterio to that list.
Punk and Mike Knox were the WWE ECW guys. Kevin Thorn I think was one of his guys, as the whole Vampire gimmick was his idea as he's a bit ahead of the curve, and really was at the time.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,524
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Post by bob on Jan 28, 2012 1:44:15 GMT -5
CM Punk in the revival
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Post by bitteroldman on Jan 28, 2012 1:45:49 GMT -5
Gotta disagree with the assessment of Shane Douglas ECW was the only place he had any real success and that was due to Heyman allowing him to cut the promo's he did and booking him as a champion. Without Heyman, Douglas is nothing more than a bitter prick who never rose above the mid-card in any other major promotion that he worked for.
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El Dandy
Don Corleone
Who are you to doubt El Dandy?
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Post by El Dandy on Jan 28, 2012 2:39:39 GMT -5
I found what Heyman did with Mikey Whipwreck to be quite astonishing. I guess the same could be said about Spike Dudley. They were two guys who sure as hell did not look like wrestlers, hell, they looked more like audience members and there is no way in hell either one of them would have ever lasted in the wrestling industry had it not been for Paul Heyman.
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Post by Jacob Lee on Jan 28, 2012 3:42:34 GMT -5
This is so weird because I've been watching old ECW from when they were Eastern Championship Wrestling on YouTube lately. There is an obvious change in booking logic and the show they're trying to put out once Heyman is in control of everything. However, in the long run I think Heyman was better at hiding weaknesses than building stars.
ECW created an attitude that was actually bigger than any of the wrestling they did. The wrestling was almost secondary to the atmosphere and angles. Were Public Enemy really very good? Sabu? Tommy Dreamer? Mikey Whipreck? Axl Rotten? Balls Mahoney? Justin Credible?
These guys weren't very good, but the booking protected them. That's the genius behind it.
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Post by celticjobber on Jan 28, 2012 5:00:35 GMT -5
911. Granted he didn't have much of a career after leaving ECW for WCW. But he was extremely over for a short period of time in 1995 or so.
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Post by bertheart90 on Jan 28, 2012 5:39:26 GMT -5
mike awesome in the u.s
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Post by derickyuki on Jan 28, 2012 7:31:48 GMT -5
911. Granted he didn't have much of a career after leaving ECW for WCW. But he was extremely over for a short period of time in 1995 or so. Didn't they say in a WWE made ECW DVD that the only thing that 911 brought to ECW was a decent chokeslam?
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Post by johnnyk9 on Jan 28, 2012 7:41:22 GMT -5
He did so much, creative genius
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Jan 28, 2012 7:47:52 GMT -5
Without Heyman, Punk wouldve done nothing in WWE. He was lucky to have someone in his corner from the get go.
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