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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 2, 2011 12:45:02 GMT -5
I get your argument, I don't agree with it, but I get it; except for this:
No he wasn't. Not remotely.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Sept 2, 2011 12:47:00 GMT -5
I think Austin pandered. The "hell Yeahs" the fact that he sort of became a knight whenever JR got in trouble.
I really think people just don't understand that you HAVE to undergo some changes to be a top face. Whether its slight pandering, or something, its a necessity. Its easy to say "don't change anything" but it just doesn't work like that. Things change when you position changes.
The only exception may just be the Undertaker. And he's always been a special case.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 2, 2011 12:47:36 GMT -5
Faces pander. It's what they do. Even Taker had ways of doing so.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Sept 2, 2011 13:08:09 GMT -5
I think Punk has fallen into a very good groove. I was upset at first when he was almost immediately removed from the title picture, but Nash showing up made me mark out a lot. One thing I am happy about was the feud with HHH. I had hoped it could be pushed off until mania. HHH will definitely be a little rusty...If he is not in the title picture I hope we at least see the pepsi plunge.
What sucks is a new fresh Punk is still surrounded by the same old shit. Cena v Del Rio has essentially taken all interest that brought me back to watching raw and I have barely caught any of it.
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Post by bathory on Sept 2, 2011 13:12:45 GMT -5
Shocker, Punk, the nr.2 face on RAW is trying to appease the fans. Yeah, you don't need to be a genious to realize that that's what helps you get over as long as you keep it authentic (see Rock, Austin, Sting, Taker and a whole lot of other legends).
Punk is trying to be a modern day socially relevant face. He does say a few things that relate to the IWC, but he also doesn't go into 100% internet smark mode and talks about stuff that casuals can't get. You don't need to be a smark to realize that there might be dirty politics backstage or that hypocrites may be running the company.
Austin was the action hero back then because action movies, swearing, crash tv were popular back then. Nowadays, a lot of shows have a more thought out and rational approach in storylines. CM Punk is trying to hit those mainstream masses hungry for deeper characters while at the same time pleasing the IWC because the IWC generally likes characters like this aswell. Then again the IWC also loves Austin and Rock, and I have never heard those guys beeing mentioned as "superstars for internet geeks" either.
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Post by joebob27 on Sept 2, 2011 13:58:21 GMT -5
Austin didn't pander when he'd go on a "powerwalk to turnbuckle, go to second rope, middle finger, on to the next turnbuckle, etc." rampage?
He didn't have the best week, but c'mon. He was going fine until they directly used Trips as an adversary, while he was still a face. He'll be fine, if not, it won't be his fault and he won't be the first.
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Post by Joe Galt on Sept 2, 2011 14:00:07 GMT -5
This is what made Punk such a great heel. The fans are having a hard time forgiving him for the stuff he has done over the past few years. Don`t worry though. They`ll come around to love him.
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Post by alliedbiscuit on Sept 2, 2011 14:14:37 GMT -5
It comes with the territory. And its good for him, IMO. Good call. Someone else made this analogy: its like a band that crosses over into the mainstream, and all the old fans liked them better before. But that doesn't make the opinion of the old fans invalid at all, because in most cases said band really has changed, and that "thing" they had before might not be there.. You shed your old fanbase to gain a new one. It's not a situation where its "oooo they're popular, now I hate them", at least for me its not. This is a strange case though, because I really feel that his crowd reactions were bigger before this Summer of Punk angle, Chicago notwithstanding. It's probably got to do with working with Triple H in this convoluted angle, and the fans just being confused on how they're supposed to take him. Time will tell. You are entitled to your opinion but I hope you aren't basing this off reactions he got in shit towns like Tulsa and Wichita. Seriously, the contract signing with Triple H was an awesome back and forth but the idiots in Wichita weren't making a sound for either guy, and many were just jumping up and down because the camera was on them. It was embarrassing. It reminded me of the guy in a front row at a baseball game who is on his cell phone repeatedly waving. Yeah, we see you, jackass.
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CM Dazz
King Koopa
Chuck
Posts: 10,475
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Post by CM Dazz on Sept 2, 2011 14:53:42 GMT -5
I'm not really into Punk running back and forth on the stage. It kind of seems awkward or forced. Don't know what else he could do though.
As far as him kneeling on the stage and yelling "It's clobbering time!", it doesn't always seem to work now. It seems that it has to be done right at the perfect moment during Cult. Some times he hits it and looks/sounds good, others it seems out of place.
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
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Post by Yami Daimao on Sept 2, 2011 16:01:09 GMT -5
He should just do the thing where his arms were open, stroll down the ramp, turn around and walk backwards while displaying the "Best In The World" on the back of his shirt.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Sept 2, 2011 17:42:10 GMT -5
I've noticed that CM Punk now more than ever is a walking internet meme.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 2, 2011 18:02:11 GMT -5
Punk needs to start outlining the "change" he seeks to bring about.
It's too vague so far.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 2, 2011 18:26:47 GMT -5
I like him going to different sides of the stage, and I hope he continues to do it.
In fact, why is the word "pandering" even a dirty word to begin with? What John Cena does is what every good face wrestler should do- he's a master of hyping up a crowd, and if Punk is somehow able to assimilate that into his usual wise-ass rebel act, he'll be unstoppable.
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Post by kyromax on Sept 2, 2011 18:34:04 GMT -5
No more fake puking, and I am still a fan
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2011 18:35:54 GMT -5
WORKED SHOOTS DO NOT WORK IN WRESTLING IF DONE TO DEATH!
There, I got that out of my system. Seriously, having Punk go out there every week doing insider references and worked shoots to get ooh's from the crowd is not going to draw money. It worked once because it came out of no where (the Punk/Cena/Vince feud), but now it is old hat.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2011 18:44:09 GMT -5
Honestly, what bugs me is how they're trying to get him over in this whole face capacity by putting him against other faces pretty much exclusively. With the fact that Punk's character is a complete asshole anyway and Triple H has been calling him out on it, he still comes off like a heel, just one kissing the fans' asses to get them to support his goals.
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Post by moneyman20 on Sept 2, 2011 22:50:16 GMT -5
Punk needs to start outlining the "change" he seeks to bring about. It's too vague so far. This. He talks so much about change and hasn't mentioned what exactly he wants changed. Give us some specifics.
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Post by bathory on Sept 2, 2011 22:57:45 GMT -5
Well, since Punk was talking about change and stuff. If people remember Punks first worked shoot promo and connect until now they will probably realize that Punk did a lot of things he wanted to do except one : Bring on the KOW/Cabana combo.
I also couldn't think of a better timing, the guy is in against Nash and Triple H since most people won't assume that Nash won't somehow take action during the NOC match again Triple H, imagine Nash trying to come out to disrupt the match only to get roaring elbowed by Chris Hero coming out from the front row seats. It would be pretty original having a very powerful face stable for once.
Not to mention I'd mark the hell if guys like Triple H and Nash got laid out by "indyriffic" guys such as KOW as Nash said it.
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CM Dazz
King Koopa
Chuck
Posts: 10,475
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Post by CM Dazz on Sept 2, 2011 23:18:37 GMT -5
He should just do the thing where his arms were open, stroll down the ramp, turn around and walk backwards while displaying the "Best In The World" on the back of his shirt. Yep. That's exactly what I thought the other night, but forgot when I made my post earlier.
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Post by jadison on Sept 3, 2011 1:10:01 GMT -5
Honestly, what bugs me is how they're trying to get him over in this whole face capacity by putting him against other faces pretty much exclusively. With the fact that Punk's character is a complete asshole anyway and Triple H has been calling him out on it, he still comes off like a heel, just one kissing the fans' asses to get them to support his goals. Absolutely. The only way this all works out is if Trips and Cena turn heel. Then Punk can be like "see?! I told you all what was going to happen!" It would be like the 10/10/10 thing in TNA with Sting, which had potential but got well...TNA'd. Good call. Someone else made this analogy: its like a band that crosses over into the mainstream, and all the old fans liked them better before. But that doesn't make the opinion of the old fans invalid at all, because in most cases said band really has changed, and that "thing" they had before might not be there.. You shed your old fanbase to gain a new one. It's not a situation where its "oooo they're popular, now I hate them", at least for me its not. This is a strange case though, because I really feel that his crowd reactions were bigger before this Summer of Punk angle, Chicago notwithstanding. It's probably got to do with working with Triple H in this convoluted angle, and the fans just being confused on how they're supposed to take him. Time will tell. You are entitled to your opinion but I hope you aren't basing this off reactions he got in s*** towns like Tulsa and Wichita. Seriously, the contract signing with Triple H was an awesome back and forth but the idiots in Wichita weren't making a sound for either guy, and many were just jumping up and down because the camera was on them. It was embarrassing. It reminded me of the guy in a front row at a baseball game who is on his cell phone repeatedly waving. Yeah, we see you, jackass. To me, there are more Tulsa/Wichita type towns that WWE runs than hip east coast towns where Punk would be well received. He's gotta connect with middle America to really be a face. I kinda thought from the beginning that Punk's too subtle to really be a huge mainstream face. He's not a yeller, no catchphrases, he makes a lot of strange references, and he's pretty dry overall (though with obvious ham tendencies). His hook is the straight edge thing, but that has been de-emphasized, its just easier to book that as a "holier than thou" character. Bottom line, his pops seem to be dwindling each week, I would hope they would be increasing or sustaining their size after just over a month. Something has to happen storyline-wise to validate his claims, otherwise he's just a more intelligible R-Truth.
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