Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Sept 3, 2011 12:26:05 GMT -5
Vince and his family were in the story from the start. Punk went after them in his first promo.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Sept 3, 2011 12:35:49 GMT -5
Oh I agree it is denial. I shudder to think how over Punk would be at this very moment, if the seeds were laid for Cena to turn heel soon, side with Vince and going up against the "status quo". Thats what got him over to begin with. ( at the highest level), his fued with Vince and the issues with Cena. They have completely gone away from all that its horrible what they did to Punk. He still over, but IMO nowhere near what he actually could be if they continued with main storyline premise without diluting everything. Someone should have been legitimately fired over this mess. They took something with the potential to be the biggest angle since the invasion, and made it a muddled mess. This is what would have happened if they just "cold turkey'd" the Austin-Vince fued and decided to end that in the first few weeks and have Austin fued with Triple H and Stephanie and Patterson and Brisco in a handicap match and trying to figure out who texted Big Bossman to lay Austin out That's why I stopped watching WWE altogether. The potential of this storyline was limitless, I could actually stomach the idea of Punk feuding with Del Rio over the title as they incorporate the curent angle. Because at least the focus would be on Punk and Del Rio, as well as the idea of a new Corporation being started. But instead Vince feels the need to insert FAMILY into this story, Hunter's ego is too big to accept that he isn't as good as he thinks he is, and Punk, along with Del Rio is suffering from the effects of this as well. a new Corporation? Are you talking the actual WWE or the storyline stable the Corporation? Because if you're talking WWE the business and putting it in the storyline then there's no excuse to not have a McMahon involved in the post kayfabe era. And if you're talking a stable... well the original stable was run by the McMahons. And the Corporation was corporate lackies. And the McMahons run the WWE corporation. So a McMahon would make sense there, too.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 3, 2011 12:38:43 GMT -5
That's why I stopped watching WWE altogether. The potential of this storyline was limitless, I could actually stomach the idea of Punk feuding with Del Rio over the title as they incorporate the curent angle. Because at least the focus would be on Punk and Del Rio, as well as the idea of a new Corporation being started. But instead Vince feels the need to insert FAMILY into this story, Hunter's ego is too big to accept that he isn't as good as he thinks he is, and Punk, along with Del Rio is suffering from the effects of this as well. a new Corporation? Are you talking the actual WWE or the storyline stable the Corporation? Because if you're talking WWE the business and putting it in the storyline then there's no excuse to not have a McMahon involved in the post kayfabe era. And if you're talking a stable... well the original stable was run by the McMahons. And the Corporation was corporate lackies. And the McMahons run the WWE corporation. So a McMahon would make sense there, too. A new Corporation stable. I mean completely brand new and I wouldn't mind Hunter leading the stable as the brains behind the faction. At this point the only ones that would make logical sense would be Hunter and Del Rio to be the members. Let's be honest here, we all know Hunter is going to turn heel in this storyline. Vince, Stephanie, and Linda need to be far away from this angle. In my opinion it seems the product improves without the inclusion of McMahon hogging the spotlight.
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Post by moneyman20 on Sept 3, 2011 12:40:52 GMT -5
Oh great character.. has it all.. If anything has hurt him its been the complete S*** booking they have done to him. Number 1 he shouldnt be fueding with the career killer, heat killer, overness killer, in Triple H ( who isnt even an active wrestler anymore, and can't ever be 1 upped, has to come out of the fued as the winner most of the time).. That does NOTHING for him except stagnate him. He shouldn't be fueding with a 50 year old 15 year past prime Nash. Why should Cena fued with Del Rio for countles title matches? Punk was the real champion kayfabe wise. He should get the rematch long before Cena ever does? Its poor booking.., not poor character development Couldn't have said it better myself if I tried. My only complaint about Punk's character as I posted earlier is that he wants change, yet he won't give specifics.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Sept 3, 2011 13:20:59 GMT -5
I think for the most part, people got waaay over excited about what Punk's initial promo could've led to (New boom period! New Austin!). It was never ever going to happen. Not because of the WWE, or Punk, but because that was a period of time that will almost certainly never be repeated.
In terms of his actual character, he's fine. He's now a main-event face, with all that comes with it.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Sept 3, 2011 13:59:34 GMT -5
a new Corporation? Are you talking the actual WWE or the storyline stable the Corporation? Because if you're talking WWE the business and putting it in the storyline then there's no excuse to not have a McMahon involved in the post kayfabe era. And if you're talking a stable... well the original stable was run by the McMahons. And the Corporation was corporate lackies. And the McMahons run the WWE corporation. So a McMahon would make sense there, too. A new Corporation stable. I mean completely brand new and I wouldn't mind Hunter leading the stable as the brains behind the faction. At this point the only ones that would make logical sense would be Hunter and Del Rio to be the members. Let's be honest here, we all know Hunter is going to turn heel in this storyline. Vince, Stephanie, and Linda need to be far away from this angle. In my opinion it seems the product improves without the inclusion of McMahon hogging the spotlight. Hunter's a McMahon now.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Sept 3, 2011 14:03:22 GMT -5
I think for the most part, people got waaay over excited about what Punk's initial promo could've led to (New boom period! New Austin!). It was never ever going to happen. Not because of the WWE, or Punk, but because that was a period of time that will almost certainly never be repeated. In terms of his actual character, he's fine. He's now a main-event face, with all that comes with it. you know, one thing that is never brought up, I wonder how much the boom period was actually powered by it's own momentum and having two mega promotions and a third with cult status. With WCW giving away results and WWE talking about how some of their former stars were in WCW, plus an ECW invasion of Raw and people constantly jumping ship... they were just encouraging you to flip around to see what the other guys were doing no matter how much they criticized them or insuled them
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Post by johnnybaseball, Mantaur Fan on Sept 3, 2011 14:49:54 GMT -5
For me, I still really like the angle. It is less about whodunnit for me, as much as being interested in who is going to do what next. I think it is interesting because I can't really predict how this is all going to shake out. Maybe long time viewers have a better sense of it, but not everyone is a long time viewer, and for someone just tuning in for the first time, there is a lot of interesting stuff going on. (Anecdotally, my friend's friend watched Smackdown on Tuesday for the first time, and said he was entertained throughout, thought the cage match was awesome, and intends to continue watching wrestling.)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2011 16:01:47 GMT -5
I think for the most part, people got waaay over excited about what Punk's initial promo could've led to (New boom period! New Austin!). It was never ever going to happen. Not because of the WWE, or Punk, but because that was a period of time that will almost certainly never be repeated. In terms of his actual character, he's fine. He's now a main-event face, with all that comes with it. you know, one thing that is never brought up, I wonder how much the boom period was actually powered by it's own momentum and having two mega promotions and a third with cult status. With WCW giving away results and WWE talking about how some of their former stars were in WCW, plus an ECW invasion of Raw and people constantly jumping ship... they were just encouraging you to flip around to see what the other guys were doing no matter how much they criticized them or insuled them That was part of it, but the big reason was 1) Hulk Hogan's heel turn, and 2) the time period. Hogan's turn and the nWo angle in general lead to WCW's growth, which in turn made Vince have to change his carny mindset, and with the late-90's being about crash TV and sex (Springer, South Park, etc) coupled with the internet boom, it made Russo's asinine writing style actually work. That won't be duplicated because there is no Hogan equivalent to shake up the current wrestling landscape, and they have already done practically everything in wrestling that almost nothing is shocking anymore (which is why Punk's promo was more impactful). Punk was never going to lead another boom period, but his character could have appealed to many people if they had not pushed him away from what he was doing originally. Having him come back to the company that never appreciated him 2 freakin' weeks after he left with the belt pretty much ruined the entire angle, no matter how much people want to defend that decision. No one was asking for Punk to be Sting circa-1997 and not wrestle for a year, but at least make it longer than 2 weeks!
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Sept 3, 2011 16:27:10 GMT -5
you know, one thing that is never brought up, I wonder how much the boom period was actually powered by it's own momentum and having two mega promotions and a third with cult status. With WCW giving away results and WWE talking about how some of their former stars were in WCW, plus an ECW invasion of Raw and people constantly jumping ship... they were just encouraging you to flip around to see what the other guys were doing no matter how much they criticized them or insuled them That was part of it, but the big reason was 1) Hulk Hogan's heel turn, and 2) the time period. Hogan's turn and the nWo angle in general lead to WCW's growth, which in turn made Vince have to change his carny mindset, and with the late-90's being about crash TV and sex (Springer, South Park, etc) coupled with the internet boom, it made Russo's asinine writing style actually work. That won't be duplicated because there is no Hogan equivalent to shake up the current wrestling landscape, and they have already done practically everything in wrestling that almost nothing is shocking anymore (which is why Punk's promo was more impactful). Punk was never going to lead another boom period, but his character could have appealed to many people if they had not pushed him away from what he was doing originally. Having him come back to the company that never appreciated him 2 freakin' weeks after he left with the belt pretty much ruined the entire angle, no matter how much people want to defend that decision. No one was asking for Punk to be Sting circa-1997 and not wrestle for a year, but at least make it longer than 2 weeks! my thoughts were basically what kept the boom period going once it got started but honestly, Sting was a pissed of guy under contract. Punk was pissed off, not under contract and had alienated everyone. The idea that WWE even offered him another contract after he left with the belt is stretching suspension of disbelief to me.
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H-Fist
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,485
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Post by H-Fist on Sept 3, 2011 22:01:24 GMT -5
That was part of it, but the big reason was 1) Hulk Hogan's heel turn, and 2) the time period. Hogan's turn and the nWo angle in general lead to WCW's growth, which in turn made Vince have to change his carny mindset, and with the late-90's being about crash TV and sex (Springer, South Park, etc) coupled with the internet boom, it made Russo's asinine writing style actually work. That won't be duplicated because there is no Hogan equivalent to shake up the current wrestling landscape, and they have already done practically everything in wrestling that almost nothing is shocking anymore (which is why Punk's promo was more impactful). Punk was never going to lead another boom period, but his character could have appealed to many people if they had not pushed him away from what he was doing originally. Having him come back to the company that never appreciated him 2 freakin' weeks after he left with the belt pretty much ruined the entire angle, no matter how much people want to defend that decision. No one was asking for Punk to be Sting circa-1997 and not wrestle for a year, but at least make it longer than 2 weeks! my thoughts were basically what kept the boom period going once it got started but honestly, Sting was a pissed of guy under contract. Punk was pissed off, not under contract and had alienated everyone. The idea that WWE even offered him another contract after he left with the belt is stretching suspension of disbelief to me. I think of Punk leaving with the belt only to be offered a new, big contract as akin to a major athlete demanding a trade, not getting it, going into free agency, testing the waters, and realizing that more money/glory/fame is to be gained by staying put, while the team realizes that, for all the guy's annoyances, he can make them more successful on/off the field than anyone else available. It's a situation where, in the end, neither side would cut off its nose to spite its face.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Sept 3, 2011 22:16:47 GMT -5
Punk leaving with the title was HORRIBLY glossed over. It's the only part of the angle I think was just completely, completely handled incorrectly. ECW did two great angles along similar lines to this. The first was when The Sandman won the ECW Title for the first time and the entire locker room banded together to express their complete disgust that someone like him was their World Champ and started gunning for him. The second was after RVD showed up as Mr Monday Night for the first time and everyone banned together to want to beat the hell out of him.
They should've done something like that with Punk. Have everyone calling Punk out for being such a selfish asshole and disrespecting the company and all its great champions by taking the title. From Cena all the way to Otunga/McGillicutty, have them saying if he ever dares show his face again, he's getting killed. Then when he does come back, he's this singular entity. He still has valid points to make to the audience, but every single wrestler is alienated from him. As it stands right now, we're probably less than a month from him teaming with Cena on a meaningless RAW main event.
But instead, they have a tournament the next night and Punk shows up again the next week with only Vince pissed at him. Bleh.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 3, 2011 23:12:49 GMT -5
I think for the most part, people got waaay over excited about what Punk's initial promo could've led to (New boom period! New Austin!). It was never ever going to happen. Not because of the WWE, or Punk, but because that was a period of time that will almost certainly never be repeated. In terms of his actual character, he's fine. He's now a main-event face, with all that comes with it. But they WERE building to something huge. Look back after Punk won and ran off, or even back when he cut his first worked-shoot. Look at the amount of buzz that was generating; it was all over the Net, even on non-wrestling sites, it was getting into mainstream sports coverage, it was creating genuine interest and excitement. How else do you start even a miniature version of a "boom" if you put out the spark that was lighting the fuse? Punk creating a division between the older, jaded fans and the younger, more catered to crowd, and his overthrowing of the established order by running away with the gold caused an ENORMOUS reaction, even outside of wrestling circles. Less than one month later, the buzz was completely dead. That is completely inexcusable.
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