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Post by twiggy101 on Nov 6, 2011 20:27:37 GMT -5
If they're pressing charges per picture then by that logic if someone has like a 3 minute video that runs on 30 fps, that would be more than 5000 pictures.
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Red Lion
Dennis Stamp
Put your mask on!
Posts: 4,002
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Post by Red Lion on Nov 6, 2011 20:43:22 GMT -5
Sick man, but harsh punishment.
I look at porn, but it doesn't mean that I've shagged every Playboy centrefold.
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"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
You couldn't ask for a better custom title!
How do you spell "Goddess"? C-H-R-I-S-T-Y!
Posts: 15,300
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Nov 7, 2011 3:17:22 GMT -5
I always wondered if that theory would apply to anything else in life. Is possessing a video of a guy getting murdered make one just as guilty as the guy who filmed the murder? If purchasing the video meant he was contributing money to the one killing people, to go kill more people, yes, he'd be culpable, too. BINGO. Or, if it's not contributing money, it's certainly encouraging the same people to do the same f***ed-up shit. All these scumbags need is for one person to approve of what they do, and they'll keep doing it.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Nov 7, 2011 3:19:39 GMT -5
Sounds good to me. People who get off on little kids are disgusting and deserve to be locked away.
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Post by Alex Shelley on Nov 7, 2011 4:07:52 GMT -5
Some general thoughts.
- As far as rehabilitation, it's not likely. There is no "cure" for pedophilia. It's not something that can be changed about a person. Even chemical castration doesn't work. Many pedophiles are extremely aware of how disgusting their condition is and hate themselves for it, and never look at child porn. If they can't change it, I doubt that somebody who actually looks at child porn can. While I am generally 100% a supporter of prison as rehabilitation, in this case it's not feasible.
- Regarding the actual transition from watching child porn to assaulting somebody, the evidence actually tends to show that that doesn't necessarily happen, although there's nothing conclusive, at least there wasn't the last time I looked into the matter which was over a year ago. There's a lack of studies on the matter for what I assume would be obvious reasons. The research I looked at was about sex crimes in Japan following the legalization of porn, child assault rates in I believe Denmark after the legalization of non-real child porn (things like anime and manga, so no children were harmed in making it), and I believe a study on people who had been convicted of owning child porn and if they would go on to do an assault later in life. The conclusion I was able to reach was that in general child porn does not encourage people to go out and assault children (and may even prevent such a thing in many), but for some people it DOES encourage it.
- The act of possessing child porn is the act of encouraging such shit to exist. If there was no market, would children still be abused? Yes. But the lack of a market for it might at least lessen the blow, or make it easier for the survivors to heal if there is no picture or video evidence online. Because, by possessing it, you're encouraging and supporting its existence, you should be given a harsh sentence.
- Yes, of course people who actually make and upload this crap should be locked away forever. That is what needs to change.
So basically, I have absolutely no problem with this guy being in jail for life. There's no way to rehabilitate pedophilia out of a person - at least not with our current knowledge - and he indirectly played a part in child porn existing. So f*** him. People like him are absolute scum.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,975
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Nov 7, 2011 6:22:06 GMT -5
You know who I have never heard of being caught, a person who creates child porn. Not once ever.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,204
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 7, 2011 7:08:46 GMT -5
You know who I have never heard of being caught, a person who creates child porn. Not once ever. It happens sometimes, though likely they are more often caught for having it, as I imagine that is much easier to prove.
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Post by Cyno on Nov 7, 2011 9:59:42 GMT -5
A lot of child porn producers are also in foreign countries. And are really good at covering their tracks. The sex slave trade is sickeningly good at not being caught, even in this country.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Nov 7, 2011 10:45:48 GMT -5
This is total bulls***. Is rehabilitation not even a possibility for someone who didn't even take the images themselves? by and large, statistically it isn't. Child Molestors have a disproportionately large risk to re-offend compared to other cons. as for this guy, f*** him. by owning and enjoying that material, he's complicit in hundreds of children being hurt. he may not have taken the pics himself, but kids were hurt just so he could get his sick jollies.
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"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
You couldn't ask for a better custom title!
How do you spell "Goddess"? C-H-R-I-S-T-Y!
Posts: 15,300
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Nov 7, 2011 11:08:14 GMT -5
Some general thoughts. - As far as rehabilitation, it's not likely. There is no "cure" for pedophilia. It's not something that can be changed about a person. Even chemical castration doesn't work. Many pedophiles are extremely aware of how disgusting their condition is and hate themselves for it, and never look at child porn. If they can't change it, I doubt that somebody who actually looks at child porn can. While I am generally 100% a supporter of prison as rehabilitation, in this case it's not feasible. - Regarding the actual transition from watching child porn to assaulting somebody, the evidence actually tends to show that that doesn't necessarily happen, although there's nothing conclusive, at least there wasn't the last time I looked into the matter which was over a year ago. There's a lack of studies on the matter for what I assume would be obvious reasons. The research I looked at was about sex crimes in Japan following the legalization of porn, child assault rates in I believe Denmark after the legalization of non-real child porn (things like anime and manga, so no children were harmed in making it), and I believe a study on people who had been convicted of owning child porn and if they would go on to do an assault later in life. The conclusion I was able to reach was that in general child porn does not encourage people to go out and assault children (and may even prevent such a thing in many), but for some people it DOES encourage it. - The act of possessing child porn is the act of encouraging such s*** to exist. If there was no market, would children still be abused? Yes. But the lack of a market for it might at least lessen the blow, or make it easier for the survivors to heal if there is no picture or video evidence online. Because, by possessing it, you're encouraging and supporting its existence, you should be given a harsh sentence.- Yes, of course people who actually make and upload this crap should be locked away forever. That is what needs to change. So basically, I have absolutely no problem with this guy being in jail for life. There's no way to rehabilitate pedophilia out of a person - at least not with our current knowledge - and he indirectly played a part in child porn existing. So f*** him. People like him are absolute scum. I never did any actual research, but that is the point I was trying to make, (especially the underlined part) so thank you.
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Post by eukaryote on Nov 7, 2011 11:50:21 GMT -5
As much as the idea of child pornography disturbs me, life imprisonment is absolutely ridiculous. There appears to be a universal knee-jerk reaction any time pedophilia or child molestation is mentioned. What people are incapable of doing is assessing and analysing the factors that lead to one becoming sexually attracted to children.
For example, take the case of a 40 year old man who was married and had a stepdaughter. Strangely, he began to get a taste for child pornography, even going so far as to make a move on his young stepdaughter. Ultimately his wife left him and he was taken to court. He was placed in a rehabilitation program but was kicked out after making passes at the staff who worked there. Eventually they took a scan and discovered that he had a massive tumour on his frontal lobe (the area of the brain primarily used for decision making - i.e. choosing right or wrong actions). They removed the lobe and his sexual behaviour returned to normal. Six months later, however, he began to exhibit signs of pedophilia again and, after a second scan, realized that they had missed part of the tumour and it had regrown. Once it was fully removed, his behaviour once again returned to normal.
Now, this is not the case with every pedophile, nor am I saying that we cannot punish those who commit crimes but that we must understand that we are quite dependent on our biology to make decisions and, often, we are not as in control as we might believe that we are. If we understand the neurobiology of behaviour, we can then make better judgments in court- leading to more accurate sentencing or, indeed, rehabilitation.
Although I abhor child molestation, I cannot advocate life imprisonment until we fully understand their behaviour or, at least, try to discover what the root of it is.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,014
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Post by nate5054 on Nov 7, 2011 13:44:17 GMT -5
If the market for child porn out there is millions of people like it's been claimed, do most of you propose we actually lock up millions of people away for life?
Or at that point as a society do we have to come to the conclusion that there has to be another way to deal with this problem?
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,373
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Nov 7, 2011 13:49:43 GMT -5
As much as the idea of child pornography disturbs me, life imprisonment is absolutely ridiculous. There appears to be a universal knee-jerk reaction any time pedophilia or child molestation is mentioned. What people are incapable of doing is assessing and analysing the factors that lead to one becoming sexually attracted to children. For example, take the case of a 40 year old man who was married and had a stepdaughter. Strangely, he began to get a taste for child pornography, even going so far as to make a move on his young stepdaughter. Ultimately his wife left him and he was taken to court. He was placed in a rehabilitation program but was kicked out after making passes at the staff who worked there. Eventually they took a scan and discovered that he had a massive tumour on his frontal lobe (the area of the brain primarily used for decision making - i.e. choosing right or wrong actions). They removed the lobe and his sexual behaviour returned to normal. Six months later, however, he began to exhibit signs of pedophilia again and, after a second scan, realized that they had missed part of the tumour and it had regrown. Once it was fully removed, his behaviour once again returned to normal. Now, this is not the case with every pedophile, nor am I saying that we cannot punish those who commit crimes but that we must understand that we are quite dependent on our biology to make decisions and, often, we are not as in control as we might believe that we are. If we understand the neurobiology of behaviour, we can then make better judgments in court- leading to more accurate sentencing or, indeed, rehabilitation. Although I abhor child molestation, I cannot advocate life imprisonment until we fully understand their behaviour or, at least, try to discover what the root of it is. If the man in question demonstrates that he has such a tumor after his conviction it is grounds for an appeal. If he cannot do that, then he can rot away in prison because he earned that sentence.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Nov 7, 2011 13:53:41 GMT -5
I could care less what happens to that guy. They could drag him over a bed or razor blades and I wouldn't care. BUT, it's really stupid. The punishment obviously doesn't fit the crime because like others said, he would have gotten off better if he had just molested a child.
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Post by Michael Coello on Nov 7, 2011 13:56:26 GMT -5
I could care less what happens to that guy. They could drag him over a bed or razor blades and I wouldn't care. BUT, it's really stupid. The punishment obviously doesn't fit the crime because like others said, he would have gotten off better if he had just molested a child. Oooooh, bad choice in wording......
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Post by rapidfire187 on Nov 7, 2011 14:02:36 GMT -5
I could care less what happens to that guy. They could drag him over a bed or razor blades and I wouldn't care. BUT, it's really stupid. The punishment obviously doesn't fit the crime because like others said, he would have gotten off better if he had just molested a child. Oooooh, bad choice in wording...... It only strengthens my point ;D
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Post by salsashark on Nov 7, 2011 14:15:28 GMT -5
I wasn't aware of the difficulty of rehabilitating child molesters and the like. That's really too disappointing, though -- I always hope that somehow that people who have done s***ty things can somehow get better and rejoin society in some capacity. Anyhow, I do understand how touchy people get when it comes to rape, child porn, and other sex-related crimes/offenses, but I do think thinking that they should all be locked up for good is kind of a knee-jerk reaction based on personal experience. It's obviously sick stuff and it f***s people up -- no doubt -- I just wish people could be more level-headed when discussing the implications of the justice system when it comes to people who've committed these crimes. On a semi-related note, I feel like murder is taken more lightly in convos of this stuff than sexual crimes when one is far more permanent than other offenses. From my understanding, your typical pedo who looks at CP does it to satisfy their less-than-moral urges rather than to fuel acting out on it. Which while still awful and still something to pursue by law, is much less of a threat than those trying to distribute, let alone the scum who actually produce this stuff. I imagine it's similar to people who have bizarre fetishes. It's not like someone who is into something extreme or bizarre is guaranteed to do it just because they view it. It's a forbidden kink. This great quote fascinates me, too. How many people watch or are interested in bizarre things that they'd not actually participate in themselves in real life? I don't just mean sexual stuff (although it's a good starting point) but also other more-bending stuff, like enjoying the thought of killing someone in an ultra-realistic video game or being fascinated by serial killers. Should people be punished for supporting those activities even if they are not participating in them?
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Post by Cyno on Nov 7, 2011 14:25:09 GMT -5
Well, those are all fictionalized accounts. There's a huge world of difference between taking an interest in the history of serial killers or playing an ultra-violent video game with fictional characters and watching a snuff film. It's not like John Wayne Gacy made any money off of his horrific crimes that encouraged him to keep going.
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Post by salsashark on Nov 7, 2011 14:28:17 GMT -5
Well, those are all fictionalized accounts. There's a huge world of difference between taking an interest in the history of serial killers or playing an ultra-violent video game with fictional characters and watching a snuff film. It's not like John Wayne Gacy made any money off of his horrific crimes that encouraged him to keep going. I definitely see what you mean, although I think the money is kind of a moot point in this scenario. (The pedo in the story could have easily downloaded them illegally off a torrent or something, thus keeping the producers from making money.) How about watching a snuff film then? Should people be prosecuted for doing that?
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Post by eukaryote on Nov 7, 2011 15:45:52 GMT -5
If the man in question demonstrates that he has such a tumor after his conviction it is grounds for an appeal. If he cannot do that, then he can rot away in prison because he earned that sentence. You missed the entire point of my post. I am quite aware that not every scenario is going to be like that of the one I described, however, you have to understand that we are largely at the mercy of our DNA (or biology, however you want to put it). Obviously pedophiles do not choose to be pedophiles - you cannot help what you are attracted to; some people have feet fetishes, or balloon fetishes, or latex fetishes but the problem arises when these fetishes harm other people as pedophilia can often do. What is important is trying to understand where this behaviour arises from and what we can do in order to curb it. Certainly we will never be able to prosecute somebody for having an attraction for children (I don't know about you but I don't like the idea of a "thought" police), so the best we can do is incarcerate somebody for possessing child pornography or, indeed, when it becomes physical and they sexually abuse a child. The problem is that too many people are blinded by their conditioned response of "eww, you like children, you're gross" to actually step back and make a rational judgment, analysing the various factors that may lead to one having a sexual attraction to children. They are aberrations, clearly, with most of us not having a sexual attraction to minors, so we have to understand what has gone "wrong" (so to speak).
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