Austin's thoughts on ADR and Cena (ADR not ready)

[The Ichi]

Oct 6, 2011 12:41:57 GMT -5 Cronant said:

Thats not his logic. More that the big heel should be built BEFORE they get to the top guy, not because they're feuding with him.

Del Rio was losing to Kofi before he cashed in, during that WWE title tournament. Now he's the top heel? Its backwards.

I'll say it again. Cena and Orton are what they should be. The other guys should be built as big before they get to those two. Punk was. Henry was. ADR wasn't, and neither have most of the heels they pushed.

Sheamus was jobbing to Goldust on ECW. A couple of months later and he's the top heel on Raw.

I don't think build matters as much as taking risks.

[FUNK_US/BRODUS]

For all this talk about elevating someone to Cena's level. Youve had Cena steamroll through the championship picture for the best part of SIX YEARS. Its ever likely you wont get someone at that level. When you push one guy THAT hard, you have to accept that you wont be able to get guys to look strong next to him.

[Cronant]

Oct 6, 2011 12:48:00 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Oct 6, 2011 12:41:57 GMT -5 Cronant said:

Thats not his logic. More that the big heel should be built BEFORE they get to the top guy, not because they're feuding with him.

Del Rio was losing to Kofi before he cashed in, during that WWE title tournament. Now he's the top heel? Its backwards.

I'll say it again. Cena and Orton are what they should be. The other guys should be built as big before they get to those two. Punk was. Henry was. ADR wasn't, and neither have most of the heels they pushed.

Sheamus was jobbing to Goldust on ECW. A couple of months later and he's the top heel on Raw.

I don't think build matters as much as taking risks.

And Sheamus dropped pretty quickly after he lost the title the second time.

If there were no belts, you'd be hard pressed to figure out who was 'bigger' than who after the ADR/Cody/Dolph/Swagger/Christian promo. But you could tell that Cena, Orton and Punk are one one level, Sheamus on another, and then the rest as far as faces go.

7 months ago Punk was just like that. Then, he had his big promo, his big story, and before the MITB match even happened he had separated himself from the others and put himself on that top level. Henry kinda did the same before the Orton match.

Them winning the title was just the exclamation point. For all the other guys its treated like the start of their push. That is the single biggest misstep in what WWE does with their world titles.

[Deleted]

Oct 6, 2011 12:48:00 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Oct 6, 2011 12:41:57 GMT -5 Cronant said:

Thats not his logic. More that the big heel should be built BEFORE they get to the top guy, not because they're feuding with him.

Del Rio was losing to Kofi before he cashed in, during that WWE title tournament. Now he's the top heel? Its backwards.

I'll say it again. Cena and Orton are what they should be. The other guys should be built as big before they get to those two. Punk was. Henry was. ADR wasn't, and neither have most of the heels they pushed.

Sheamus was jobbing to Goldust on ECW. A couple of months later and he's the top heel on Raw.

I don't think build matters as much as taking risks.

Just because their stupidity benefitted them in the end for once doesn't mean it wasn't stupidity.

[Wolf Hurricane]

Oct 6, 2011 12:09:24 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Oct 6, 2011 12:01:50 GMT -5 @jackiechan said:

The problem with ADR is that he has no real character behind him. He's a rich Mexican guy who shows off his money a little. That's it.

JBL at least had the whole racist, glad-handing dickhead schtick.

I honestly think ADR would be better as a babyface...his
mannerisms and personality suit it better.

I actually like that they're showing him as having a bad temper and being abusive towards his announcer under the whole happy rich guy act. That to me is more interesting than his Mexican JBL persona.

Hell I think when he blows up he's one of the scarier heels on the roster.

Definitely. Vicious Del Rio can get over very easily, especially when you consider that the WWE rarely books vicious heels, nowadays. Take Hell in a Cell, for instance; practically everything he did in that match was more notable than his entire first reign as champion (although, it was quite a short one to begin with...), between him locking Cena out of the cell and then taunting him, and whacking at Punk with that lead pipe to win the title. Imagine if that was the Del Rio that was holding the title in the first place. Better yet, imagine if that was how they booked him before he even entered the title scene.

Another thing: Why don't they play up his heritage more? For all the second and third generation superstars on their roster, I'd say his lineage adds the most to his character; if I'm not mistaken, the reason he's rich is because his father was the guy back in Mexico.

[Urethra Franklin]

Oct 6, 2011 13:30:57 GMT -5 Wolf Hurricane said:

Oct 6, 2011 12:09:24 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

I actually like that they're showing him as having a bad temper and being abusive towards his announcer under the whole happy rich guy act. That to me is more interesting than his Mexican JBL persona.

Hell I think when he blows up he's one of the scarier heels on the roster.

Definitely. Vicious Del Rio can get over very easily, especially when you consider that the WWE rarely books vicious heels, nowadays. Take Hell in a Cell, for instance; practically everything he did in that match was more notable than his entire first reign as champion (although, it was quite a short one to begin with...), between him locking Cena out of the cell and then taunting him, and whacking at Punk with that lead pipe to win the title. Imagine if that was the Del Rio that was holding the title in the first place. Better yet, imagine if that was how they booked him before he even entered the title scene.

Another thing: Why don't they play up his heritage more? For all the second and third generation superstars on their roster, I'd say his lineage adds the most to his character; if I'm not mistaken, the reason he's rich is because his father was the guy back in Mexico.

And if they're acknowledging Mistico, why not acknowledge Dos Caras?

[The OP]

They haven't talked about it in a while, but when he debuted they did talk about him coming from a "royal family" in Mexico and his relation to Mil Mascaras. The weird thing about Del Rio is that when he first arrived they booked him brilliantly, but somewhere along the line everything changed. I think it was losing to Edge at 'Mania, ever since then he's been portrayed as a coward who will run away from a fight. What happened to the Del Rio who stood face to face with a guy and said "you're gonna respect me or I'm gonna make you"? This was his debut against Mysterio where he proceeded to make him tap out in the middle of the ring in that night's main event. Where is THAT Alberto Del Rio? I want him back. That guy looked like a champion.

[jadison]

No offense...but who are you guys to disagree with Stone Cold Steve Austin on if a guy is ready or not? Not that it isn't your right or anything, its just that his opinion carries a hell of a lot more weight. Hell, if he says Del Rio needs a couple of years, I believe him.

Its akin to doubting el Dandy.

[The OP]

Normally I would agree completely (I still agree partly), but as far as I know Austin has never worked with Del Rio either. I've heard wrestlers say "how do you know how good a worker a guy is who you haven't worked with"? While it's true that I don't have the kind of eye for technique that someone like Austin would have, in terms of entertainment value I think he's as good as anyone on the roster. I just think he needs to be pushed as more of a legit tough guy, especially since he is one in real life. He's nothing like the Miz, for example, so it doesn't make sense to book him like he is.

[jadison]

Point well taken, I understand that. I happen to agree with Austin anyways, I like Del Rio but thought he needed a little more steady build to gain legitimacy instead of having it all thrown on him this year.

However, what's done is done. Now that he's been pushed, you can't just yank him back down the card. That would make it worse when they try to push him again, or if they just gave up on him completely.

[#RUDO Coco Del Rio]

Austin worked during a time when management had a little bit of foresight in building stars and had a concept of "steady build-up".

Del Rio is working during a time when management would throw shit on the wall and see what sticks.

As for ADR's character, I'd like him to be a rich, spoiled brat who throws vicious "tantrums". It would be an extension of who he is in real life, based on some reports. That's his way of politics. He thinks he's the best and he thinks he always has to get his way. He obviously doesn't have the promo ability to be some complicated manipulative heel so you have to keep things simple with this guy. I hate the cowardly heel, though. Unless you're someone as brilliant as Christian who could make that work, that role is just going to be a nail to the coffin of your career.

[JDviant]

I get the comparisons to JBL, but Del Rio still barely manages to come off as a heel to me outside of places like HiaC. his promos lack the bite JBL's did at getting people mad at him. He seems...too respectful? If I just had a reason to hate him all the time he'd be a total package.

[bpayton97]

Punk is the future guy for the WWE. I can understand Austin's point of Del Rio not being ready. Del Rio should have had a long reign as IC Champion last year.

[SAJ Forth]

Oct 6, 2011 12:05:46 GMT -5 Allie Kitsune said:

Just get him to stop saying Destiny, and have him go back to being the guy who acts like he's cheerful and grandstanding, while he's really a vicious bastard deep inside.

I like this idea.