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Post by steamboat1 on Mar 25, 2012 22:03:59 GMT -5
In-Ring Performance-Ricky Steamboat or Nick Bockwinkle Drawing ability-Hogan or Austin Mic Skills-Ric Flair or The Rock
Only guy that could do all of the above consistantly -The Undertaker
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Post by mysterious on Mar 25, 2012 22:59:05 GMT -5
In-Ring Performance-Ricky Steamboat or Nick Bockwinkle Drawing ability-Hogan or Austin Mic Skills-Ric Flair or The Rock Only guy that could do all of the above consistantly -The Undertaker The Undertaker's in ring performance has been declining for years. He only wrestles a few matches per year. He never has great drawing ability, and his mic skills were never good. He had a mystique similar to the Ultimate Warrior, and he was not as big a draw as him either.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Mar 25, 2012 23:57:45 GMT -5
In-Ring Performance-Ricky Steamboat or Nick Bockwinkle Drawing ability-Hogan or Austin Mic Skills-Ric Flair or The Rock Only guy that could do all of the above consistantly -The Undertaker Or Flair, or Savage, or (my pick) Austin. I need to go with Stone Cold here, because he could just do it all. Godly on the stick, could wrestle nearly any style well, had the charisma of 10 men, and WAS wrestling to many people in the 90's like Hogan was in the 80's.
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Post by flatsdomino on Mar 26, 2012 1:05:18 GMT -5
In-Ring Performance-Ricky Steamboat or Nick Bockwinkle Drawing ability-Hogan or Austin Mic Skills-Ric Flair or The Rock Only guy that could do all of the above consistantly -The Undertaker The Undertaker's in ring performance has been declining for years. He only wrestles a few matches per year. He never has great drawing ability, and his mic skills were never good. He had a mystique similar to the Ultimate Warrior, and he was not as big a draw as him either. Actually, his in-ring skills got better and better after his 2004 comeback, leading to 2006-2007 where he was doing honestly the best work of his career. Seriously, it was like all of a sudden the no-selling zombie guy became an agile-as-f*** MMA wrestling machine in the twilight of his career. I don't think it's ever happened before that someone went through such a late-period career renaissance as far as their in-ring performance. After that peak though, he plateaued in '08, during his feud with Edge and doing REALLY solid work with HHH, Big Show, Jeff Hardy and others. I remember him having an awesome match against FESTUS on Smackdown once, which isn't to slight Luke Gallows, but just to show how he was the "Shawn Michaels" of Smackdown for a while, putting on MOTN showcases with anyone. The WM 25 match with Shawn will probably go down as his greatest match of all time; it was also the point before he started to decline. After his return against Punk, it was hit-or-miss, eventually leading to him taking a once-a-year schedule. But he could still GO, until really very recently.
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Post by clashofchampains on Mar 26, 2012 8:15:14 GMT -5
Hogan was the best entertainer.
Lou Thiesz was the best technical wrestler.
Flair was the best mix of entertainer and technical wrestler.
The best answer would probably be someone that was a great talker, a great wrestler, someone that made a lot of money, someone that marked his time and someone that is considered legendary. All these things.
Closest to that is probably the Macho Man. And i'm not even that much of a fan, i'm going by logic.
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Post by mysterious on Mar 26, 2012 8:20:50 GMT -5
Hogan was the best entertainer. Lou Thiesz was the best technical wrestler. Flair was the best mix of entertainer and technical wrestler. The best answer would probably be someone that was a great talker, a great wrestler, someone that made a lot of money, someone that marked his time and someone that is considered legendary. All these things. Closest to that is probably the Macho Man. And i'm not even that much of a fan, i'm going by logic. OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH YYYYYYYEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHH! Rest In Peace.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by The OP on Mar 26, 2012 9:24:59 GMT -5
"Macho Man" Randy Savage. Excelled at everything that makes a pro wrestler entertaining and memorable. He was an innovator, and one of the most influential wrestlers of all time. Some of his moves like the flying elbow and flying double axe handle have been so often imitated that they are thought of as standard moves now. His influence as a storyteller can be seen all over current WWE with CM Punk using the flying elbow drop, or the similarity between Daniel Bryan's work with AJ to that of Savage and Elizabeth. His in-ring style, a mix of technical and high flying, has arguably become the preferred style in North American pro wrestling. Savage is one of the guys who showed up and changed everything. He is a recognizable person in general pop culture just like Hogan, The Rock, and Andre the Giant, but is thought of as a pro wrestler first, not an actor or celebrity. He is a hall of fame wrestler by any criteria, and his impact on the sport cannot be overstated.
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Post by clashofchampains on Mar 26, 2012 9:43:34 GMT -5
Strangely though, Macho has all these things but will always be overshadowed by Hogan and Flair.
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Post by mysterious on Mar 26, 2012 10:19:39 GMT -5
Strangely though, Macho has all these things but will always be overshadowed by Hogan and Flair. Hogan yes, Flair never. Savage was a bigger draw than Flair and had he wrestled in NWA instead of the WWE he would have been their star heel. Savage had a much larger fan base than Flair.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Mar 26, 2012 10:28:02 GMT -5
Strangely though, Macho has all these things but will always be overshadowed by Hogan and Flair. Hogan yes, Flair never. Savage was a bigger draw than Flair and had he wrestled in NWA instead of the WWE he would have been their star heel. Savage had a much larger fan base than Flair. I would argue that, if true, he had the larger fan base because he wrestled in the WWF. And I don't think he would have topped Flair in Crockett's territory anyway. I'm not knocking Savage, btw.
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Tiger Maskooo
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Post by Tiger Maskooo on Mar 26, 2012 10:35:12 GMT -5
Strangely though, Macho has all these things but will always be overshadowed by Hogan and Flair. Hogan yes, Flair never. Savage was a bigger draw than Flair and had he wrestled in NWA instead of the WWE he would have been their star heel. Savage had a much larger fan base than Flair. I don't neccessarly think savage will be overshadowed by flair but I don't think the notion that savage would be nwas top heel is well founded. If anything,I think like he was in wwe he would of been their star babyface probably spun out of the horsemen. But in nwa he never would of been quite as popular with that audience as flair was. Flair had a very special connection with those people. The fanbase wasn't as big as wwfs but the people that were there saw flair as their god.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2012 14:25:22 GMT -5
I'd just like to say that, when you look at every aspect of why someone is considered the GOAT, it's a real shame that Jake Roberts' name doesn't come up very often.
Hogan, Bret, Shawn, Savage and Flair are all great for different reasons, and you could make an excellent case as to why any of them are or aren't the best ever.
That said, Randy Savage would be my personal choice.
As far as mic skills, charisma, in-ring talent, working as a heel/face, presence, and the all-around "it factor," you could make an argument for Savage as #1 in every category, and you'd be hard pressed to find another wrestler who fits that criteria.
The only other wrestler you could maybe say that about is Flair, but I think Savage has him beat - and that's no knock to Flair at all.
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Post by clashofchampains on Mar 27, 2012 4:26:51 GMT -5
Strangely though, Macho has all these things but will always be overshadowed by Hogan and Flair. Hogan yes, Flair never. Savage was a bigger draw than Flair and had he wrestled in NWA instead of the WWE he would have been their star heel. Savage had a much larger fan base than Flair. I'm talking as far as people's perception. The magority of people always view Hogan and Flair as the top two guys. They dominated in the 80s, Hogan become known as the biggest draw of all time and Flair became known as the greatest wrestler. Macho had them both beat because of his versatility but it may never be recognized.
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Post by clashofchampains on Mar 27, 2012 4:40:26 GMT -5
I'd just like to say that, when you look at every aspect of why someone is considered the GOAT, it's a real shame that Jake Roberts' name doesn't come up very often. Hogan, Bret, Shawn, Savage and Flair are all great for different reasons, and you could make an excellent case as to why any of them are or aren't the best ever. That said, Randy Savage would be my personal choice. As far as mic skills, charisma, in-ring talent, working as a heel/face, presence, and the all-around "it factor," you could make an argument for Savage as #1 in every category, and you'd be hard pressed to find another wrestler who fits that criteria. The only other wrestler you could maybe say that about is Flair, but I think Savage has him beat - and that's no knock to Flair at all. I agree. Savage is another level because he could do all these things. Also people have mentioned Steve Austin and sure he was a great draw but it did not last long enough in my book. I would put him in the Sting level because Sting was the biggest draw in wrestling in 97 while Austin was the biggest draw in 1998 wich is roughly one year. And both did not become this popular because of their workrate, Austin's body had broken down and by 98 when he was at his height of success they were protecting him, giving him mostly short matchs. I view Sting like Undertaker as far as what he represent and his long-lasting career while having the success of a Austin as far as short length. For these things he should be considered as one of the greats but like the Rock the one element missing is one dimensional lmited in-ring ability. In my opinion I put Sting for example above HBK even if HBK was a far superior wrestler because if we say legendary I associate it more to Sting than Shawn. Sting is probably around Bret Hart level as far as greatness status.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by The OP on Mar 27, 2012 13:29:05 GMT -5
I'd say Savage is arguably the most influential as well. It's like I said, if you look at his mix of brawling, old school grappling, and innovative aerial attacks, he was the wrestler that just about every great modern day wrestler is trying to be. And this is all before you even start talking about what a great entertainer he was. Think about that; being arguably the most influential in-ring worker of the 20th Century isn't even what he's most famous for.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Mar 27, 2012 17:01:06 GMT -5
Gorgeous George. It was said way earlier but not much else about him. He was the prototype for this charisma stuff you guys talk about and he did it so well it changed the way ALL sports interviews and promos were handled not just wrestling. Mohammed Ali based his character on Gorgeous George and that influenced carried over to so many more. He created larger than life personas, flamboyance, arrogance, and so many other things that nobody had used before, all while still maintaining respect from wrestling purists like Bruno or Thesz, who didn't like characters. He was a heel people payed to see in an era when faces carried promotions.
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Post by clashofchampains on Mar 28, 2012 0:30:14 GMT -5
I'd say Savage is arguably the most influential as well. It's like I said, if you look at his mix of brawling, old school grappling, and innovative aerial attacks, he was the wrestler that just about every great modern day wrestler is trying to be. And this is all before you even start talking about what a great entertainer he was. Think about that; being arguably the most influential in-ring worker of the 20th Century isn't even what he's most famous for. He was definitly influencial. You look at the way wrestlers wrestle these days, it's a mix of wrestling and brawling that Savage was the best at doing. And guys like him were not known to try moves but he did it, he innovated constantly and it wasn't common back then. Wrestlers used to do mostly the same set of moves that all other were doing. And again these days you look at most of the wrestlers coming out, they all have their signature moves, they have to have imagination to keep up and that is all down to Macho.
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WWHHHD
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Post by WWHHHD on Mar 28, 2012 0:58:50 GMT -5
If you ask any of the top stars....
HOGAN
He made the most money and quite frankly he is quite entertaining.
If you ask me....
Hogan
The guy is/was great. I don't count whatever you call this current run in TNA. As Cornette says, he made his way as a star, take him out of that roll and it is a bad idea.
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Post by mauled on Mar 28, 2012 1:33:26 GMT -5
Gonna disagree with people who keep talking about how great Flair as I dont see it to me was little leauge and couldnt handle the Pemire Leauge. I first saw him when he came to the WF in 91. He was working with all the top guys at the time Hogan/Savage/Piper/Bret/Perfect etc and he flopped. From a draw stand point the set up matches/storyline for a main event with Hogan never took off which is why they never ran with it for wm8. From a match stand point (and the Flair spots always took me out of his matches) it got so bad Vince made him go out and re-do a whole match one time and that was with Savage for gawds sake! From Rumble 92 where he was put over by everyone (which HBK did a similar moveset and did it better in the same match) to Rumble 93 where he was just a lower midcard guy says it all for his WWF career. Then when he was back in WCW as soon as Hogan/Razor/Diesel all come in he is back down the card. I think the only reason his "legend" status came in was returning to the WE and sucking up to Trips and Shawn. He then went and did the same with Hogan which is why he was on his flop of a tour and then TNA.
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Post by clashofchampains on Apr 1, 2012 3:31:28 GMT -5
Gonna disagree with people who keep talking about how great Flair as I dont see it to me was little leauge and couldnt handle the Pemire Leauge. I first saw him when he came to the WF in 91. He was working with all the top guys at the time Hogan/Savage/Piper/Bret/Perfect etc and he flopped. From a draw stand point the set up matches/storyline for a main event with Hogan never took off which is why they never ran with it for wm8. From a match stand point (and the Flair spots always took me out of his matches) it got so bad Vince made him go out and re-do a whole match one time and that was with Savage for gawds sake! From Rumble 92 where he was put over by everyone (which HBK did a similar moveset and did it better in the same match) to Rumble 93 where he was just a lower midcard guy says it all for his WWF career. Then when he was back in WCW as soon as Hogan/Razor/Diesel all come in he is back down the card. I think the only reason his "legend" status came in was returning to the WE and sucking up to Trips and Shawn. He then went and did the same with Hogan which is why he was on his flop of a tour and then TNA. Flair didn't need to go into HHH's good grace to be known as a legend. People always said Flair was the Greatest ever since I started watching wrestling and reading the mags and talking to other wrestling fans. For most wrestling fans he still is. Also you basing his work for what he did in the WWF is stupid. Hell all these guys from Piper, Hogan, Flair, Macho, all their best days were behind them. You are suppose to judge guys by their best work and none of what happened in the early 90s were their best stuff. As for Vince making Flair redo matchs that's because Flair came from a place where guys were not rehearsing everything, it was not all choregraphed and yea some would make mistakes but it was more real, to wrestle you had to wrestle by your own means. That's what Flair has over Macho I guess in that Macho was pretty insecure and all the moves had to be planned beforehand when you wrestled him. Flair wrestled 365 days a year in the 80s, making money, having great wrestling matchs every day all over the World. Hogan wrestled about what, five times a month at his height of popularity? People do not realise how it has been to be Flair and maintain a level of Greatness like he did day in, day out.
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