Vince hates the IWC/hardcore wrestling fans?

[corndog]

So supposedly Wrestlmania was mainly booked by Vince and possibly his swan song as some have said. But what I noticed is ultimately Vince gave the hardcore fans what they wanted, CM Punk continuing to be world champion and most of all, the Rock winning at Wrestlemania. However, lower on the card Bryan got squashed by Sheamus and Ryder was made out to look like a fool.

At Wrestlemania and the last year leading up to it, Vince has given the internet/hardcore fans what they wanted. He has allowed CM Punk to become a top star, Daniel Bryan has been world champion and for a split second he even pushed Zach Ryder after creating a ton of buzz on the internet. It has become more than apparent the voices have been heard and that these so called "10 percenters" make up much more than 10% of the US WWE fanbase.

But at Wrestlemania he also gave us a huge middle finger with Daniel Bryan and to a lesser extent Zach Ryder. I include Zach Ryder because he made a name for himself on the internet, not by the means of WWE television. It just seems like Vince's way of saying, "I will ultimately give you what you want, but I don't like it and here is how I feel. " Did anyone else get that impression?

[Cronant]

When you begin to look at guys solely as "IWC" guys then you have a problem.

CM Punk is a popular face. Daniel Bryan is a relatively new weasel heel. Zack Ryder is a midcard fun babyface. They'll get booked differently.

At some point, there just guys on the roster like everyone else. Miz went through tough shit just like any IWC guy may. Same with Drew.

[sportatorium]

I think it is more "booking the chalk" than anything else. Wrestlemania is usually where babyfaces win. Vince isn't stopping the streak or having Rock lose in Miami. The only heels winning were Kane (random and toothless) and Team Johnny to advance tv storylines over babyfaces that are announcers or comedy acts in Vince's eyes.

I don't think he thinks about the IWC for a minute when putting the show together-

[Deleted]

The notion of Vince hating the IWC/hardcore fanbase is silly. He probably just never thought that its where the money is. However, that's obviously changing and WWE is on it. They have to keep their mass appeal while tending to a very vocal (and growing) part of their fanbase, and I think the balance lately has been excellent.

[TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out]

IIRC, Vince himself considers himself a hardcore wrestling fan. He just puts good business first when booking, like any sane and logical businessman would do. He doesn't have any grudges against any subset of fans, he has always just booked to what he believes is best for him and his investors.

[The Beast Disincarnate]

Ryder is a Santino like character, you know he's gonna be kicked in the nads a few more times in his career, have his crotch teared, lose to woman...that sort of things.

[paywindah]

Apr 4, 2012 12:00:38 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

IIRC, Vince himself considers himself a hardcore wrestling fan. He just puts good business first when booking, like any sane and logical businessman would do. He doesn't have any grudges against any subset of fans, he has always just booked to what he believes is best for him and his investors.

Which shows that he is losing touch with what would make the most money for him and his investors, especially as he gets older. He has left so much money on the table with big angles over the years, instead going for hotshotting, quick-payoff stunt booking that doesn't work long term.

[amaron]

The gap between non-internet fan and IWC is closing rather quickly IMO.

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

I doubt Vince does, or ever did have it out for the diehards. I do think his #1 priority over the years has been tailoring WWE to non-fans, which is probably why he's dabbled in so many non-wrestling ventures and reach-outs to Hollywood, with varying degrees of success.

As for the constant yo-yo booking of newer stars, I still blame that on fallout from Lesnar bailing in 2004- it feels like WWE wants to crown the next generation and also wants to establish and appease the proven draws at the same time, which isn't always possible. It's probably a lot more complicated than them allegedly thinking "like who we tell you to like".

[corndog]

Apr 4, 2012 12:09:47 GMT -5 amaron said:

The gap between non-internet fan and IWC is closing rather quickly IMO.

The gap has never been that big to begin with, it's really just young adult male wrestling fans in general. The only real difference is we are more obsessed and will spend extra time looking it up online and spend more time talking about it. They are also more likely to stop watching when they are disatisfied, where we will complain about it online and continue to watch. Vince's problem time and time again is trying to recreate the 80s and make wrestling a family oriented product that is massively succesful. He tried it in the mid-90s and it failed miserably.

I actually talked about wrestling with a male co-worker and he admitting to loving WWE in the 90s/early 00s with the Rock,DX and Austin, but doesn't watch anymore because he hates Cena. Most adult males don't like Cena, internet nerds(the term may not be endearing, but it's what we are) or not.

Vince is starting to realize he needs to keep the adult male fans happy and ultimately has to give them someone to cheer for to build interest. His problem has been giving them what they want and not alienating females and family. This market has grown quite a bit for them in the last few years, which I am sure makes them happy. The problem is overall viewership is down because the male fans have been alienated and many have just tuned out. If you look at the numbers from the 90s, the male 18-35 audience was a huge majority of the people tuning in and even if you gain a significant amount of female and younger fans losing a majority of the male adult audience would still put them well behind.

I don't know if Vince hates the IWC/male fans, but because of how vocal and opinionated they are, it makes it very difficult for him to book a family friendly show. The male audience loves anti-heros and kids want a superhero. The problem is Vince is trying to mix action movies and Disney and it just doesn't work.

[Andrew is Good]

Ummm, no. Vince booked that match like this because he was thinking, heel wins title in somewhat cheap manner, mistreats his girlfriend, sneaks out victories all the time, so he should get his comeuppance by losing quickly. That was the logic behind it. His logic is fine, it's just at Wrestlemania, and people are watching World Title matches and not expecting 18 second squashes, especially right out of the gate. Wrestlemania has been built up where these classic matches take place, and this 18 second squash annoyed people, on top of that, Bryan's match was pushed off last year.

I don't think Vince hates Daniel Bryan, he just wants him to be a heel. He's gonna have to change his mind, and Vince loves his money, so he'll probably start pushing him as a baby face soon. Vince's logic would have been better for an episode of Smackdown, or another pay per view down the line maybe.

[Allie Kitsune]

I kind of feel like it would help if the more vocal internet hardcores would stop looking at guys who made the jump from RoH as "outsiders" no matter how long they stay with the WWE.

[Cela]

He doesn't, he just wants them to have general appeal and profitable tendencies before he gives them the megapush.

[Bo Rida]

It's been stated that Vince likes the "magic" of wrestling which is harder to create with online fans.

Apr 4, 2012 12:40:50 GMT -5 corndog said:

Apr 4, 2012 12:09:47 GMT -5 amaron said:

The gap between non-internet fan and IWC is closing rather quickly IMO.

The gap has never been that big to begin with, it's really just young adult male wrestling fans in general. The only real difference is we are more obsessed and will spend extra time looking it up online and spend more time talking about it. They are also more likely to stop watching when they are disatisfied, where we will complain about it online and continue to watch. Vince's problem time and time again is trying to recreate the 80s and make wrestling a family oriented product that is massively succesful. He tried it in the mid-90s and it failed miserably.

I actually talked about wrestling with a male co-worker and he admitting to loving WWE in the 90s/early 00s with the Rock,DX and Austin, but doesn't watch anymore because he hates Cena. Most adult males don't like Cena, internet nerds(the term may not be endearing, but it's what we are) or not.

Vince is starting to realize he needs to keep the adult male fans happy and ultimately has to give them someone to cheer for to build interest. His problem has been giving them what they want and not alienating females and family. This market has grown quite a bit for them in the last few years, which I am sure makes them happy. The problem is overall viewership is down because the male fans have been alienated and many have just tuned out. If you look at the numbers from the 90s, the male 18-35 audience was a huge majority of the people tuning in and even if you gain a significant amount of female and younger fans losing a majority of the male adult audience would still put them well behind.

I don't know if Vince hates the IWC/male fans, but because of how vocal and opinionated they are, it makes it very difficult for him to book a family friendly show. The male audience loves anti-heros and kids want a superhero. The problem is Vince is trying to mix action movies and Disney and it just doesn't work.

Good points, I'll just add that adult males create a better atmosphere which can greatly enhance a show as we saw this week. Something like last years MITB title match wouldn't be the same with a dead crowd.
The counterpoint is that they are more likely to react vocally if they're not happy with what they are seeing and may swear which doesn’t help that family-friendly image.

It’s a tough balance but again they’ve been doing a good job recenty.

[Allie Kitsune]

Apr 4, 2012 13:04:38 GMT -5 Cela said:

He doesn't, he just wants them to have general appeal and profitable tendencies before he gives them the megapush.

Pretty much. Punk didn't get his Main Event Face push until he'd been around long enough to be cemented as a "WWE" guy and was on his second contract.

[xCompackx]

Things like this remind me of when he partnered with ECW back in the day. I really don't think WWE doesn't care when people want to see someone succeed, it's just when you have to satisfy MILLIONS of people on a weekly basis, people get pushed aside.

[Pooh Carlson]

Apr 4, 2012 12:04:08 GMT -5 paywindah said:

Apr 4, 2012 12:00:38 GMT -5 TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out said:

IIRC, Vince himself considers himself a hardcore wrestling fan. He just puts good business first when booking, like any sane and logical businessman would do. He doesn't have any grudges against any subset of fans, he has always just booked to what he believes is best for him and his investors.

Which shows that he is losing touch with what would make the most money for him and his investors, especially as he gets older. He has left so much money on the table with big angles over the years, instead going for hotshotting, quick-payoff stunt booking that doesn't work long term.

Please. If Bryan didn't lose in 18 seconds, he wouldn't have gotten the massive reaction THE REST OF THE NIGHT. Maybe it wasn't the intent, but the fans are getting behind him to the point where its just about to be a license to print money (as soon as they make the YES! tshirts).

I doubt Vince has EVER though "I'd better appease the IWC." He probably doesn't even know there's a term IWC. Punk has the title because he's getting reactions from the live crowd. Ryder got pushed cause he was getting "We Want Ryder" chants and he wasn't even on the card. Bryan got pushed because he was getting reactions from the live crowd. Vince doesn't surf message boards. Vince hears who gets cheered in the building they're in in any particular night.

[Allie Kitsune]

Apr 4, 2012 13:17:54 GMT -5 Pooh Carlson said:

Please. If Bryan didn't lose in 18 seconds, he wouldn't have gotten the massive reaction THE REST OF THE NIGHT. Maybe it wasn't the intent, but the fans are getting behind him to the point where its just about to be a license to print money (as soon as they make the YES! tshirts).

I think he would have. There was a report (I believe from another board member who went to the show) that the YES chant had taken a life of its own in the crowd hours before the show even started, and Bryan's the face of the meme.

So yeah, he would have.

[corndog]

Apr 4, 2012 13:10:50 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

It's been stated that Vince likes the "magic" of wrestling which is harder to create with online fans.

Apr 4, 2012 12:40:50 GMT -5 corndog said:

The gap has never been that big to begin with, it's really just young adult male wrestling fans in general. The only real difference is we are more obsessed and will spend extra time looking it up online and spend more time talking about it. They are also more likely to stop watching when they are disatisfied, where we will complain about it online and continue to watch. Vince's problem time and time again is trying to recreate the 80s and make wrestling a family oriented product that is massively succesful. He tried it in the mid-90s and it failed miserably.

I actually talked about wrestling with a male co-worker and he admitting to loving WWE in the 90s/early 00s with the Rock,DX and Austin, but doesn't watch anymore because he hates Cena. Most adult males don't like Cena, internet nerds(the term may not be endearing, but it's what we are) or not.

Vince is starting to realize he needs to keep the adult male fans happy and ultimately has to give them someone to cheer for to build interest. His problem has been giving them what they want and not alienating females and family. This market has grown quite a bit for them in the last few years, which I am sure makes them happy. The problem is overall viewership is down because the male fans have been alienated and many have just tuned out. If you look at the numbers from the 90s, the male 18-35 audience was a huge majority of the people tuning in and even if you gain a significant amount of female and younger fans losing a majority of the male adult audience would still put them well behind.

I don't know if Vince hates the IWC/male fans, but because of how vocal and opinionated they are, it makes it very difficult for him to book a family friendly show. The male audience loves anti-heros and kids want a superhero. The problem is Vince is trying to mix action movies and Disney and it just doesn't work.

Good points, I'll just add that adult males create a better atmosphere which can greatly enhance a show as we saw this week. Something like last years MITB title match wouldn't be the same with a dead crowd.
The counterpoint is that they are more likely to react vocally if they're not happy with what they are seeing and may swear which doesn’t help that family-friendly image.

It’s a tough balance but again they’ve been doing a good job recenty.

I agree with them doing a good job lately. It kind of reminds me of 1996 when the WWE was starting to transition from the New Generation to the Attitude Era. I really enjoy the crowd reaction this last week, it reminds me of watching Raw in the 90s. I don't have a problem with family-based entertainment, but the male heavy crowds tend to be more vocal and energtic. The female and kid audiences tend to only cheer for the top stars and don't give much of a reaction to anything else.