Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,118
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 8, 2011 16:30:22 GMT -5
I don't think your feelins on the Burning Hammer are that weird, BURY_US. That move is way too ugly to throw out on a nightly basis. It should be an absolute desperation, last ditch finish for anybody. It's too legitimately dangerous for it not to be. Exactly right? The fact that Kobashi has used it 7 times in his career makes it look like a billion dollar deal. You would NEVER get a WWE guy using a move that scarcely. Closest I can think of would be something like Cena's top rope AA/FU. He doesn't do it often, and usually only seems to if he can't pick up the win with his regular finishers, which is more often lately. Still, at least they keep that sparingly enough, people getting out of his.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Sept 8, 2011 16:36:05 GMT -5
I think the reason for the finisher overkill is because it's really hard to create nearfalls these days without using finishers. The only other near fall that fans really buy anymore are surprise pins, and sometimes surprise counters. It's like how Foley said in one of his books that nobody was buying the false finishes in his HIAC match with HHH because they had not exited the cage yet. The crowd knows what to expect, and knows that the main event isn't going to end on a superplex or something.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,118
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 8, 2011 16:40:15 GMT -5
I think the reason for the finisher overkill is because it's really hard to create nearfalls these days without using finishers. The only other near fall that fans really buy anymore are surprise pins, and sometimes surprise counters. It's like how Foley said in one of his books that nobody was buying the false finishes in his HIAC match with HHH because they had not exited the cage yet. The crowd knows what to expect, and knows that the main event isn't going to end on a superplex or something. That is true, and partly why I wish matches would end on signature moves or surprise DDTs, etc, sometimes. Just to keep people guessing a little more.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Sept 8, 2011 16:55:04 GMT -5
There are times when the little moves get good nearfalls. I know Morrison/Del Rio had a few on that RAW match, and Cena's big legdrop had the crowd going too. Both of those were on RAW though.
The best one recently was Ziggler/Bryan at Bragging Rights where Ziggler got a legit reaction for a nearfall off a regular fireman's carry.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,986
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Post by chazraps on Sept 8, 2011 17:41:14 GMT -5
As someone who only watches WWE, I think finisher overkill hasn't been that big of a problem in recent years. In 2003, I'm pretty sure every single pay-per-view had this happen at least once. That was probably the worst year for it, especially in feuds involving Kurt Angle.
On the plus side, kicking out of a finisher but still losing a match really seemed to make a guy in the fans' eyes quick back then.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Sept 8, 2011 20:12:15 GMT -5
I thought there was the beginning of a backlash against finisher abuse at WM this year when the crowd didn't so much as nudge forward in their seats when Taker hit the first Tombstone, because they didn't buy that HHH would be beaten by just one. Ditto with Hunter's first pedigree, and even his second. There was more heat from the crowd behind those pedigrees, but not the kind you'd expect them to have. Of course, those factors may simply have been a byproduct of the crowd knowing it was too early in the match for any of those moments to be the finish, in which case, if you're going to do multiple finishers, use them closer to the end of the match so people actually buy the near-falls. Don't use them as wear-down moves to try and convince the crowd the match has been more grueling/longer than it seems. Of course, by the end of Taker/HHH, the crowd was eating the finisher abuse right up. I thought that Hunter's tombstone was THE END, which shows you exactly how finisher abuse can work if done right. There's absolutely no way I should have believed that Hunter would go over Taker at WM, killing the streak with Taker's own finisher. But that nearfall damn near gave me a heart attack. And the way the crowd just EXPLODED when Taker kicked out? Awesome. Not as awesome as when HBK kicked out of the Tombstone the first time at WM25, because it was late enough in the match and clever enough a counter into the Tombstone that everybody bought that the match was over. THAT is another clever way to use finisher abuse. But I didn't like the WMX-7 overkill, even though that's one of my favorite matches ever. I just thought it was too excessive. Generally, however, finisher abuse doesn't bug me if it's once in a while. It bugs me in every day scenarios, like Orton kicking out of a Zig-Zag on the floor during some random match on Raw, or Edge kicking out of the Swagger Bomb in an unannounced, impromptu PPV match with hardly any heat. But if done correctly, kicking out of finishers can add SO much to a match, especially if those finishers have been well-built and well-protected. unless we're talking a falls count anywhere match I can believe kicking out of a finish done on the floor for the amount of time it takes both men to recover and be gotten back int he ring
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,097
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Sept 8, 2011 20:24:25 GMT -5
Agreed, I didn't particularly enjoy the Taker/Trips match because of this exact reason. Even Cena/Punk matches have been like this. *edit* A great example is Kane and the Tombstone. Granted his knee issues and all (or so I've heard), when he brings that out, you're done son, no kicking out. There isn't a lot of finishers like that nower days. I agree with that if you're talking about Cena/Punk II and especiallu Cena/Punk III. But I think they got the false finishes and kicking out of finishers right in Cena/Punk I.
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