Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,599
|
Post by Burst on May 22, 2012 20:42:13 GMT -5
Another question for people that know about the territory era.
Were any of the territories noted for having a safer style or a stiffer style than the others? Sort of like how Japan in general is regarded as stiffer in general. Or were there any territories with a higher percentage of dangerous moves like piledrivers? I know in a lot of promotions like Memphis and Mexico the piledriver was used sparingly and treated like death, yet in early WWF it's a routine mid-match move despite the danger.
Granted, I know in general there were a lot less high-risk moves in the territory era, but that still didn't stop guys from stiffing each other.
EDIT: As an addendum after reading the first response, which territories also carried the most risk of rowdy fans or fans wanting to shank the heels in the parking lot or stuff like that?
|
|
|
Post by Crusty Ruffles on May 22, 2012 20:57:57 GMT -5
In the territory days, the danger was mostly from the fans as opposed to the talent.
Everyone avoided Puerto Rico for a while after Brody, but that's obvious.
|
|
|
Post by Andrew is Good on May 22, 2012 21:20:20 GMT -5
World Class seemed pretty dangerous in hindsight, with the preposterous amount of people dead from that territory. Puerto Rico obviously, I hear it's still not the safest.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on May 22, 2012 21:30:01 GMT -5
Wrestling-wise, Championship Wrestling from Florida had a lot of stiff workers. WCCW was pretty tame in-ring, but of course, the real danger was in the lifestyles. AWA had to be one of the safest.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on May 22, 2012 21:36:09 GMT -5
a lot of wrestlers didn't like Memphis
|
|
|
Post by Manute Bol on May 22, 2012 21:56:50 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Stampede would be considered one of the more violent.
Wrestlers were so tough and out of their minds back then, plus society was so much more lax in general, that they all sound pretty crazy to me.
|
|
|
Post by seth82 on May 22, 2012 22:29:30 GMT -5
Southwest Championship Wrestling was pretty violent at times
|
|
NOwave
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,735
|
Post by NOwave on May 22, 2012 22:32:39 GMT -5
True, but the reason they didn't like Memphis was because of the pay, primarily. Prior to 1978 under Welch and Gulas, Memphis was notorious for paying badly. It got a little better under Jerry Jarrett after 1978, but never paid like the AWA or WWWF. There just wasn't much money in the Memphis territory in general. This was (and still is, to some degree) a relatively poor, uneducated area. The average ticket price in the 1970s was 3 dollars. You heard that right-3 dollars. The market simply would not bear a higher price than that.
Memphis was also noted for being the most outrageous and creative territory for a long time. Crazy characters like Dr Frank, Christmas Creature, Kimala, and many others originated in Memphis. Joe Leduc intentionally sliced his arm open with an axe live on Saturday morning TV before an audience of over 300,000, many of which were children. There were anti-semitic, anti-asian, anti-almost anything else(except black, which was the majority of the audience) comments heard regularly that would be unheard of today.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on May 22, 2012 23:02:15 GMT -5
True, but the reason they didn't like Memphis was because of the pay, primarily. Prior to 1978 under Welch and Gulas, Memphis was notorious for paying badly. It got a little better under Jerry Jarrett after 1978, but never paid like the AWA or WWWF. There just wasn't much money in the Memphis territory in general. This was (and still is, to some degree) a relatively poor, uneducated area. The average ticket price in the 1970s was 3 dollars. You heard that right-3 dollars. The market simply would not bear a higher price than that. Memphis was also noted for being the most outrageous and creative territory for a long time. Crazy characters like Dr Frank, Christmas Creature, Kimala, and many others originated in Memphis. Joe Leduc intentionally sliced his arm open with an axe live on Saturday morning TV before an audience of over 300,000, many of which were children. There were anti-semitic, anti-asian, anti-almost anything else(except black, which was the majority of the audience) comments heard regularly that would be unheard of today. I know Bret mentioned in his book (and I've heard other wrestlers say this as well) that the rings sucked and the wrestlers were hard to work with in Memphis
|
|
El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,739
|
Post by El Pollo Guerrera on May 23, 2012 0:58:56 GMT -5
I remember hearing (on a DVD, and I'm pretty sure it was a Jim Cornette story) a story about the Samoan fans who would watch wrestling in the LA area. The wrestlers were so scared of them that they if they were to win any match against a Samoan wrestler, it would be the last match on the show and the wrestlers would be out of the building without showering or changing, before the fans got to them. The wrestlers would eventually start teaching the Samoan fans about the business so that they wouldn't get killed.
|
|
|
Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on May 23, 2012 9:01:03 GMT -5
Puerto Rico, for the obvious reasons. and that's assuming most of the stories about Victor Quinones are bullshit.
|
|
|
Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on May 23, 2012 10:32:34 GMT -5
Wrestling-wise, Championship Wrestling from Florida had a lot of stiff workers. WCCW was pretty tame in-ring, but of course, the real danger was in the lifestyles. AWA had to be one of the safest. World Class was actually pretty stiff. No, they didn't do a lot of highspots or head drops, but wrestling in Texas on the whole was generally pretty stiff. Gary Hart said in a situation like the spot where a guy is sent to the ropes, the other ducks to throw him, but he pulls up and kicks him, the guy would be encouraged to leave the marks of his boot laces on the guy. I imagine things could have got dangerous easily in Memphis. They were using barbed wire even back then, and something like the Tupelo concession stand brawl could get out of hand in a hurry. But I've never really heard anything about a lot of injuries. As far as poor rings go, St. Louis. They hadn't changed the ring since the '30s, when a world title change took place there. The ring was apparently like a hard wood floor and nobody wanted to take bumps in it. That's how Harley Race made a name for himself. He'd take the bumps in St. Louis that no one else would. As far as the fans go, in the kayfabe era, it was pretty much dangerous everywhere. Bobby Heenan was shot at in Chicago while working in the AWA. Blackjack Mulligan got sliced with a knife soaked in pig fat in New York and ended up with a bad infection. Gary Hart said one of the towns in the Carolinas had fans who would bring fishing lures tied to card string and would try to "catch" the heels as they walked to the ring. Freddie Blassie had acid poured on him as well as suffering damage to one of his eyes when a fan threw a hard boiled egg (some have said it was frozen) and hit him right in the eye. Fans in Cleveland would throw whatever they could get their hands on - shoes and a full Vaseline jar are some of the things I've heard. Puerto Rico was another one where they loved to throw stuff. I've heard stories of kids selling rocks outside the stadium, as well as fans who would piss on a blade and go after somebody. My home area of east Tennessee-Kentucky was bad for knife-wielding fans. I've seen that even in my lifetime, and when I was working shows around here, I always kept a switchblade in my jacket pocket. Ole Anderson was damn near killed here when an old man stabbed him in the chest. Local legend Ron Wright was cut and stabbed on several occasions, and recalled being shot at in at least a couple of incidents. He used to fly a small plane to some of the Kentucky shows, and one night the fans beat him to the airstrip and burned his plane to the ground. In the Midnight Express Scrapbook, Jim Cornette mentioned that Wright "probably had more heat per capita than anyone in the business." He's almost forgotten now because he never really left the area and almost no footage of the territory exists.
|
|
|
Post by Drillbit Taylor on May 23, 2012 12:36:04 GMT -5
Mid South seemed to be tame outside of a couple of stiff fights.
|
|
|
Post by norsisclouds on May 23, 2012 14:11:09 GMT -5
I don't have much to contribute, but really interesting thread. Especially the info on Memphis. I guess Jerry Lawler, big star that he was actually was one of the few to get paid pretty well.
|
|
|
Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on May 23, 2012 16:57:18 GMT -5
I don't have much to contribute, but really interesting thread. Especially the info on Memphis. I guess Jerry Lawler, big star that he was actually was one of the few to get paid pretty well. the way I hear it him and Jerry Jarrett were the ONLY guys in Memphis who got paid well. those knife-wielding fan stories are pretty crazy. I just don't get it. like... do MMA fans do that kind of shit if the guy they're cheering for loses? "oh no the guy I like lost to the guy I don't like in a sports event- time to sharpen my shank!"
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,122
|
Post by Mozenrath on May 23, 2012 17:03:40 GMT -5
After reading this, I could not be happier the territory system died.
|
|
|
Post by Bone Daddy on May 23, 2012 18:48:37 GMT -5
I know that some of the territories were full of uneducated people, but did they really believe it was so real that they would go after people with knifes?
Did they go after the other teams QB with a knife too?
|
|
nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,725
|
Post by nisidhe on May 23, 2012 21:50:42 GMT -5
The primary argument for Stampede would be their regular exchanges of talent with wrestlers from Japan and the UK, and Stu's frequent practice of letting his boys (not just those named Hart) travel extensively throughout the territories and learn the different styles. The training regimen at home was no picnic either, but dagnabbit, when one was successful there, one could work anywhere and be accepted. However, as we know too well, many of the stars created by the Stampede system are no longer around.
|
|
|
Post by thetower52 on May 24, 2012 2:11:33 GMT -5
The reason that heels got attacked isn't just because they beat the face it's because the heel is making the fans hate him with every word he says mma guys dont go for that type of heat or heat in genreal
|
|
|
Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on May 24, 2012 10:23:06 GMT -5
After reading this, I could not be happier the territory system died. I don't really think the territory system is to blame for that. If anything, kayfabe is to blame for it. The two are independent of one another. Hell, I remember years ago, watching HBO and seeing a live riot because Andrew Golota hit Riddick Bowe with some flagrant low blows. Imagine if, after beating Frank Mir and delivering his post fight interview, Brock Lesnar shoved the interviewer aside, walked over to Mir and laid him out with a sucker punch. Obvious repercussions aside, it's not hard to imagine there being a situation with some fans. Present something as a legitimate contest, especially where the contestants are in small numbers (1 on 1, 2 on 2, etc.), make every effort to make the people paying to see it love one and hate the other, then have the one they hate do something vicious, screw the guy they love, or run away and be a chicken shit after talking a big game and pulling some crap, it's not that surprising. You still hear about fights at school sporting events. And it's not always parents taking something involving their kid too seriously. I'm not saying it was a good thing that incidents like that happened, btw. I've been on record for a while as saying there are a lot of things about wrestling that I wish were more like they were in those days, but that isn't one of them. As a side note, a Ron Wright story from Ole Anderson's book: Ole and Gene had came in for some shows (perhaps the same series that included the incident where Ole was stabbed) and were in the dressing room. Suddenly the crowd is making a hell of a lot noise, even in comparison to the usual hot crowd. Ole said they peeked out to see what was going on and saw Ron and Don Wright brawling with their opponents through the crowd. Fans are taking shots at them and a cop is following Ron, trying to hit him with his stick. Ron then grabs the house mic and informs everyone that there isn't a jail in Tennessee that can hold him. Ole looked at Gene and asked, "What the hell is this?"
|
|