PrinceD
Unicron
WI MADE
Posts: 2,511
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Post by PrinceD on Oct 22, 2011 11:36:04 GMT -5
I’m struggling to understand Bret’s point in that first video. The scenario he’s describing is simply the nature of the business, isn’t it? If a guy wins the belt in November, everyone naturally looks towards Wrestlemania as the point where he would drop the belt to the next guy (although less so now days due to shorter title reigns). Could he not just enjoy that title reign? There would have been plenty of guys who would have jumped to be in that position (admittedly they may not have been as capable). Did he not think HBK was worthy of replacing him as champion? His point may become clearer when seeing the whole thing but that short clip suggests what a lot of people have been saying – Bret’s ego problems were as big as HBK’s. Hit it right on the head. Bret just comes off as being his whiny self.
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queenbee
Don Corleone
bow down to the queen :)
Posts: 1,633
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Post by queenbee on Oct 22, 2011 14:15:19 GMT -5
The uploader has not made this video available to your country
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Post by preferable on Oct 22, 2011 14:40:48 GMT -5
maybe I'm misinterpreting what Bret's problem was. I think his problem was they didn't really build up the match as HBK vs the Hitman. Instead it was Shawn Michaels living out his life long dream. So he, as the champ and man whose supposed to pass the torch, was treated as an afterthought during the entire build to Wrestlemania. There'd have been a reason why he was treated as an afterthought though. Plenty other guys over the years FAR more over than Bret ever got, didn't get a sniff of the title.
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Post by noleafclover1980 on Oct 22, 2011 15:59:36 GMT -5
Back on the subject of whether Bret and Shawn are legit friends now, I saw an interview w/ Bret where he said he was very wary of Shawn's intentions at first... but that he really did change and he considers him a friend now.
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JDviant
Unicron
XB1 username: lil giant robot
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Post by JDviant on Oct 22, 2011 18:27:58 GMT -5
maybe I'm misinterpreting what Bret's problem was. I think his problem was they didn't really build up the match as HBK vs the Hitman. Instead it was Shawn Michaels living out his life long dream. So he, as the champ and man whose supposed to pass the torch, was treated as an afterthought during the entire build to Wrestlemania. I agree, since there's other material (such as Bret's dvd) where he's critical to the build-up itself and speaks out about how its being portrayed.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Oct 22, 2011 18:28:20 GMT -5
I’m struggling to understand Bret’s point in that first video. The scenario he’s describing is simply the nature of the business, isn’t it? If a guy wins the belt in November, everyone naturally looks towards Wrestlemania as the point where he would drop the belt to the next guy (although less so now days due to shorter title reigns). Could he not just enjoy that title reign? There would have been plenty of guys who would have jumped to be in that position (admittedly they may not have been as capable). Did he not think HBK was worthy of replacing him as champion? His point may become clearer when seeing the whole thing but that short clip suggests what a lot of people have been saying – Bret’s ego problems were as big as HBK’s. Hit it right on the head. Bret just comes off as being his whiny self. After watching the entire doc, in the clip Bret DOES come off as whiny...but when it's put in context it makes a LOT more sense. I don't want to spoil anything but basically the crux of the issue is basically both HBK and Bret started Mick Foley'ing each other. They started having issues (really, really minor things) with each other and instead of voicing their issues they kept it inside and let it eat and eat and eat at themselves till they legitimately hated each other and this part was just one of those times where Bret, instead of voicing an opinion, just kept it buried and let it continue eating at him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2011 18:29:04 GMT -5
I don't think it's fair to say "shut up and live with it". There's nothing wrong in being confident in your abilities and feeling you deserve more. Bret Hart did everything that was asked of him, the only time he ever really caused a ruckus was building to up to Montreal. He still put Michaels over huge and worked awesomely with other members of the kliq in spite of his reservations. He's a guy who worked hard to get to where he was, knew he had the skills to back it up and felt like he was under appreciated. Those feelings never affected his work so I'd say let him have those feelings. I don't deny he worked hard but the entertainment industry isn't a democratic thing. People don't become 'the guy' just because it's their turn or they've waited long enough or they've worked hard at it. You don't become Elvis and the Beatles just through it being 'owed' to you. It just...happens. Some people are able to draw people in and others are not. Bret only got the position he had because post-steroid investigation a lot of the guys had left. It wasn't as if he got the spot through ploughing through a particularly strong group. He didn't become a 'break out' star on a card with Savage, Hogan, Roberts, Piper, Flair, Warrior. He was just given a chance when Vince literally had nothing else left as a viable option. Even then it wasn't for the lack of trying to find them. Just look at how retrospectively DESPERATE the whole Lex Luger thing was. In 1994 it wasn't that Vince wanted Bret the champion - he had just completely ran out of other options. I don't exactly disagree with these points, all I'm saying is I don't think it's fair to fault Bret Hart for being disappointed with that reality. People label him bitter, but I think that bitterness towards the system really drove him to do some just awesome things in the business so it's really not a bad thing. If his attitude was that of "well, WWE won't ever let me enjoy my time at the top so why bother" we wouldn't have Bret vs. Austin, the Canada vs. America feud, just the multitude of awesome matches that Bret's put on for the sake of earning that WWE trust. I really don't think there's any fault in him believing that he's the best and striving to prove it. His last run in WWE, sketchy as it was is the proof that Bret's trying to put that bitterness behind him, and this video is just him honestly describing the way he felt, and probably still feels about his treatment when he was an active wrestler in the WWE and I don't see anything wrong with that.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Oct 22, 2011 18:32:55 GMT -5
Back on the subject of whether Bret and Shawn are legit friends now, I saw an interview w/ Bret where he said he was very wary of Shawn's intentions at first... but that he really did change and he considers him a friend now. Yeah, after watching the doc I'm revising my opinion I held earlier and saying these two if not really good friends, are at the very least more than friendly acquaintances. The part where the two of them talk about burying the hatchet once and for all and what it did for them was one of the most moving things I've ever seen. In addition, the reconciliation with Vince is once and for all explained how that happened. And...yeah. Vince may be out of touch at times but my opinion of the man raised quite a few notches.
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Jimmy
Grimlock
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Post by Jimmy on Oct 22, 2011 20:35:33 GMT -5
One of the points Bret made in his book that he doesn't quite bring up in that clip but is completely true is that he was booked weak as champion going into WrestleMania while Shawn was booked strong. Shawn won the Rumble while still suffering from kayfabe injuries and was booked cleanly over Owen at the next In Your House while Bret was booked to have been clearly about to lose the WWF Title to Undertaker before Diesel interfered, and then clearly about to lose the WWF Title to Diesel before Undertaker interfered. He was made to look like a fluke champion.
As far as with what he said, I think Bret's problem lied in the fact that no matter how hard he worked as champion his job was simply to make Shawn look good instead of the WWF letting them both look good.
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Paco on Oct 22, 2011 20:51:16 GMT -5
Bret never liked his 3rd reign. Meaningless random title defenses until the inevitable Shawn loss at Mania. Kinda like a 4 month transitional reign.
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El Dandy
Don Corleone
Who are you to doubt El Dandy?
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Post by El Dandy on Oct 22, 2011 21:46:03 GMT -5
Bret does have a strong point in how the WrestleMania match was put together. If you watch the buildup to the match between Shawn and Bret, there really isn't much confrontation leading to what is supposed to be the main event in the biggest event in wrestling.
Shawn won the Royal Rumble, they did some interviews on RAW about how they respect one another (since both were faces going in), and really, that was it. Compare that to how they built up the other huge face vs. face main event at WrestleMania VI between Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior. They collided at first at the Royal Rumble and it blew the roof of when they were the two lone wrestlers left in the ring.
They were then booked together as a tag team at a few events and the tension grew more and more up until the big show. They did a proper build up with tons of drama heading into the final confrontation. Bret didn't get that with Shawn.
Bret says he had no problem dropping the belt to Shawn, he just felt that they just didn't do more with their feud going into their Iron Man match and he's right.
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Post by joebob27 on Oct 22, 2011 23:19:38 GMT -5
And Shawn's first reign was a total debacle businesswise, so that POV that Bret has stands up. They made the whole transition seem worthless and it got treated just like that.
It's like "Wow, it took Shawn over an hour to beat the guy who had been fluking his way to WM!"
Not exactly the statement you want to make with that match.
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Post by Ace Ventura on Oct 23, 2011 9:52:28 GMT -5
Dying to see this. Should be very, very interesting.
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Post by mauled on Oct 24, 2011 14:54:05 GMT -5
And Shawn's first reign was a total debacle businesswise, so that POV that Bret has stands up. They made the whole transition seem worthless and it got treated just like that. It's like "Wow, it took Shawn over an hour to beat the guy who had been fluking his way to WM!" Not exactly the statement you want to make with that match. They could have or maybe should have played it like how the Rock and Austin did it at WM19 Where the Rock had never beaten Austin at WM etc. That made that match epic (even more so when you think Austin was literally straight out the hospital) Shawn up until that point had never beaten Bret in a match. They could have had Bret slicing through guys and Shawn determined to finally beat him and win that belt. In terms of issues I think Bret shouldve had more with Hogan than Shawn he went back on putting him over in 93 despite the photo promo already done. Then played a major role in burying him in WCW. Then Hogan buried him on the orginal burial DVD they were going to do Add on Shawn's own issues hating on Hogan would be a good bonding experience for both ;D
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