Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2011 9:46:44 GMT -5
I haven't seen it yet, so I won't comment on it too much other than to say that yet another worked shoot isn't the answer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2011 9:46:46 GMT -5
The whole end of Raw segment kind of fell flat. Both guys did a good job, but it just went on too long and too much worked shoot stuff. The entire thing had no direction - they were all over the place. I'm not a fan of scripted promos, but more structured promos are definitely needed otherwise you get Russo/TNA style promos of just guys saying words and nothing really happening.
I did like the bit about the mics being shut off. They could have made the promos much shorter and just use that bit.
HHH said best - they just kept going around and around. It honestly sounded like a live version of what an arguement on a message board sounds like.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Sept 13, 2011 9:49:30 GMT -5
HHH said best - they just kept going around and around. It honestly sounded like a live version of what an arguement on a message board sounds like. So true. By the end, it didn't even sound like they were responding to one another, just reciting their talking points without any regard for context.
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Post by Chuckie Finster on Sept 13, 2011 9:50:16 GMT -5
Meltzer brought up in the Observer radio that as a Christmas gift not to long ago, Steph got HHH every single Mr Olympia poster as a gift.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Sept 13, 2011 10:10:23 GMT -5
It did go on for too long, but I think the ending is what mattered and that was great.
It's not real and therefore there's no real reason to discuss the points they points they made like it was a legit debate. FWIW though, I can't think of the last bodybuilder to be treated like a star from day one like Punk has been. It probably was Lashley, and how long ago was that?
Incidentally, I wouldn't say that any of the current male Champions fall into this category (Del Rio, Orton, Ziggler, Rhodes, Kofi and Bourne), and all of them range from very good to great in the ring.
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Post by Supercheese on Sept 13, 2011 10:18:37 GMT -5
It did go on for too long, but I think the ending is what mattered and that was great. It's not real and therefore there's no real reason to discuss the points they points they made like it was a legit debate. FWIW though, I can't think of the last bodybuilder to be treated like a star from day one like Punk has been. It probably was Lashley, and how long ago was that? Incidentally, I wouldn't say that any of the current male Champions fall into this category (Del Rio, Orton, Ziggler, Rhodes, Kofi and Bourne), and all of them range from very good to great in the ring. Orton and Ziggler and gym freaks, then you have guys like Ryder, Ryan, Zeke etc who are definitely fans of body sculpting if not building.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Sept 13, 2011 10:19:57 GMT -5
It did go on for too long, but I think the ending is what mattered and that was great. It's not real and therefore there's no real reason to discuss the points they points they made like it was a legit debate. FWIW though, I can't think of the last bodybuilder to be treated like a star from day one like Punk has been. It probably was Lashley, and how long ago was that? Incidentally, I wouldn't say that any of the current male Champions fall into this category (Del Rio, Orton, Ziggler, Rhodes, Kofi and Bourne), and all of them range from very good to great in the ring. Yep, it was probably to get people to notice that and talk about it. If this was still a big problem I doubt Punk would be allowed to talk about it. Or be comfortable talking about it, if all of his co-workers were roided up muscleheads. This was the first time in recent memory though that Trips didn't talk about Punk's "skinny fat ass".
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Post by kayfabulous on Sept 13, 2011 10:20:47 GMT -5
Whoa whoa whoa!!! Hold the phone!!!! Are you calling Brodus Clay a body builder?! If cholesterol is a building material. Actually... cholesterol is an important substrate in the production of several steroid hormones such as testosterone which increases/supports production of muscle mass... My stat class got cancelled and I'm bored
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Post by flatsdomino on Sept 13, 2011 10:35:10 GMT -5
But yeah, pretty weak argument by Punk. Hunter had a good retort, despite not mentioning Chris Jericho, to the surprise of no one. Hunter's retort were all guys who primarily wrestled and got over 10-plus years ago. And again, were: - HBK and Bret, who only got the ball after the first steroid controversy forced the WWF's hand - Mick Foley, who was overlooked for YEARS by the wrestling industry, NEVER considered to "look like a star" by Vince or the powers that be who certainly DIDN'T respect him exactly because he "didn't fit the mold", something which was held against him all the way until his WWE exit, where he was just never given the respect he deserved. He DID get the title - after busting his ass for 11 years and being thrown off a 25 foot Cell; but even most of his big wins and moments at that point were "thank you's", and the fact is it was the fans who pushed him to the top, to win the title from the Rock, NOT the WWF brass. HE earned those opportunities despite people trying to shut him down at every turn. Hell, minus the anger, attitude and worked shoots, Mick Foley was practically the CM Punk of the 90's. - And last but not least, Rey Rey, who certainly doesn't have the same body he did back in WCW...that tell you anything about what smaller guys have to do to make in the WWE? Benoit, Guerrero? Yeah, there is a bodybuilding fetish, and that EXTENDS to those guys.
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Psychoblue
Don Corleone
WrestleCrap #1 Kona Crush mark (probably)
Posts: 1,664
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Post by Psychoblue on Sept 13, 2011 10:56:51 GMT -5
If you're going to be on live TV, it helps not to look like a slob. Either get buff, or get toned. Don't go looking like you half-ass your workouts.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Sept 13, 2011 10:58:34 GMT -5
It did go on for too long, but I think the ending is what mattered and that was great. It's not real and therefore there's no real reason to discuss the points they points they made like it was a legit debate. FWIW though, I can't think of the last bodybuilder to be treated like a star from day one like Punk has been. It probably was Lashley, and how long ago was that? Incidentally, I wouldn't say that any of the current male Champions fall into this category (Del Rio, Orton, Ziggler, Rhodes, Kofi and Bourne), and all of them range from very good to great in the ring. Orton and Ziggler and gym freaks, then you have guys like Ryder, Ryan, Zeke etc who are definitely fans of body sculpting if not building. I would expect most wrestlers are gym freaks, but if we're including people like Orton and Ziggler then I don't think the point has any merit anyway. Freakishly musclebound people who can't wrestle and have no charisma getting big pushes? Yeah, I can see that as a problem (although I think it's ok in moderation). Good/great wrestlers, who have lots of charisma and also happen to be well built? It's no mystery why these people get pushes.
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Post by crimsonwolf on Sept 13, 2011 12:44:06 GMT -5
The last Bodybuilder the E' seriously invested in was Bobby Lashley, and he bailed on them after Krystal got fired. I think Punk's complaint was a little invalid. While it's true if you have "The Look" you'll more likely to get a push right away, cases like Kozlov and Sheamus prove that it won't guarantee you staying at the top of the card.
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Post by I *still* ✡ Johnny on Sept 13, 2011 12:44:54 GMT -5
I thought he'd comment on Vic and Hunter's seeming trunks fetish.
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Post by crimsonwolf on Sept 13, 2011 12:50:42 GMT -5
I thought he'd comment on Vic and Hunter's seeming trunks fetish. Punk has been wearing trunks since before joining WWE so that'd be a little hypocritical. Just realized Trips left out a couple of people from his of smaller guys who got over, Jericho, Edge, Jeff Hardy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2011 13:12:13 GMT -5
We are thankfully a far cry from things like HHH and Vince making fun of Masters and Orton being off the gas respectively. Vince made fun of Orton for being off steroids? When did that happen? Hell, I think Orton looks more muscular over the last few years than he ever did in the past. Though I suspect the overuse of baby oil has something to do with that. Thankfully he's toned that down a little. I think it happened in 2005 when Orton was injured. Orton made a surprise appearance sporting the buzz cut look for the first time and Vince said something like you look a little bit smaller now.
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Post by flatsdomino on Sept 13, 2011 13:43:50 GMT -5
I thought he'd comment on Vic and Hunter's seeming trunks fetish. Punk has been wearing trunks since before joining WWE so that'd be a little hypocritical. Just realized Trips left out a couple of people from his of smaller guys who got over, Jericho, Edge, Jeff Hardy. Jericho, who, when it came time to put up or shut up, was ALWAYS made to look weak against the bigger guys, ESECIALLY his notorious record against Trips himself... Edge, who DID have his best years as a smaller (cowardly, cheating) guy, but let's not forget that there was a point in about '02-'04 where Edge was pretty jacked - and that WAS when they started pushing him seriously as a singles star. Plus, Edge is frickin' TALL. I remember seeing pics of him in '04 were dude looked like TEST. And Jeff Hardy, who took TWELVE YEARS to get there - and I can pinpoint SEVERAL places where they outright refused to give him the ball when it was truly "his time" - Royal Rumble 2008, the EC of that year, his series against Triple H...I mean, people like to bash Jeff Hrdy, but in 2008 he was MORE POPULAR THAN CENA! So yeah, those guys DID make it, but not without a LOT of resistance
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Sept 13, 2011 15:58:52 GMT -5
It's not nearly as bad as it once was but Vince still leans towards body builder types. How else did Mason Ryan get on Raw in the first place? He looks exactly like Batista?
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Sept 13, 2011 16:01:53 GMT -5
It's not nearly as bad as it once was but Vince still leans towards body builder types. How else did Mason Ryan get on Raw in the first place? He looks exactly like Batista? I think Vince is just convinced that its actually Batista, and Vince wanted to repackage him as a Welshman due to the WWE never having someone from Wales. Mason Ryan enjoys the paycheck, thus he has never said anything and answers to Dave when talking to Vince.
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@TenaciousBe
Hank Scorpio
Guess who's back... back again
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Post by @TenaciousBe on Sept 13, 2011 16:14:57 GMT -5
Once Hunter started talking about getting over with the fans, and how that leads to success in the company, I was just frothing at the mouth waiting for Punk to bring up Zack Ryder, Santino, guys like that who have been massively over with the crowd but yet never get anything more than a comic relief role. Missed opportunity.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Sept 13, 2011 16:16:52 GMT -5
Punk has been wearing trunks since before joining WWE so that'd be a little hypocritical. Just realized Trips left out a couple of people from his of smaller guys who got over, Jericho, Edge, Jeff Hardy. Jericho, who, when it came time to put up or shut up, was ALWAYS made to look weak against the bigger guys, ESECIALLY his notorious record against Trips himself... Edge, who DID have his best years as a smaller (cowardly, cheating) guy, but let's not forget that there was a point in about '02-'04 where Edge was pretty jacked - and that WAS when they started pushing him seriously as a singles star. Plus, Edge is frickin' TALL. I remember seeing pics of him in '04 were dude looked like TEST. And Jeff Hardy, who took TWELVE YEARS to get there - and I can pinpoint SEVERAL places where they outright refused to give him the ball when it was truly "his time" - Royal Rumble 2008, the EC of that year, his series against Triple H...I mean, people like to bash Jeff Hrdy, but in 2008 he was MORE POPULAR THAN CENA! So yeah, those guys DID make it, but not without a LOT of resistance Your Jeff Hardy point is null and void. Jeff could have had everything. The only reason it took 12 years was because of him. Every time. You talk about how he should have won at the Rumble in 2008 but forget to point out that he missed Wrestlemania 24, or missed why he was absent from 2003-2006. And Edge and Jericho did get pushed, as did others. THATS the point. They can screw up with anyone, big or small, so I don't see the relevance there. The point is, they were in WWE, they were talented, and they got pushed to the main event even though they weren't your typical size. And it takes a while because honestly thats just how the fans will accept it. Brock Lesnar can dominate 3 months into his career and people will buy it because of how he looks. The same won't work for Evan Bourne.
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