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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 2, 2006 14:01:24 GMT -5
You know, I find it interesting that much of the Intraweb was going ga-ga over Cena in 2003 and Orton during his IC title reign in 2004 (especially after his match with Mick Foley at Backlash). People were clamoring for them to win the world title. Fast forward 2 years, and now these same 2 men that everyone loved in 2003-04 are now 2 of the most hated on the Intraweb. Funny how things change, isn't it? Ah, but who started the "There's. Nothing. Special. About. Randy. Orton." bandwagon right here on the ol' boards? Right here, baby!Anyway, my pick is Orton. With Cena, you at least get the feeling that there's a guy there who wants to do more than he's told to, and actually has some charisma to speak of. I don't know the guy, but I at least get a vibe from him that he WANTS to improve. Orton, on the other hand, is about as bland a wrestler I've ever seen. It has nothing to do with his look; it has EVERYTHING to do with his utterly unimpressive ringwork. Sure, put him in a brawl with Benoit and the results will be impressive...it's Chris Benoit. The dude just looks lost more often than not, and doesn't seem to know how to draw heat.
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Rick Mad
Grimlock
Rick Mad Champion
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Post by Rick Mad on Feb 2, 2006 14:03:02 GMT -5
The dude just looks lost more often than not, and doesn't seem to know how to draw heat. Sounds like Smackdown tomorrow night will have the answer to that!
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Post by 2CSultan on Feb 2, 2006 14:15:41 GMT -5
Orton rules! Cuck Fena!
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Post by shudj on Feb 2, 2006 14:47:21 GMT -5
Hmm, I don't understand people bashing Orton's ability to wrestle and put on good matches. He and Benoit put on matches of the week recently (well, I guess people will say that Randy Orton was carried by Benoit, but I guess they'll always say that Benoit carried a match if he's in the ring with someone people don't like). But Cena is more hated. He's made the hate for Triple H look like everyone was giving him a praise party. Even though John Cena has been having good matches recently, especially on Raw, which will no doubt be the match of the week in my opinion. But, I think it should also be taken into consideration that Randy Orton isn't the Champion right now. See, there is this weird dynamic that the Champ is always the most hated. So if Cena didn't have the title and Orton did, I think Orton would slightly shift in the lead. Ahh, who am I kidding. There is no wrestler coming up in the future who will get the same amount of hate as John Cena gets. So andrew is good.... I don't know everything about wrestling. But I can tell you what John Cena is about. John Cena is about HIS fans. You know the ones...like me who HAVEN'T GOT anyone else except for him. So what do they do? Spend their last dollar on transportation money to attend a signing of his, then realize on the way to John Cena's signing...'I didn't bring enough money to get back...' (because they didn't have it) But,the fan finds a security guard to help them and get money to go home. Next signing the fan goes to the fan finds out.... John is still there but they're all out of tickets. The fan wants in and then some. But has no ticket,is told they can't get in they are sold out. The fan thiinks..."What am I going to do?? I came out here from out-of-state...I have to get in. All I want is a hug. Then I'll go back home to my life but I won't forget the hug. John doesn't have to hug me. I don't always deserve it,but he hugs me." So the fan tells the security guy about the other security guard who gave them the money to get home (at the last signing when they were stranded). But wasn't there today so the fan wasn't able to pay the security guard back the money for helping them out to get home. But go ahead and ask who the fan believes would've given the security guard the money to get them home. What kind of guy is John Cena? The sort who'd give a security guard money for a fan to get back home safe. John Cena is a great guy and deserves the support. He is awesome in the ring because he cares and does what's right. I respect him. He's fantastic and he is a more accomplished and better wrestler than anyone realizes. I believe John Cena can do anything at all. John Cena WILL defeat HHH at WMXXII. He doesn't deservet to be fed to HHH. See, John is the one who is getting HHH fed to HIM!! John Cena is very,very strong in the ring and can dominate and defeat anyone he goes up against. ESPECIALLY Triple H.
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Post by Bullhead on Feb 2, 2006 14:54:07 GMT -5
Orton. There's nothing entertaining about a wrestler whose offense consists mostly of restholds, dumb poses and the world's worst finisher. Plus, he sounds like a big dumb jock on the mic.
And he sucks, too.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Feb 2, 2006 15:00:07 GMT -5
Well, I certainly agree that he's a great guy, which I've read about. I'm mostly saying that people hate him more then Orton, which I guess isn't that justified. HMark is right as well about Cena and wanting to improve. I myself, even though I defend Cena, have critisized his wrestling and know he's not the best, but recently he's been putting on some good matches.
Orton I feel though really hasn't been the same since he won the World Title. He was one of the best IC Champs around, but he was pushed down the fans throats too early. John Cena was built up over a decent amount of time being really over with the crowd before winning his first US Title (and in my opinion, he brought a lot of prestiege to the title because of his desire and want to hold the title, which really hasn't been the same since Orlando Jordan had it), then a year after that, and a good angle working up to it, finally given the WWE Title. Randy Orton had no previous want for the World Title, and was given it about a month after losing the IC Title. I know people say, well, Cena lost the US Title about a month before he won the World Title, but he was going towards that belt while he still had the US Title.
So like, I do feel Orton needs a lot more time to get a shot at the World Title. I don't know what it is, but he's just not there yet, if you get me. I mean, Orton is a great heel I think. But I just don't see him as World Title material yet. Booker T was, Benoit was (and still is I think, being one of the greatest wrestlers of all time), Cena well, is. Edge is. Mysterio is. All have and had proper built towards the title. But with Randy Orton, I just don't know.
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Rocky Angle
Unicron
Robo-Vampire- best movie ever.
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Post by Rocky Angle on Feb 2, 2006 15:06:04 GMT -5
Cena. He's the complete package of suck.
Annoying character- check.
Bad matches- check. (though I will admit his match on Raw was a refreshing step away from the usual Cena superman get ass kicked all match then protoplex then FU formula)
Keeps the title for an agonisingly long time. Check. Rock and Austin didn't need to have a stranglehold on the title to get over. HHH did it, but he's a heel- people pay to see him lose the belt!
Plus Cena has the worst finishers in the world. The FU looks super weak- hell a vertical suplex looks more damaging. And the STFU? Harmless when another wrestler uses it. And the less said about the 5 knuckle shuffle the better. I love the people's elbow, but that isn't named after every man's favourite solitary entertainment.
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Post by DSR on Feb 2, 2006 15:10:21 GMT -5
I might've agreed with you at one point. But Orton's finisher is even less convincing than the FU. I mean, the FU at least involves throwing (dropping?) the opponent from a height. The RKO looks like Orton's opponent tripped and fell down while Orton just happened to put his arm around the guy's neck.
STFU > Chinlock.
5 Knuckle weird dancing + fist drop > arms up pose + nothing.
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Post by shudj on Feb 2, 2006 18:14:16 GMT -5
So what the hell is your point?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 2, 2006 18:24:27 GMT -5
Jeez, I don't know. Can I vote for a third party candidate in Lita? Plus Cena has the worst finishers in the world. The FU looks super weak- hell a vertical suplex looks more damaging. And the STFU? Harmless when another wrestler uses it. And the less said about the 5 knuckle shuffle the better. I love the people's elbow, but that isn't named after every man's favourite solitary entertainment. No comparison to that backflip rock bottom that Birchill is doing there in your avatar. You know, I find it interesting that much of the Intraweb was going ga-ga over Cena in 2003 and Orton during his IC title reign in 2004 (especially after his match with Mick Foley at Backlash). People were clamoring for them to win the world title. Fast forward 2 years, and now these same 2 men that everyone loved in 2003-04 are now 2 of the most hated on the Intraweb. Funny how things change, isn't it? Watch out for the 'I hate Kennedy' threads, coming to a forum near you in 2007!
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Rick Mad
Grimlock
Rick Mad Champion
Posts: 14,613
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Post by Rick Mad on Feb 2, 2006 18:38:46 GMT -5
I might've agreed with you at one point. But Orton's finisher is even less convincing than the FU. I mean, the FU at least involves throwing (dropping?) the opponent from a height. The RKO looks like Orton's opponent tripped and fell down while Orton just happened to put his arm around the guy's neck. STFU > Chinlock. 5 Knuckle weird dancing + fist drop > arms up pose + nothing. I think having someone drop you by your head is probably worse than landing on your back. Eh. I'm fine with both of them really.
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Post by CrOaT.... on Feb 2, 2006 18:50:26 GMT -5
i truly hate cena i dont mind orton and i hate how a lot ppl say cena only does moves that creative tells him to do okay fine but if he only is gonna do a few moves at least learn how to do them properly and get some more training because cena is horrible in the ring and very annoying on the mic
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
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Post by The OP on Feb 2, 2006 18:58:11 GMT -5
Hmm, I don't understand people bashing Orton's ability to wrestle and put on good matches. He and Benoit put on matches of the week recently (well, I guess people will say that Randy Orton was carried by Benoit, but I guess they'll always say that Benoit carried a match if he's in the ring with someone people don't like). But Cena is more hated. He's made the hate for Triple H look like everyone was giving him a praise party. Even though John Cena has been having good matches recently, especially on Raw, which will no doubt be the match of the week in my opinion. But, I think it should also be taken into consideration that Randy Orton isn't the Champion right now. See, there is this weird dynamic that the Champ is always the most hated. So if Cena didn't have the title and Orton did, I think Orton would slightly shift in the lead. Ahh, who am I kidding. There is no wrestler coming up in the future who will get the same amount of hate as John Cena gets. So andrew is good.... I don't know everything about wrestling. But I can tell you what John Cena is about. John Cena is about HIS fans. You know the ones...like me who HAVEN'T GOT anyone else except for him. So what do they do? Spend their last dollar on transportation money to attend a signing of his, then realize on the way to John Cena's signing...'I didn't bring enough money to get back...' (because they didn't have it) But,the fan finds a security guard to help them and get money to go home. Next signing the fan goes to the fan finds out.... John is still there but they're all out of tickets. The fan wants in and then some. But has no ticket,is told they can't get in they are sold out. The fan thiinks..."What am I going to do?? I came out here from out-of-state...I have to get in. All I want is a hug. Then I'll go back home to my life but I won't forget the hug. John doesn't have to hug me. I don't always deserve it,but he hugs me." So the fan tells the security guy about the other security guard who gave them the money to get home (at the last signing when they were stranded). But wasn't there today so the fan wasn't able to pay the security guard back the money for helping them out to get home. But go ahead and ask who the fan believes would've given the security guard the money to get them home. What kind of guy is John Cena? The sort who'd give a security guard money for a fan to get back home safe. John Cena is a great guy and deserves the support. He is awesome in the ring because he cares and does what's right. I respect him. He's fantastic and he is a more accomplished and better wrestler than anyone realizes. I believe John Cena can do anything at all. John Cena WILL defeat HHH at WMXXII. He doesn't deservet to be fed to HHH. See, John is the one who is getting HHH fed to HIM!! John Cena is very,very strong in the ring and can dominate and defeat anyone he goes up against. ESPECIALLY Triple H. I don't believe a word of this story. Anyways, I'm confused about the poll. It seems like some people are interpreting the question as "who does IWC hate most" and others "who do YOU hate most". I guess it doesn't matter, in either case, it's probably Cena.
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Post by glorsto on Feb 2, 2006 19:06:06 GMT -5
yea but this is all stupid and i don't want to be part of your hypocricy.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 2, 2006 19:23:58 GMT -5
Probably Cena because they don't care about Orton at all, which is likely worse for Randy. At least Cena gets a reaction from the IWC. Orton? "Whatever."
And don't diss the STF-U. Well, you can diss the silly name, but STF's are damn effective looking and the legendary Masahiro Chono uses the hold as one of his finishers, too. Cena's STF would probably be more convincing if they didn't tap out 4 seconds after he locked on.
And personally, I like Cena A LOT more than Orton.
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Post by Sawylent White on Feb 2, 2006 19:27:27 GMT -5
I understand what it means, but where did the term "5 moves of doom" come from exactly? And, I have a general idea of what they are, but just because I'm curious, what exactly are each of the 5 moves?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2006 19:29:20 GMT -5
Probably Cena because they don't care about Orton at all, which is likely worse for Randy. At least Cena gets a reaction from the IWC. Orton? "Whatever." And don't diss the STF-U. Well, you can diss the silly name, but STF's are damn effective looking and the legendary Masahiro Chono uses the hold as one of his finishers, too. Cena's STF would probably be more convincing if they didn't tap out 4 seconds after he locked on. And personally, I like Cena A LOT more than Orton. Really? I hadn't gathered that from your comments lol I'd say Cena is the more hated of the two but I only believe that this is because Cena is a unstopable champ (In the eyes of the E) and he has been around the main event scene for almost a year Orton meanwhile has been tied up with Taker most of 05 and while it was a high-ranking fued it was not the focal point of Smackdown till December really (And that was probably only because of Batista's injury) but he still has had a few notable detractors If he becomes involved in the title hunt (And all accounts are that he will) look out for the haters to increase in numbers
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 2, 2006 19:38:48 GMT -5
I understand what it means, but where did the term "5 moves of doom" come from exactly? And, I have a general idea of what they are, but just because I'm curious, what exactly are each of the 5 moves? Running shoulder block, running hip toss, protoplex, five knuckle shuffle, and FU.
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Post by glorsto on Feb 2, 2006 19:40:29 GMT -5
the born again dentist needs to learn a lesson in respect. it has none.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2006 20:29:00 GMT -5
I think the FU ---> STFU sequence isn't bad to be honest.
It sucked having the FU just instantly win matches, having it be a setup for a submission is pretty decent though. (Edge should take a nod from this, and use the spear as a setup for the edgecator)
Think the real reason people don't like the STFU is there's no suspense when its applied (unlike other submission holds). You know its going to win within 5 seconds. People should sneak out of it some and he can win with a rollup or something.
Variety is the spice of life.
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