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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jun 9, 2012 0:29:12 GMT -5
WM 25 HBK v. Taker, was one of the finest pieces of storytelling within a wrestling match that I've seen. Phenomenal match on the biggest stage in wrestling. Agreed.
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Post by corndog on Jun 9, 2012 3:54:48 GMT -5
These matches got 4 and 3/4 stars but Cena vs. Punk got 5? Wow, just wow. Exactly, Punk and Cena was a great match, just because it was well beyond what anyone expected. Then again so was Hogan/Rock. But there were quite a few botches. Owen/Bret at WM 10 and Taker/Shawn were perfect matches from what I can tell, both from execution and storytelling.
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Post by Manute Bol on Jun 9, 2012 14:31:42 GMT -5
Is Shawn/Jannetty really that good??
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Post by chiapet22 on Jun 10, 2012 11:41:13 GMT -5
None of them. Meltzer's opinion is Meltzer's opinion. If he thinks a match is 3&3/4 stars then he thinks a match is 3&3/4 Stars. I guess I don't like to spend my time critiquing or evaluating other people's opinions, critiques, and evaluations. What's the difference between a 4.75 star match a 5 star match and why should I care which ones are 5.0 and which ones are 4.75? To even give such time discussing how one man rates matches gives way too much importance to the star system itself. It's especially a waste a time arguing over whether something someone rated a 4.75 should have been rated 5.0 considering that the difference between these figures is marginal. I like Dave, but I don't seek out his match ratings nor do I want to evaluate his evaluations. You my friend should lay off the wacky weed. STAR RATINGZ~! are incredibly serious business. Did you get the memo on it? Exactly. He's no pro wrestler, so how can he know what's an entertaining pro wrestling match? Yeah, quarter stars are ridiculous and incredibly petty. It should be either half or whole, that's it. Should we make it an amendment in the constitution? Bret vs Owen from WM X for me. Never gets old, and this comes from someone who tries watching it once a week! I like this, sounds very fulfilling. These matches got 4 and 3/4 stars but Cena vs. Punk got 5? Wow, just wow. Yeah, maybe atmosphere is something Dave takes into consideration. I know it's hard to understand him if you don't pony up the dough for an F4W/WON subscription. If Taker/HBK at WM 25 wasn't a 5 star match, nothing is. Of course - who cares that the match had extended moments where nothing was going on due to botches? Seriously some of those match are way OVERRATED... HHH vs. HBK vs. Benoit WM XX HBK vs. Undertaker WM 26 Austin vs. HHH NWO 01 Angle vs. Michael WM 21 (This is one of the most ridiculous matches I've ever seen) All of these matches are a bunch of stuff with no rhyme or reason. Are matches desperately trying to be all time greats instead of just letting it happen. Oh yeah, they're just piles of huge moves and moments thrown together, no organic storytelling being told to pull the audience in. Triple H / Undertaker, but like I've said before at the point where you're going into quarters of a star I no longer care what you think. But yeah, quarter stars are bull. Its an instant drop of credibility. I don't take Meltzer seriously in any form anyway. I'm sure he loses sleep over this.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Jun 10, 2012 12:25:36 GMT -5
His name is Dave. Their names are Roger and Leonard respectively. Opinions are opinions. I didn't mean to say he was. I think you missed my point. This thread is about matches Dave Meltzer has rated. I was trying to say if Dave thinks something is 4.75/5, then that's what HE should have rated it. I don't look at star ratings for matches, nor do I personally give matches star ratings. As with most journalists, expect his bias (you know, his love for 90s Japanese matches, among other things) to kick in, though he'll never admit to it. What if he starts to review matches Ebert-style ("It's not what it's about, it's how it's about it")?
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Post by Manute Bol on Jun 10, 2012 14:10:31 GMT -5
I really want to know the deal on Shawn/Marty getting such a high rating. It just seems so out of place on this list.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Jun 10, 2012 14:17:45 GMT -5
I really want to know the deal on Shawn/Marty getting such a high rating. It just seems so out of place on this list. I've said before I'm sure he takes the build up into account, this probably got 4 stars just for the barber shop segment
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jun 10, 2012 17:12:41 GMT -5
I'm not trying to diss people for their opinion at all, but I have just never gotten the huge appeal for Taker/Shawn at Wrestlemania 25 (or 26). I thought it was pretty good, but that's all. Let me put it this way: If Shawn hadn't kicked out of that one tombstone, the match would have been chopped liver. That one moment was amazing, but it encapsulates my problem with the match overall: Big move, sitting around; big move, sitting around.
This is a little harder to articulate, but the drama was not fully kayfabe, which made the whole thing kind of weird. On a very surface level, it wasn't "Will Shawn end the streak?" but rather "Would they really book Shawn to win the streak?" When the tombstone didn't end things, that moment was electric, because of "Oh my god they wouldn't have Shawn win but IS SHAWN GOING TO WIN??" The tension was all meta, and that's hard to pull off.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jun 10, 2012 18:48:17 GMT -5
I'm not trying to diss people for their opinion at all, but I have just never gotten the huge appeal for Taker/Shawn at Wrestlemania 25 (or 26). I thought it was pretty good, but that's all. Let me put it this way: If Shawn hadn't kicked out of that one tombstone, the match would have been chopped liver. That one moment was amazing, but it encapsulates my problem with the match overall: Big move, sitting around; big move, sitting around. This is a little harder to articulate, but the drama was not fully kayfabe, which made the whole thing kind of weird. On a very surface level, it wasn't "Will Shawn end the streak?" but rather "Would they really book Shawn to win the streak?" When the tombstone didn't end things, that moment was electric, because of "Oh my god they wouldn't have Shawn win but IS SHAWN GOING TO WIN??" The tension was all meta, and that's hard to pull off. Not trying to dispute your opinion, just trying to state my opinion. I don't disagree that Shawn and Taker was "Big Move" *rest* "Big Move" *rest* (rinse, wash, & repeat) but I actually think that those kind of matches can be AWESOME when done right. The problem, for me at least, is when guys kick out of a million things and then a guy wins via rollup (I'm looking at you ROH!).
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on Jun 11, 2012 9:25:56 GMT -5
TLC II.
At the time, it really got the praise it deserved. Now it seems almost forgotten.
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