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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 16, 2012 1:06:03 GMT -5
Something I've always felt about the prequels is...well, ok, I've mostly felt they sucked, but getting that out of the way...they missed some great chances to really flesh out a single, solid story that could've stretched out over six films. Rather, the prequels became more about simply throwing things out there; references to the old trilogy, gaudy visual effects, random and sometimes unneeded action sequences...things just happened, but not for any real necessary reasons.
Really, it seems as if the prequels were meant to tell a two-pronged story that could tie-in with the original movies:
1. Showcasing the parallels between Anakin and Luke Skywalker and their respective journeys in the Force. The main emphasis, obviously, would be that both were tempted by darkness in order to help others, and while the father succumbed, the son overcame, redeeming the father in the process.
2. Showing a Jedi Order that had grown too large, complacent, and separated from the "true nature" of the Force. Being able to just prick a kid's finger and determine how attuned he is to the Force based on a microorganism's presence in his blood? Yeah, no.
Yoda would've been the great vessel for telling this side story: the Jedi have lose their way, sitting in high ivory towers and all that jazz, but upon realizing this error Yoda exiles himself to Dagobah, where he seeks to go back to the roots of the Force, it's true essence, to relearn what should've been essential truths. Hell, maybe Yoda should've been the voice on the Council who argued that they needed to "go back to basics", but would wind up overruled by circumstances.
Neither of these things are done particularly well in the prequels because, again, they're too preoccupied with throwing out some explosions, eye candy, villains with multiple lightsaber blades, blah blah blah...and then jumping to discussions of horridly written political intrigue that just jar the viewer.
That will always be my great complaint, beyond the bad direction/writing/acting/etc., that Lucas sought to tell a six movie-story, but never tried to give it any truly cohesive strings to hold it all together and for the audience to really latch onto and want to see develop.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 16, 2012 1:34:50 GMT -5
Yoda would've been the great vessel for telling this side story: the Jedi have lose their way, sitting in high ivory towers and all that jazz, but upon realizing this error Yoda exiles himself to Dagobah, where he seeks to go back to the roots of the Force, it's true essence, to relearn what should've been essential truths. Hell, maybe Yoda should've been the voice on the Council who argued that they needed to "go back to basics", but would wind up overruled by circumstances. It was stated in eu things considered in the official canon (even before the prequels) Yoda went to Dagobah to hide from being hunted down by the Empire, and Dagobah specifically because it was the only place in the galaxy that was concentrated enough in the dark side that he could mask himself from detection. Essentially Exiling himself out of necessity due to his failure to prevent the return of the sith empire. Not that Lucas truly cared about retconning things stated in the official canon ... but still
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Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Mar 16, 2012 2:06:55 GMT -5
I'd take an army of Jar-Jars over the "brilliant" concept of midichlorians. Oh, don't worry my friend...in episode one, you got BOTH!
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erisi236
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Post by erisi236 on Mar 16, 2012 2:12:23 GMT -5
I'd take an army of Jar-Jars over the "brilliant" concept of midichlorians. Oh, don't worry my friend...in episode one, you got BOTH! Ugh. Starting this thread and than sitting down to watch Empire again really riles my blood. "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter"Oh wait, scratch that, it's bugs in our DNA that talk to us, or something, I'm not quite sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 2:17:42 GMT -5
Episode 2 is bad. So bad. At least the Plinkett Reviews exist. They are honestly more entertaining than any of the prequels.
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Goldenbane
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THE G.D. Goldenbane
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Post by Goldenbane on Mar 16, 2012 2:23:12 GMT -5
Oh, don't worry my friend...in episode one, you got BOTH! Ugh. Starting this thread and than sitting down to watch Empire again really riles my blood. "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter"Oh wait, scratch that, it's bugs in our DNA that talk to us, or something, I'm not quite sure. My goofy theory on the whole midichloreans crap was that it was kinda like how gods evolved in the real world. First people believed in Zeus, then Odin, then the current religeous beliefs, ect. In Star Wars, maybe they had a similiar change where first they thought these stupid bugs helped them communicate with the force, but in reality the midichloreans were useless and it was the Jedi themselves that were able to communicate with the force. Hope I'm not crossing the religeon line. I know I'm kinda dangerously close, but that's my Star Wars Theory anyway.
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Post by BorneAgain on Mar 16, 2012 2:49:14 GMT -5
Something I've always felt about the prequels is...well, ok, I've mostly felt they sucked, but getting that out of the way...they missed some great chances to really flesh out a single, solid story that could've stretched out over six films. Rather, the prequels became more about simply throwing things out there; references to the old trilogy, gaudy visual effects, random and sometimes unneeded action sequences...things just happened, but not for any real necessary reasons. Really, it seems as if the prequels were meant to tell a two-pronged story that could tie-in with the original movies: 1. Showcasing the parallels between Anakin and Luke Skywalker and their respective journeys in the Force. The main emphasis, obviously, would be that both were tempted by darkness in order to help others, and while the father succumbed, the son overcame, redeeming the father in the process. 2. Showing a Jedi Order that had grown too large, complacent, and separated from the "true nature" of the Force. Being able to just prick a kid's finger and determine how attuned he is to the Force based on a microorganism's presence in his blood? Yeah, no. Yoda would've been the great vessel for telling this side story: the Jedi have lose their way, sitting in high ivory towers and all that jazz, but upon realizing this error Yoda exiles himself to Dagobah, where he seeks to go back to the roots of the Force, it's true essence, to relearn what should've been essential truths. Hell, maybe Yoda should've been the voice on the Council who argued that they needed to "go back to basics", but would wind up overruled by circumstances. Neither of these things are done particularly well in the prequels because, again, they're too preoccupied with throwing out some explosions, eye candy, villains with multiple lightsaber blades, blah blah blah...and then jumping to discussions of horridly written political intrigue that just jar the viewer. That will always be my great complaint, beyond the bad direction/writing/acting/etc., that Lucas sought to tell a six movie-story, but never tried to give it any truly cohesive strings to hold it all together and for the audience to really latch onto and want to see develop. Excellent point. The Jedi were ultimately made into powers with people instead of characters with abilities like they were in the original series. In hindsight I'm also disappointed with how one note even their abilities they were. Prior to 99 I had been expecting to see Jedi musicians, builders, healers, designers, engineers. Instead it was guys with lightsabers who can jump high and levitate stuff.
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Post by sludgehammer on Mar 16, 2012 4:01:00 GMT -5
Episode 3 was pretty good because it didn't meander on pointless bullshit like Eps 1 & 2. 3 had the luxury of all the big stuff happening and being the movie in chronological order right before A New Hope
Basically what I'm saying is 1 & 2 are over-written and very wooden, flat films. 3 was more about the emotions of the characters and less about the technicalities and political reasons for them being there. Which is exactly how the original trilogy was.
Perception is reality. We don't need to explain the force to a science or see a dispute between Trade federations and other bullshit. Out of sight out of mind. That stuff doesn't matter to the story or the characters so why even bother? It was all filler and boring world development.
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Post by B'Cup x on Mar 16, 2012 4:08:37 GMT -5
Episode 3 was pretty good because it didn't meander on pointless bulls*** like Eps 1 & 2. 3 had the luxury of all the big stuff happening and being the movie in chronological order right before A New Hope Basically what I'm saying is 1 & 2 are over-written and very wooden, flat films. 3 was more about the emotions of the characters and less about the technicalities and political reasons for them being there. Which is exactly how the original trilogy was. Perception is reality. We don't need to explain the force to a science or see a dispute between Trade federations and other bulls***. Out of sight out of mind. That stuff doesn't matter to the story or the characters so why even bother? It was all filler and boring world development. I dont like episode 3 at all and the reason for that is it creates so many plot holes unanswered that it kind of dicks on the original trilogy. Examples being: R2D2 not losing his crappy jetpacks and (the main one that gets me) Bael Organa making a point to say have the protocol (c3p0) droids memory wiped but ignoring r2, who if anything knows even more. Suggesting that through Hope and Empire, r2 blatently knows about the darth daddy situation yet decides to keep it all to him self. Simply saying droid as oppossed to protocol droid would have stopped this being an issue x
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 5:08:14 GMT -5
the one good line from the prequels was about liberty ending with thunderous aplause, thats all I can think of and I cannot even remember it properly. that and "Ill try spinning, thats a good trick" x My favorite line:
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Post by B'Cup x on Mar 16, 2012 5:28:01 GMT -5
I bloody love Plinkett x
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dav
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Post by dav on Mar 16, 2012 7:23:23 GMT -5
Yoda would've been the great vessel for telling this side story: the Jedi have lose their way, sitting in high ivory towers and all that jazz, but upon realizing this error Yoda exiles himself to Dagobah, where he seeks to go back to the roots of the Force, it's true essence, to relearn what should've been essential truths. Hell, maybe Yoda should've been the voice on the Council who argued that they needed to "go back to basics", but would wind up overruled by circumstances. It was stated in eu things considered in the official canon (even before the prequels) Yoda went to Dagobah to hide from being hunted down by the Empire, and Dagobah specifically because it was the only place in the galaxy that was concentrated enough in the dark side that he could mask himself from detection. Essentially Exiling himself out of necessity due to his failure to prevent the return of the sith empire. Not that Lucas truly cared about retconning things stated in the official canon ... but still Wait, so Yoda hides in the one place int he entire Galaxy that Palpatine would consider looking for him due to the fact it hides the Force? Hell, if I was Emperor, that would have been the first place I'd have carpet bombed to root out the little green bugger.
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darthalexander
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Post by darthalexander on Mar 16, 2012 8:19:44 GMT -5
Some things I missed:
1. Chemistry between the actors. In the original trilogy, it felt like the characters actually cared for each other. In the prequels, it felt like everyone was together only because they were forced to be.
2. A sense of wonder. Introducing the midi-chlorian idea killed a big part of what made Star Wars special.
3. Better writing.
4. More emotion in the lightsaber duels. While the duels looked cool, they didn't have the emotional impact of the duels that the originals did. The two Luke-Vader duels have more impact than anything in the prequels. The Bespin duel is still my favorite one of them all.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 16, 2012 13:14:26 GMT -5
It was stated in eu things considered in the official canon (even before the prequels) Yoda went to Dagobah to hide from being hunted down by the Empire, and Dagobah specifically because it was the only place in the galaxy that was concentrated enough in the dark side that he could mask himself from detection. Essentially Exiling himself out of necessity due to his failure to prevent the return of the sith empire. Not that Lucas truly cared about retconning things stated in the official canon ... but still Wait, so Yoda hides in the one place int he entire Galaxy that Palpatine would consider looking for him due to the fact it hides the Force? Hell, if I was Emperor, that would have been the first place I'd have carpet bombed to root out the little green bugger. I think there were other dark side planets as well where he could have hid. But basically I think it came down to Palpatine didn't care becaue he already beat Yoda...
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Post by xCompackx on Mar 16, 2012 13:53:20 GMT -5
For me, the biggest complaint I have about the prequels is just how political it all is. I can forgive the acting, the podracing, all of it but it's just too much to have to sit through a 2 hour movie and be bombarded with talk about "Senates and takeovers". I wont say anything about how poorly directed 1 & 2 were (I loved 3), but it baffles me to think that George Lucas actually thought we would be interested in hearing about the Star Wars galaxy settles disputes.
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Mar 16, 2012 17:41:54 GMT -5
the one good line from the prequels was about liberty ending with thunderous aplause, thats all I can think of and I cannot even remember it properly. that and "Ill try spinning, thats a good trick" x I believe the quote(From Padme) was: "So this is how democracy dies. With thunderous applause."
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Mar 16, 2012 19:05:38 GMT -5
I would have vastly prefered that the Clone Wars had started in the first movie, carried through the second and ended in the third. That would have created a far more interesting backdrop.
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 16, 2012 23:50:02 GMT -5
Personally I think that Lucas realised that the Star Wars prequels were going to make a fortune regardless of the quality of the script, acting and directing, and that's why all three elements were so weak. They didn't need to be strong. From a business point of view, that's fine. From a quality point of view, it brought down the level of Star Wars.
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