|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 19, 2011 20:19:56 GMT -5
That pic of Punk and Bryan with their belts and the following photoshop made me think: why aren't Orton and Cena regarded in that same "feel good story" sense? Before they became world champions, all four guys have had periods where they were booked to look rather ineffective against upper card guys at the time.
I know Orton's got connections through Cowboy Bob, but honestly, that should have been made irrelevant when he went into those thumbtacks (topless, mind you) against Mick Foley. Cena was in the same position as Zack Ryder in 2003 during the midst of his Word Life gimmick, and like Zack he shot up the card because the fans demanded it. Neither guy was "forced" into their position the way Bobby Lashley was.
I'm not trying to crap on Punk and Bryan's achievements, because they're incredibly talented and deserving of their spots, but it's not as if their predecessors were just handed everything.
|
|
Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
|
Post by Cronant on Dec 19, 2011 20:21:32 GMT -5
Indy work.
Basically thats the difference.
|
|
|
|
Post by YeahYeahYeahYeahYeah on Dec 19, 2011 20:22:13 GMT -5
Probably because we've been given more time to grow tired of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by joebob27 on Dec 19, 2011 20:22:31 GMT -5
Because that was what, 7 years ago, for Orton and 6 years ago for Cena?
|
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Dec 19, 2011 20:22:48 GMT -5
I think it was just a different time. The Social Media era allows us a better glimpse into the lives and personalities of our favorite wrestlers. It lets us form a more personal connection to them. It humanizes them.
|
|
|
|
Post by King Boo on Dec 19, 2011 20:23:33 GMT -5
If I had to, I'd venture to guess that Punk and Bryan were on the indie circuit a lot longer. There's more of that homegrown, that's our guy connection because a lot of people's first exposure to them wasn't in WWE, it was in ROH and such. The bonds to these guys were formed pre-WWE so when they make it to the top of the mountain in the "big time" it feels more personal.
|
|
|
|
Post by Piccolo on Dec 19, 2011 20:50:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I think a big part of it is getting to know people when they're wrestling in smaller promotions that feel more intimate/feel like there's more of a wrestler-fan connection. (And as someone else said, the social media we have these days fosters that connection even more.) There's also the aspect of the money disparity between WWE and the indies... it kind of feels like if someone works a really dangerous job for relative chump change, their passion for it must be pretty strong.
That said, I'm pretty sure everyone WAS really excited about Cena and Orton when they made it...? At least about Cena. I guess I'm not really buying the original premise. But even if I did, it would totally make sense to me that there's more of a "home team" feeling for guys who made their names in smaller promotions and then made it to the big time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wolf Hurricane on Dec 19, 2011 20:52:56 GMT -5
Probably because we've been given more time to grow tired of them. Pretty much this. Let Punk stay the exact same and dominate the main card for a good two years, at least, and see how fast people start clamoring for a new guy. Remember, people loved when Cena became champ, and for a while, he was getting massive pops. Then they overexposed him and failed to evolve him, and here we are, with people happy at the mere fact that he wasn't on a PPV. |
|
|
|
Post by Manute Bol on Dec 19, 2011 20:58:48 GMT -5
CM Punk and Daniel Bryan got a ton of great exposure from being in ROH during the company's peak years.
The same way ECW's glory years birthed The Dudleyz, Raven, Sabu, Tommy Dreamer, Shane Douglas, Taz, The Sandman, Rob Van Dam and so many others, ROH had a similar effect. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Samoa Joe, Nigel McGuinness, Low-Ki, Tyler Black, Chris Hero, Claudio Castagnoli, Alex Shelley and many others are part of a special little piece of wrestling history. Luckily for them, that special little piece means a lot to a very vocal, influential group of wrestling fans. These wrestlers, like the ECW generation before them, mean a whole lot to a good number of wrestling fans.
Randy Orton and John Cena really have no "roots" prior to their WWE careers. It's much more personal with the ECW and ROH alumni.
|
|
Massive G
Hank Scorpio
yo hago esto
Posts: 6,224
|
Post by Massive G on Dec 19, 2011 21:02:09 GMT -5
I think it just feels more improbable that two guys who were so well known to wrestling fans outside the WWE would both hold the big belts in WWE, much less at the same time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 19, 2011 21:24:02 GMT -5
CM Punk and Daniel Bryan got a ton of great exposure from being in ROH during the company's peak years. The same way ECW's glory years birthed The Dudleyz, Raven, Sabu, Tommy Dreamer, Shane Douglas, Taz, The Sandman, Rob Van Dam and so many others, ROH had a similar effect. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Samoa Joe, Nigel McGuinness, Low-Ki, Tyler Black, Chris Hero, Claudio Castagnoli, Alex Shelley and many others are part of a special little piece of wrestling history. Luckily for them, that special little piece means a lot to a very vocal, influential group of wrestling fans. These wrestlers, like the ECW generation before them, mean a whole lot to a good number of wrestling fans. Randy Orton and John Cena really have no "roots" prior to their WWE careers. It's much more personal with the ECW and ROH alumni. I can understand that- it's the idea some fans out there have that Cena and Orton are somehow "undeserving" because they weren't part of something similar that I have a problem with. My main point is that all four men sacrificed a lot. |
|
|
|
Post by IMPRESSIVE knightwing1047 on Dec 19, 2011 21:32:00 GMT -5
Cena (and Orton to a lesser degree) are miles away from where they were when they started. People loved the edgier Cena with the freestyle rap, throwback jerseys, "Word Life" theme, etc., because it was different. MSG erupted when he won his first US Championship. Cena became the tried and true company man and HAD to water down. I think to a certain degree his original core fanbase feels like he turned on them.
I think people really want to be able to feel like they can cheer for Cena. I think back to the Nexus feud. Everyone got on board with him and remember the pop and the way this board exploded when he freestyled against the Rock a few months ago? We like the original Cena.
Who knows, 6-7 years from now we may be having this same discussion about Ryder/Punk/Bryan.
|
|
|
|
Post by Piccolo on Dec 19, 2011 21:55:40 GMT -5
CM Punk and Daniel Bryan got a ton of great exposure from being in ROH during the company's peak years. The same way ECW's glory years birthed The Dudleyz, Raven, Sabu, Tommy Dreamer, Shane Douglas, Taz, The Sandman, Rob Van Dam and so many others, ROH had a similar effect. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Samoa Joe, Nigel McGuinness, Low-Ki, Tyler Black, Chris Hero, Claudio Castagnoli, Alex Shelley and many others are part of a special little piece of wrestling history. Luckily for them, that special little piece means a lot to a very vocal, influential group of wrestling fans. These wrestlers, like the ECW generation before them, mean a whole lot to a good number of wrestling fans. Randy Orton and John Cena really have no "roots" prior to their WWE careers. It's much more personal with the ECW and ROH alumni. I can understand that- it's the idea some fans out there have that Cena and Orton are somehow "undeserving" because they weren't part of something similar that I have a problem with. My main point is that all four men sacrificed a lot. I've never in my life heard that argument, to be honest. I've heard criticism of the extent of their dominance relative to their abilities at various times, but I've never heard anyone say that they were undeserving of ever having won a championship, or that they don't work hard or whatever. (Well, Orton had his wild child phase, but I haven't heard any behavioral criticism of him in a VERY long time. And I've never heard a single criticism of Cena's hard work.) |
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 19, 2011 21:59:14 GMT -5
I can understand that- it's the idea some fans out there have that Cena and Orton are somehow "undeserving" because they weren't part of something similar that I have a problem with. My main point is that all four men sacrificed a lot. I've never in my life heard that argument, to be honest. I've heard criticism of the extent of their dominance relative to their abilities at various times, but I've never heard anyone say that they were undeserving of ever having won a championship, or that they don't work hard or whatever. (Well, Orton had his wild child phase, but I haven't heard any behavioral criticism of him in a VERY long time. And I've never heard a single criticism of Cena's hard work.) Let's just say that I didn't always block out YouTube comments in the past. |
|
|
|
Post by Savage Gambino on Dec 19, 2011 22:23:14 GMT -5
Side note, while we're on the subject of comparisons: with last night's win, both Punk and Bryan have become world champion in their second year in the company. Not bad for people that were, on multiple occasions, referred to as "buried" or "not utilized correctly", especially in comparison to Cena winning the WWE Championship in his third year, Edge in his seventh, and Mark Henry well over ten years after his 1996 television debut.
|
|
|
|
Post by Piccolo on Dec 19, 2011 22:38:29 GMT -5
Even in hindsight, the firing of DBD was not a correct utilization of his skills. I feel absolutely comfortable saying that.
|
|
|
|
Post by crimsonwolf on Dec 19, 2011 22:41:22 GMT -5
They've been in the title picture for what, 6-7 years now? They're 11 and 9 time champs respectively. It's kinda hard to get that "feel good moment" because of oversaturation.
|
|
Tiger Maskooo
Samurai Cop
I cant hear you over the sound of how much im tiger masking
Posts: 2,384 
|
Post by Tiger Maskooo on Dec 19, 2011 23:20:45 GMT -5
Because combined theyre like 30 time world champions and theyve hardly been booked weak like those guys.
I mean cena and orton were always ovw prospects given countless opprotunities.
|
|
Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
|
Post by Cronant on Dec 19, 2011 23:22:02 GMT -5
Because combined theyre like 30 time world champions and theyve hardly been booked weak like those guys. I mean cena and orton were always ovw prospects given countless opprotunities. Punk and Bryan have been given some big opportunities early on too. Being an OVW prospect should have little bearing. |
|
|
|
Post by diegorivera on Dec 19, 2011 23:27:56 GMT -5
Cena and Orton were pretty clearly being touted as the big stars of the then new era, six or so years ago. The E really built itself around them.
No such build was given to Bryan at the least, and Punk had to threaten to quit to get anyone behind him. So they've had to make this special in their own way.
We'll see if it takes. We still need to see if Bryan's reign is treated as a fluke.
|
|
